Kain vs. Samus Aran
I notice this is perhaps the one Kain thread that hasn't been done yet. There was one before which had Samus and Kain it, but it also had Mewtwo and a few other people. But I digress, this is here now, so the rules be thus:
1. Standard Samus, with no Eleventh Hour weapons or Hypermode, but otherwise all upgrades Vs. Full Power Kain, including spells, weapons, and items.
2. Full Power Samus Vs. Full Power Kain.
Let's see how far it goes.
Plasma Beam, for reference. Prime version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0w8r9Y-CKw#t=7m18s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5H0RA0rGug#t=45s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5H0RA0rGug#t=3m28s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5H0RA0rGug#t=6m31s
Also, Light Beam, which is sort of like the plasma beam but with better effect against stuff vulnerable to light. Like, say, Vampires.
As I said in the other thread I dont have much patience for anything other than Skyrim with my free time atm but if you want to argue this, please list a couple of the most powerful weapons and an actual cutscene/canon feat for the power of it please.
Also only fledlings are vulnerable to sunlight so light beam is meaningless if thats all it does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b88gt2LNyT8#t=4m28s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LMgo0dv_i4#t=6m8s
Some Nova Beam stuff.
Originally posted by Burning Thought
As I said in the other thread I dont have much patience for anything other than Skyrim with my free time atm but if you want to argue this, please list a couple of the most powerful weapons and an actual cutscene/canon feat for the power of it please.
Are you implying that the plasma beam cannot actually vaporize Space Pirates, melt metal and burn robots to molten slag? You certainly seem to be implying it.
Originally posted by Burning Thought.
Excuse me ? cutscenes are hte only canon? again, your annoying trolling of silly bugger where you pretend not to understand canon despite being told so many times.
Oops hypocrisy.
Originally posted by Burning Thought
Also only fledlings are vulnerable to sunlight so light beam is meaningless if thats all it does.
If you didn't notice, it also sets things on fire and vaporizes them. I highly doubt an older vampire would be immune to a more focused/intense blast of light in any case. Heck, Raziel's Sunlight Glyph still affects adult vampires. The Light Beam would be especially effective, given that it's specifically designed to kill beings of darkness.
Hmmm. Strongest weapons, though? Nah, I think I'll just go with what I expect to be the most problematic for Kain. Well, I suppose we can start with Power Bombs, which is one of her strongest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hltTCKocko#t=8m8s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-kVICDyWqA#t=9m10s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31SExgk5fiY#t=5m50s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh2lfYJ-xQs#t=4m58s
What's Kain's ice resistance?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMz9noXASiQ#t=10m16s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY6x0L1AHZQ#t=7m34s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE0WZLJ2jIY#t=5m58s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfCgVGh8cy4#t=9m48s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKQa7rDY7L8#t=2m23s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBflWvk2GIY#t=1m31s
Dark Beam, same as the Ice Beam except it traps things in dark energy instead of ice. And you can still shatter them with missiles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSs8hSU8-PA#t=2m28s
Maybe I'll get more later; that's enough for now, right?
Originally posted by The Scenario
Are you implying that the plasma beam cannot actually vaporize Space Pirates, melt metal and burn robots to molten slag? You certainly seem to be implying it.
He's asking you to not be dishonest and back up everything you say. It's a common courtesy debaters are expected to show to each other; I see no implication regarding anyones capabilities.
Oops hypocrisy.
As I said in the other thread I dont have much patience for anything other than Skyrim with my free time atm but if you want to argue this, please list a couple of the most powerful weapons and an actual cutsceneslashcanon feat for the power of it please.
Obvs he's not asking for only cutscenes.
Please, I understand that it's okay and probably even encouraged to make fun of BT because he's unpopular, just like how it's perfectly okay in this part of the forum to talk shit about conservatives, religious people and republicans because they're "morally bad people", but can we please keep the kiddo ad hominem to ourselves? At the very least, if you're going to antagonize the guy, do so with an actual valid point.
He's asking you to not be dishonest and back up everything you say. It's a common courtesy debaters are expected to show to each other; I see no implication regarding anyones capabilities.Obvs he's not asking for only cutscenes.
