Originally posted by carver9
With the same weapon that has been killing Celestials in one hit. 👆Gold point.
I was focusing in the armor, which you'd have to prove it has been retconned into every previous Apocalypse showing ever. Good luck with that.Not even considering the mjolnirless Thor.
The only thing making you hype Apoc is that he punked Hulk like a child 😛
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
A young thor without mjolnir, battle experience and right temper. One could argue physical strenght as well.
That same 'inexperienced' and 'unarmed' Thor was holding his own with Gorr with a regular unenchanted battle hammer.
He wasn't modern Thor, but he certainly was a capable Thor.
Originally posted by Bentley
I was focusing in the armor, which you'd have to prove it has been retconned into every previous Apocalypse showing ever. Good luck with that.Not even considering the mjolnirless Thor.
That fight against Prince Thor took place in the 11th century AD. A majority of Apocalypse's feats take place afterwards (for example, he met Sinister in Victorian England, 19th Century), chronologically, and in his possession of Celestial armor, as well as his possessing the Celestial Armor at the time he created Exodus, which was also in the 12th Century. It's not a leap in logic to deduce that the armor that Apocalypse possessed in the 11th Century when battling Thor was the same armor he possessed when he created Exodus and later in the 19th Century when he employs Sinister.
Originally posted by MF DELPH
That same 'inexperienced' and 'unarmed' Thor was holding his own with Gorr with a regular unenchanted battle hammer.He wasn't modern Thor, but he certainly was a capable Thor.
That fight against Prince Thor took place in the 11th century AD. A majority of Apocalypse's feats take place afterwards (for example, he met Sinister in Victorian England, 19th Century), chronologically, and in his possession of Celestial armor, as well as his possessing the Celestial Armor at the time he created Exodus, which was also in the 12th Century. It's not a leap in logic to deduce that the armor that Apocalypse possessed in the 11th Century when battling Thor was the same armor he possessed when he created Exodus and later in the 19th Century when he employs Sinister.
Future Gorr =/= past Gorr in powerlevel. The same lightning that forced Gorr into that cave, would've been laughable to him around the time he was fighting all 3 thors.
Originally posted by MF DELPH
It's not new armor, it's just that the origin and capabilities/magnitude of his armor have been better explained and fleshed out. Apocalypse has always had Celestial Armor since interfacing with Ship. It was just never stated just how powerful it actually was until recent updates depicting it as being granted by the Celestials in his role as their agent. He's essentially been re-established now as the Celestial's 'herald' of sorts.
When has Apocalypse ever had true Celestial Armor? He's always had different defenses in place adapted from Celestial techonlogy but he's armor has never been even the equivalent of a Celestial shell and indestructible.
This new reveal while cool isn't a retroactive retcon as the armor appeared and was cut down in that very same story. This might be how Remender wants to treat Apocalypse's armor in general but until we get another appearance, it's just the one.
Needless to say I disagree. Apocalypse's armor has always been Celestial tech based. Now, granted, in more recent stories Apocalypse's role and relationship with the Celestials as their agent/'gardener' has been introduced and more fleshed out (first introduced in a fuller context in the Blood of Apocalypse arc. Before that Apocalypse had been depicted as just co-opting Ship and created the armor himself from Celestial tech over centuries of study), but I disagree that this particular armor was a one off as Apocalypse integrated his body into the armor prior to the Gorr Arc, and that origin (Apocalypse finding ship and creating the armor) has in fact been retconned via the Blood of Apocalypse Arc to being that the Celestial's actually gifted Ship to Apocalypse and took him into their employ, further expanded recently in Age of Ultron/Uncanny Avengers to being that an "Apocalypse" is basically the 'herald' of the Celestials and that his role is essential to them and their plans for Earth, with the armor he received (and which Holocaust/Genocide was going to receive until the Twins intervened and interrupted the ritual) being part of the christening of a new Celestial Gardener. This new info just gives us more background on the armor's origins and scope. It's still the same armor Apocalypse had since receiving Ship, which has now been retconned to being given to Apocalypse on purpose.
Originally posted by MF DELPHYou bring up fair points, but I'm more of the inclination to take a wait and see approach. And that reticence isn't simply resistance to the sweeping radical nature of this retcon.
