Originally posted by Damborgson
thank you for that vivid example. Its fraction. Thats his style. Just look at the Galactus Odin fight. empty speech bubble or "..." is his way of saying KO. So burning up in the atmosphere in your opinion does not wake hulk up? Your trying to hard man...
It didnt wake Diana up when Superman knocked her from the sun to Earth. Reentry isn't nothing for someone like Hulk...he doesn't feel heat. There are times where they followed the law of space and being unable to talk. That Rulk example isn't a good example. We have no telling where they were during those scans.
Originally posted by carver9would you consider that maybe the damage wasgreater than that which hulk received? Wtf? What do you mean he doesn't feel heat? Cmon man........................rulk jumped up through the clouds said there was zero gravity and that he had to hold his breath........where do you think they were?
It didnt wake Diana up when Superman knocked her from the sun to Earth. Reentry isn't nothing for someone like Hulk...he doesn't feel heat. There are times where they followed the law of space and being unable to talk. That Rulk example isn't a good example. We have no telling where they were during those scans.
Originally posted by carver9ok? According to you he doesn't feel that? Yeesh....
Reentry does nothing to Hulk.http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkreentry1.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkreentry2.jpg
Originally posted by Damborgson
ok? According to you he doesn't feel that? Yeesh....
Warp core bomb. Hulk didn't even register the heat. Hulk didn't feel reentry and your space argument is nonsense.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkdurability.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkdurability1.jpg
Originally posted by carver9he was also burned
Warp core bomb. Hulk didn't even register the heat. Hulk didn't feel reentry and your space argument is nonsense.http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkdurability.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/
Hulk/hulkdurability1.jpg
Originally posted by Damborgson
he was also burned
by lava in that same series. I wonder if he can feel heat.... 😂 you get proved wrong and my argument becomes nonsense...mkay. I think we are done here. These arguments on your part are getting worse as the debate continues. Later
His hair got burned. I showed you a scan of reentry not doing anything to him...he smiled the entire way down. He was hit by a warp core bomb that did nothing to him. What more do you want?
Originally posted by Damborgson
I think we are startong to understand each other bro. 😛
http://img125.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=95401_AA-WWH02-020-21_122_619lo.jpg
Originally posted by zopzopI don't understand the pertinence of this fact. Rulk wasn't using his absorption powers against Namor underwater either. You've made an unextraordinary statement of fact.
Regarding the Rulk/Angrir fight, you forgot to mention that Rulk wasn't using his energy absorption powers for fear of being stuck in Rulk form. So he wasn't using all his powers vs a bloodlusted opponent.And Namor underwater isn't' invincible or all powerful. I remember that FF issue where they found Jean's cocoon underwater and attempted to retrieve it. It left off some energy attacks and all the Avengers including Namor were frozen in place and unable to push forward. Hercules muscled his way through and reached the cocoon. Herc > Namor underwater (in terms of strength at least).
When underwater, he's kicked the crap out of Rulk, Savage Hulk, Iron Man, Dr. Doom, etc. He gets a huge boost underwater. You could argue that Namor underwater is more powerful than Hercules because Hercules has never defeated Savage Hulk outright whereas Namor has (twice) while underwater. But again, these are (or should be) unextraordinary statements of fact to us.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusOk, you have a point. At the same time, Namor underwater beat Savage Hulk straight-up without having to resort to exploiting his need for air. Namor is really impressive underwater. I'll leave it at that, lest we trigger carver9's gamma sense.
If there was ever an example of why ABC logic can be horrible, this is it. Here's there fight:As you can see, Namor sucker punched Rulk and destroyed his breathing apparatus. He then attacked him a few times while he desperately tried to get to the surface.
On the other hand, he went toe to toe with Nerkkod who has no need for air and got his ass handed to him. I'd wager he'd get wrecked by Angrir as well.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusI disagree. Nerkkod's got better feats. I'll take Thor's statement for what it is, a statement.
Substitute Nerkkod for Angrir and the fight wouldn't have gone any different. I don't think either of the two is more powerful. Thor even referred to Angrir and Nul as the Serpent's two greatest fear mongers. Take that as you will.I....I don't even know how to respond to that.
You have to be trolling here. You can't possibly be suggesting that Fraction wrote that fight with Angrir being weakened?
Not only is that some horrible reasoning, but it sets you down one hell of a slippery slope
I'm suggesting it because it's possible and that it makes sense to me. And I don't think it's a slippery slope. You'd agree that they're not all as powerful or invulnerable as each other. And, you'd agree that at least two of them have definitively been shown to weaken over time (Kuurth and Nerkkod). And you'd agree (although maybe you didn't make this argument), that Thor himself could possibly have not been 100% having stormed the Serpent's lair and being pimpslapped back to Earth.
So I don't see any reason to equalize them. I agree that they're all Thor-level, but I don't take this generalization so seriously that I'm compelled to utterly homogenize them or consider their power level to be static. In the end, this is all slightly off-topic. Simply put, I found what Nerkkod did was more impressive than what Angrir did. Hence, my opinion.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't understand the pertinence of this fact. Rulk wasn't using his absorption powers against Namor underwater either. You've made an unextraordinary statement of fact.When underwater, he's kicked the crap out of Rulk, Savage Hulk, Iron Man, Dr. Doom, etc. He gets a huge boost underwater. You could argue that Namor underwater is more powerful than Hercules because Hercules has never defeated Savage Hulk outright whereas Namor has (twice) while underwater. But again, these are (or should be) unextraordinary statements of fact to us. Ok, you have a point. At the same time, Namor underwater beat Savage Hulk straight-up without having to resort to exploiting his need for air. Namor is really impressive underwater. I'll leave it at that, lest we trigger carver9's gamma sense. I disagree. Nerkkod's got better feats. I'll take Thor's statement for what it is, a statement.