Yes, and where exactly did I fail to provide evidence before he asked? Seeing as I had already posted several videos of the plasma beam, I'm afraid I felt a little slighted when they were ignored and BT asked for an "actual" cutscene or canon source. In that context, the question, along with the word "actual," implies that the feats I posted are not canon, doesn't it?
If not, I apologize for an overreaction.
Please, I understand that it's okay and probably even encouraged to make fun of BT because he's unpopular, just like how it's perfectly okay in this part of the forum to talk shit about conservatives, religious people and republicans because they're "morally bad people", but can we please keep the kiddo ad hominem to ourselves? At the very least, if you're going to antagonize the guy, do so with an actual valid point.
I think I do have a valid point, though. I realize I may have responded a bit harshly, and I apologize for that.
EDIT: Whether trolling or not, he's got a point. I'll be getting my **** together now.
A lot of your evidence consists of shooting actual enemies within the game though, damage to enemies or how long it takes to destroy them is a hard canon gauge, you would also need to show durability of said machines as well to claim its impressive of course.
Kain, nay any vampire are not exactly "beings of darkness", the only entity Ican think of atm that match that description would be the shadow spirits in LoK. The light may be irrelevent but let me gauge the power bombs and ice things;
The power bomb seems to have a slow charge up, I think it probably has enough heat to get the job done and defeat Kain but the charge up would kill Samus. The ice missles are harder to gauge although their not that quick, I cant see Kain having a problem avoiding them.
As for Kains offense, TK could ruin her looking fairly light, blood powers (we know she has blood this time unlike bowser) and mind powers would be an end to her. She seems to be an easy target and I doubt considering her universe that she has actual resitance to magical powers.
Defence? mist form could be effective against all but the power bomb which creates an actual wave of heat that may dissipate it, missle based weapons would probably pass through it but teleport is probably his best defence. Most of her primary attacks you have shown are not physical based, e.g. kinetic damage and Kain has no resistance to the ice or heat to that degree that I can prove.
Also I like how when I call you out on something you go to the mods to try and get them on your side but when someone else does you comply, its this sort of bias to the person rather than argument that holds these "debates" back.
Originally posted by Burning thought
A lot of your evidence consists of shooting actual enemies within the game though, damage to enemies or how long it takes to destroy them is a hard canon gauge, you would also need to show durability of said machines as well to claim its impressive of course.
That's not what I'm trying to prove, though. All I want you to look at is the effect of the beam. How long it takes to kill the Space Pirate is irrelevant to the fact that the plasma beam can set it on fire, and when it does die it turns to ash. Same deal with the robots; I realize the number of shots it takes is a mechanic but again that's irrelevant when said robot ends up melting into a puddle of molten slag. Then there's the piles of metal Samus melts as well.
Kain, nay any vampire are not exactly "beings of darkness", the only entity Ican think of atm that match that description would be the shadow spirits in LoK. The light may be irrelevent but let me gauge the power bombs and ice things;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wgWbqCesPk
Meh. Vampires are weak to light, Ing are weak to light, the Light Beam is designed to exploit this weakness. Even if the target isn't a being of darkness it's still capable of setting them on fire like a weaker version of the plasma beam.
The power bomb seems to have a slow charge up, I think it probably has enough heat to get the job done and defeat Kain but the charge up would kill Samus. The ice missles are harder to gauge although their not that quick, I cant see Kain having a problem avoiding them.
There are a few different versions of the power bomb. The first on I linked is the standard one, can be dropped and takes a few seconds to explode, but has the largest blast radius. The second is the Metroid Prime version, which detonates immediately with no charge up but has a smaller radius. Then there's the Other M version, which has a long charge up time, takes a second to explode, and has a large blast as well as unlimited ammo. The first 2 version Samus is capable of dropping while moving, so she can lay one as she rolls around, which would make her much harder to hit. The Other M version probably would be too slow, but she can charge while rolling, too, and Kain's unlikely to kill her before she pulls it off.
Samus can rapid fire missiles or spam the ice beam, and with the Seeker Missile launch 5 ice missiles at once, all homing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGXy-tZ2wwk#t=9m20s
As for Kains offense, TK could ruin her looking fairly light, blood powers (we know she has blood this time unlike bowser) and mind powers would be an end to her. She seems to be an easy target and I doubt considering her universe that she has actual resitance to magical powers.
