Originally posted by DARTH POWERActually he was given amazing challenge in the OT. Kenobi was no pushover for Vader, Luke seriously pushed him in ESB, and he was legitimately beating by him in RotJ. All G-canon fact.
To be fair he was never given much of a challenge in the OT. An old hermit, and a farmboy. No real need to go all out.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Actually he was given amazing challenge in the OT. Kenobi was no pushover for Vader, Luke seriously pushed him in ESB, and he was legitimately beating by him in RotJ. All G-canon fact.
Tbh I dnt think the ESB and ROTJ fights looked that bad. Certainly not any worse than Mace vs Palpatine. Plus Vader showed some nice power in ESB: Force Choking over the view screen and deflecting Blaster fire casually with his hand.
As for ANH yeah that was just bad. What can you do it was made in '77, but according to Wise old Lucas it was a bad fight because Ben was an Old man now and Vader a Machine..
Sooo... Make what you want of that.. Il just imagine they were both much better at using the Force than at Fencing, but chose to engage in a Lightsaber duel instead, you know for old times sake.
Actually I plateaued a while back, it's just hard to communicate degree through text. I think it has something to do with the advent of The Old Republic singularity, where everything in Star Wars merges into one, unimaginably horrible fanservice moneygrab.
And I don't get to be a part of it because I'm a bitter old sod who refuses to let go of the "good 'ol days".
I'm still riding this high:
THE ORDER IS AFFORDED A COMICALLY REVERED POSITION IN THE MINDS OF THE MASSES, TO THE POINT THAT JEDI ARE BELIEVED INVINCIBLE (ADMITTEDLY BY A 6 YEAR OLD BUT GO WITH IT) I THINK THAT THE UNDERBELLY OF PARASITISM LENDS SOME OF THE ONLY CANON DISSONANCE BETWEEN THE JEDI IDEAL AND [COLOR=PURPLE]EXECUTION AFTER ALL IT WAS THAT SAME IDEALISTIC COMPLACENCY THAT ULTIMATELY LED TO THE DOWNFALL OF THE ORDER[/COLOR]
Originally posted by ares834
The ANH fight's slow pace had nothing to do with it being made in '77. Rather it was because Lucas originally intended to have the lightsaber be incredibly heavy and difficult to use. As for ESB and RotJ, those are certainly my favorite fights in all the films.
It doesnt really make sense that the ANH fight was bad because the Lightsabers were supposed to be heavy considering how strong Vader was shown to be.
Im guessing it was more down to a limited budget and time to get the original movie done. But your right ESB and ROTJ fights certainly redeemed Vader. They are actually superior to some of the PT fights imo.
Unfortunately Old Ben got no such redemption, so we might have to just chalk that down to his age (which is actually what Lucas has said in the ANH commentary).
On the other hand if we are to equate power to how spectacular a fight looks, then Mace and Palpatine would be pretty weak, so we obviously cant do that.
To clarify, the fight scene in ANH was so horrible because the weapons themselves were flimsy and attached via cords which in turn powered the rotation of reflective surfaces that gave the weapons their "glow". Prowse actually hit Alec Guinness by mistake and sent him flying, so they had to tone down the fight so that Alec wouldn't get manhandled and also so that the jury-rigged sabers wouldn't break.
So that's your real explanation as to why the fight sucked. If you want to add a bunch of "in-universe" bullshit like Obi-Wan was too old (even though Dooku was much much older) then that's your opinion.
Honestly, I never saw why people found the fights to be less impressive in ESB and RotJ. Specifically since the Mace Windu and Sidious duel is far slower and less flashy. The only duels that were noticably faster than ESB, at least for me, was the Maul duel and Anakin vs Kenobi. All the other duels are simply more flashy in other worlds they twirl their sabers around.
Originally posted by ares834
Honestly, I never saw why people found the fights to be less impressive in ESB and RotJ. Specifically since the Mace Windu and Sidious duel is far slower and less flashy. The only duels that were noticably faster than ESB, at least for me, was the Maul duel and Anakin vs Kenobi. All the other duels are simply more flashy in other worlds they twirl their sabers around.
There's truth to this. OT fights were more practical and better on atmosphere and dramatics. ANH was simply pathetic, but it wasn't meant to be a show-stealer.
The fight between Mace and Sidious was ruined by the fact that GL at the last second decided to dispense with subbing in trained experts. I personally would have rather seen that, than two non-experts slowly wading around each other, relying on close-ups to take away from the fact that they fight like two kids with pool noodles.