Needless to say I disagree. Apocalypse's armor has always been Celestial tech based. Now, granted, in more recent stories Apocalypse's role and relationship with the Celestials as their agent/'gardener' has been introduced and more fleshed out (first introduced in a fuller context in the Blood of Apocalypse arc. Before that Apocalypse had been depicted as just co-opting Ship and created the armor himself from Celestial tech over centuries of study), but I disagree that this particular armor was a one off as Apocalypse integrated his body into the armor prior to the Gorr Arc, and that origin (Apocalypse finding ship and creating the armor) has in fact been retconned via the Blood of Apocalypse Arc to being that the Celestial's actually gifted Ship to Apocalypse and took him into their employ, further expanded recently in Age of Ultron/Uncanny Avengers to being that an "Apocalypse" is basically the 'herald' of the Celestials and that his role is essential to them and their plans for Earth, with the armor he received (and which Holocaust/Genocide was going to receive until the Twins intervened and interrupted the ritual) being part of the christening of a new Celestial Gardener. This new info just gives us more background on the armor's origins and scope. It's still the same armor Apocalypse had since receiving Ship, which has now been retconned to being given to Apocalypse on purpose.
It's more than possible that there have been several Apocalypse armors. And that not all of them were specifically gifted by the Celestials to be virtually invulnerable. The one Evan wore at the end of the Uncanny X-Force run given to him by Daken and Sabretooth, for example.
Originally posted by MF DELPHMaybe the reason is because Thor had irreparably damaged his original Celestial-gifted armor and had no choice but to utilize inferior replacements from that point forward. I think that's what Rage.Of.Olympus is getting at.
Agreed.That's reasonable.
I'm still of the school of thought that Apocalypse himself would have no rational reason to employ less powerful armor, but I can't categorically say it's not possible.
Well, that's actually not the case though. Apocalypse has full control of his atomic structure and is a techno-organic being. He'd be able to mend himself from the wounds in time and the armor is integrated into his body (he's not like Ironman). He blew himself up to drop the X-Men and reformed from it on panel, as well as separating his head from his body, and forming holes in his body and morphing around incoming attacks. A big axe wound to the chest shouldn't matter in the long run to a techno-organic metamorph with a healing factor and molecular control. At least not in my opinion.
Originally posted by Galan007Builder fleet wing in Infinity #3.
ODG, what is the throwback to Michael Jackson character in your avatar, destroying in your sig?
Originally posted by MF DELPHBut we have seen Evan wearing and then removing an Apocalypse armor exactly as Tony Stark would the Iron Man armor though.
Well, that's actually not the case though. Apocalypse has full control of his atomic structure and is a techno-organic being. He'd be able to mend himself from the wounds in time and the armor is integrated into his body (he's not like Ironman).
Originally posted by MF DELPHBut you're assuming that this entire time, he's been manipulating and reforming his original bonified Celestial armor. An argument which hasn't been settled yet definitively.
He blew himself up to drop the X-Men and reformed from it on panel, as well as separating his head from his body, and forming holes in his body and morphing around incoming attacks.
Originally posted by MF DELPHIf that were the case, Apocalypse wouldn't have had to flee from Thor. And Celestials probably wouldn't be dying like flies off-panel.
A big axe wound to the chest shouldn't matter in the long run to a techno-organic metamorph with a healing factor and molecular control. At least not in my opinion.
Not necessarily. Apocalypse could have just retreated and recovered (that battle was in the 11th Century). I can't say definitively that the armor he was wearing in the 12th Century when he fought Sersi and created Exodus was the exact same set but it hasn't been depicted otherwise.
As for Evan, who was a clone, he never received the armor or merged with it via the Transmode Virus, and also, unlike the original Apocalypse, as was shown in Blood of Apocalypse when Cable dropped some of the original Apocalypse's blood into a tub of blood and organs and he reformed, the techno-organic virus which the original Apocalypse had integrated into his body allowed him to overwrite genetic material and recreate his body. Evan isn't En Sabah Nur and didn't have the Transmode virus, so Evan would be like Ironman putting on a suit. En Sabah Nur, on the other hand, actually merged with his suit and made it part of his body. In the in comic chronological timeline Apocalypse became techno-organic in Ancient Egypt in a fight with Cable prior to receiving and interfacing with Ship (I think it was in Fantastic Four 19 or Cable #8, can't remember which one off the top of my head). Anyway, Evan and Original Apocalypse aren't the same animal.