I doubt it, since Samus can fly (Space Jump) she is more than likely able to get out of TK anyway, perhaps even with the Morph Ball. Maybe the Gravity suit could block it, even. Blood Powers I don't see getting past the suit, and mind powers in general don't tend to work on Samus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOd1taoTfMw#t=9m24s
"Armor systems online. Symbiotic possession attempt failed."
Because Ing can't survive in the light world, they tend to possess other creatures and use their bodies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyz0WhFQd3I#t=6m26s
Ing a are basically demons. In addition, Dark Samus has a similar mind control ability: http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Pirate_Data
The first few entries show what I mean. And Dark Samus did try to control Samus like this, it's basically the whole plot of Metroid Prime 3 that Samus got corrupted and has to resist the influence. So mind control is pretty much a no-go.
Defence? mist form could be effective against all but the power bomb which creates an actual wave of heat that may dissipate it, missle based weapons would probably pass through it but teleport is probably his best defence. Most of her primary attacks you have shown are not physical based, e.g. kinetic damage and Kain has no resistance to the ice or heat to that degree that I can prove.
I have doubts mist can really protect him from the plasma beam, but he might really have problems with the diffusion missiles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE0WZLJ2jIY#t=5m58s
And a quick power bomb should be more useful than a slow one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yR3CW9Ac7w#t=9m7s
Originally posted by The Scenario
That's not what I'm trying to prove, though. All I want you to look at is the effect of the beam. How long it takes to kill the Space Pirate is irrelevant to the fact that the plasma beam can set it on fire, and when it does die it turns to ash. Same deal with the robots; I realize the number of shots it takes is a mechanic but again that's irrelevant when said robot ends up melting into a puddle of molten slag. Then there's the piles of metal Samus melts as well.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wgWbqCesPk
Meh. Vampires are weak to light, Ing are weak to light, the Light Beam is designed to exploit this weakness. Even if the target isn't a being of darkness it's still capable of setting them on fire like a weaker version of the plasma beam.
There are a few different versions of the power bomb. The first on I linked is the standard one, can be dropped and takes a few seconds to explode, but has the largest blast radius. The second is the Metroid Prime version, which detonates immediately with no charge up but has a smaller radius. Then there's the Other M version, which has a long charge up time, takes a second to explode, and has a large blast as well as unlimited ammo. The first 2 version Samus is capable of dropping while moving, so she can lay one as she rolls around, which would make her much harder to hit. The Other M version probably would be too slow, but she can charge while rolling, too, and Kain's unlikely to kill her before she pulls it off.
Samus can rapid fire missiles or spam the ice beam, and with the Seeker Missile launch 5 ice missiles at once, all homing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGXy-tZ2wwk#t=9m20s
I doubt it, since Samus can fly (Space Jump) she is more than likely able to get out of TK anyway, perhaps even with the Morph Ball. Maybe the Gravity suit could block it, even. Blood Powers I don't see getting past the suit, and mind powers in general don't tend to work on Samus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOd1taoTfMw#t=9m24s
"Armor systems online. [b]Symbiotic possession attempt failed.
"Because Ing can't survive in the light world, they tend to possess other creatures and use their bodies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyz0WhFQd3I#t=6m26s
Ing a are basically demons. In addition, Dark Samus has a similar mind control ability: http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Pirate_Data
The first few entries show what I mean. And Dark Samus did try to control Samus like this, it's basically the whole plot of Metroid Prime 3 that Samus got corrupted and has to resist the influence. So mind control is pretty much a no-go.I have doubts mist can really protect him from the plasma beam, but he might really have problems with the diffusion missiles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE0WZLJ2jIY#t=5m58sAnd a quick power bomb should be more useful than a slow one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yR3CW9Ac7w#t=9m7s [/B]
I dont know the heating point of those metals though, its relevent because everything melts at a certain temperature.
No, their burned by sunlight, if Ing are confirmed to only be harmed by sunlight alone then you may have a point, Kain walks around in the day time, light is irrelevent to him.
"unlikely" when he can avoid her through teleportation, throw her like a ball with TK or just one shot her with a spell her suit cant do anything about.
Being able to fly doesnt mean Tk stops working...it just means she can also fly under her own power, but Kain can make her fly under his and throw her around. Blood powers dont touch the suit as for mind powers, since when is a symbiote possession=mind control? or spirit control? Kain has both.