A) I merely pointed out that Rulk wasn't using all the powers at his disposal during the Worthy Thing fight.
B) When they found the Jean/Phoenix cocoon underwater, all the Avengers, Namor included, were held powerless and unable to advance, EXCEPT Herc. He muscled through the energy and got to the cocoon.
Neither of those two points are lies or exaggerations so I don't know what you keep attacking me when I bring them up.
^ I similarly don't know what you're trying to attack with your points. Both Namor underwater and Angrir owned Rulk. And both times Rulk didn't use his energy absorption powers. So what's the point of mentioning his non-use of energy absorption powers against Angrir? Nothing, it seems.
Having no real recollection of the event you're referring to, I'm compelled to accept your account of it. Even so, I again don't see the point. Neither you, nor I can point out a situation that definitively proves Namor underwater is stronger than Hercules or vice-versa. That's because situations exist on both sides that would tend to prove either position, e.g., Namor underwater defeating Hulk straight-up. So what's the point of bringing up just one of those sides? Nothing, it seems.
I'm not attacking you. Just characterizing your two assertions as completely unextraordinary. And that they were seemingly, posted to counter (what I thought to be) my own completely unextraordinary assertions, i.e., Namor underwater is really powerful.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Having no real recollection of the event you're referring to, I'm compelled to accept your account of it. Even so, I again don't see the point. Neither you, nor I can point out a situation that definitively proves Namor underwater is stronger than Hercules or vice-versa. That's because situations exist on both sides that would tend to prove either position, e.g., Namor underwater defeating Hulk straight-up. So what's the point of bringing up just one of those sides? Nothing, it seems.
Here :
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Avengers263a.jpg
Gotten from here (comparing Herc and Namor)
http://herochat.com/forum/index.php?topic=211938.0;wap2
^ Thanks. I'm curious whether that came at a time where Namor was constantly morose and doubting himself though. He went through one of those phases around that time.
If you're interested in further discussion on this (as that second link seems to suggest), you might be interested in namorsubby's position here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12657733&highlight=namor+hercules+underwater#post12657733
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ok, you have a point. At the same time, Namor underwater beat Savage Hulk straight-up without having to resort to exploiting his need for air. Namor is really impressive underwater. I'll leave it at that, lest we trigger carver9's gamma sense.
That is true but I'd argue that Rulk is above the standard Savage Hulk. At least that seems to be Bendis' opinion with Loeb whispering into his ear.
Also while Namor fought Hulk to a double knock out, Angrir utterly wrecked Rulk, beating him to near death IIRC. Haha, fair enough.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I disagree. Nerkkod's got better feats. I'll take Thor's statement for what it is, a statement.
Nerkkod does have more feats if nothing else but I have very little doubt that the battle would have been written any differently if he was in Angrir's place. I really don't think Nerkkod was intended to be more powerful and if he was, the gap imo is small at best.
It is a statement but I think it gives a good indication of what Fraction intended.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm suggesting it because it's possible and that it makes sense to me. And I don't think it's a slippery slope. You'd agree that they're not all as powerful or invulnerable as each other. And, you'd agree that at least two of them have definitively been shown to weaken over time (Kuurth and Nerkkod). And you'd agree (although maybe you didn't make this argument), that Thor himself could possibly have not been 100% having stormed the Serpent's lair and being pimpslapped back to Earth.So I don't see any reason to equalize them. I agree that they're all Thor-level, but I don't take this generalization so seriously that I'm compelled to utterly homogenize them or consider their power level to be static. In the end, this is all slightly off-topic. Simply put, I found what Nerkkod did was more impressive than what Angrir did. Hence, my opinion.
It's possible but isn't likely and I have trouble believing that you think the Spider-Man scene justifies the notion that he was worn down. It is a slippery slope because if we use that type of justification, based on one's intent, you can apply that logic to numerous scenes to justify showings that people aren't fond of. I do agree that Kuurth was weakened (I'm not sure why you think Nerkkod was) but that was because of an explicit loss of power. That's also possible but I think there's very little chance that Fraction wrote that scene with Thor or either of the Worthy not being in top shape or close to it.
Most of the Serpent's chosen battled various foes across multiple books and I don't think any of them were weakened simply due to the number of battles. It might make sense using real life logic but there's a reason this is fiction. This type of thinking is a small step away from arguing that Thor wasn't in top shape against opponent A because at the same time that week he fought opponent B.
I think it's pretty clear that while in the same class, they don't have a static power level. As such, generalizing them wouldn't be right but at the same time I don't think any more thought other than a general ranking was given to how they match up power wise. Imo, Juggernaut/Hulk were considered to be the most powerful with beings like Thing/Attuma being a level below and that's about it. Everything else was just details that I doubt someone like Fraction would give a shit about if his history is any indication.
Anyways, agree to disagree if nothing else.