Show me Dark Samus actually doing a mind control, then show me the effectiveness of it, if its useless and has never worked we dont have much basis.
Its feat there is breaking rocks, I cant see a power bomb of that strength doing anything.
Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont know the heating point of those metals though, its relevent because everything melts at a certain temperature.
Let's see...the robots are called Tinbots, so assuming they are made of tin gives us a melting point of 230 Celsius and a boiling point of 2602 Celsius. Given that it also turns living things to ash it must be pretty hot.
No, their burned by sunlight, if Ing are confirmed to only be harmed by sunlight alone then you may have a point, Kain walks around in the day time, light is irrelevent to him.
Yes yes, Kain has resistance to normal sunlight. That doesn't necessarily mean he's immune to a more intense blast or standing next to a star. Raziel has a Sunlight Glyph that kills adult vampires despite their immunity. About Ing, I don't actually know if they're vulnerable to normal sunlight. It's hard to explain, but the planet they're on, Aether, doesn't have a sun. Instead, there is the Light of Aether, a probably magical energy source within the planet that serves the purpose of replacing the sun. Scans say it contains solar energy and several other things. It's weird, and it's also what powers the Light Beam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBqLpKhOH1g#t=10m4s
"unlikely" when he can avoid her through teleportation, throw her like a ball with TK or just one shot her with a spell her suit cant do anything about.
Being able to fly doesnt mean Tk stops working...it just means she can also fly under her own power, but Kain can make her fly under his and throw her around. Blood powers dont touch the suit as for mind powers, since when is a symbiote possession=mind control? or spirit control? Kain has both.
I say unlikely since Samus can counter Kain TK throwing her in several ways, one of which would be to turn into an actual ball. She can fly, Kain wouldn't be able to hold her still, and in mid air she can go right into a screw attack. What spell, specifically? I can't think of any spell Kain has that could get past Samus' suit. Same with the blood powers, they have no way past the suit.
Since the symbiote controls your mind, obviously.
Show me Dark Samus actually doing a mind control, then show me the effectiveness of it, if its useless and has never worked we dont have much basis.
Let's start with Rundas. Before Dark Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjI7Fe6B4j8#t=7m35s
After Dark Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjo-LbUz6k8#t=3m35s
Next up, Ghor. Before Dark Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHCpZ3t0kt4#t=2m22s
After Dark Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFL240Bb0l0#t=13s
Gandrada before Dark Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHKZefebYtk#t=32s
After Dark Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onNvwfHCOcA
The fiendish shrew consumed all of the Phazon, then wiped out a third of the crew in a matter of minutes. Now she moves at will through the halls of Colossus, using her witchery to beguile the minds of the crew. We are unable to call for aid, and only a few of us remain to stand against her. All is lost.
Our struggles have ended. She has shown us the error of our ways. The way is now clear. All previous vows of fealty have been forsworn: we now pledge sole allegiance to our liberator, the great one, Dark Samus.
All is not lost, however. Our great leader defeated Aran and her mongrel allies in battle. If they aren't dead, they'll soon wish they were. Each of them bears her mark of corruption. Soon they, like we disciples, will bow to her will.
Dark Samus controlled a significant portion of the Space Pirates and all of Samus' bounty hunter allies. Rundas, Ghor, and Gandrayda became the Commanders of her Space Pirate army. It worked every time it was used, except on Samus.
Its feat there is breaking rocks, I cant see a power bomb of that strength doing anything.
Except killing Kain with its heat wave?
Originally posted by The Scenario
Let's see...the robots are called Tinbots, so assuming they are made of tin gives us a melting point of 230 Celsius and a boiling point of 2602 Celsius. Given that it also turns living things to ash it must be pretty hot.Yes yes, Kain has resistance to normal sunlight. That doesn't necessarily mean he's immune to a more intense blast or standing next to a star. Raziel has a Sunlight Glyph that kills adult vampires despite their immunity. About Ing, I don't actually know if they're vulnerable to normal sunlight. It's hard to explain, but the planet they're on, Aether, doesn't have a sun. Instead, there is the Light of Aether, a probably magical energy source within the planet that serves the purpose of replacing the sun. Scans say it contains solar energy and several other things. It's weird, and it's also what powers the Light Beam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBqLpKhOH1g#t=10m4s
I say unlikely since Samus can counter Kain TK throwing her in several ways, one of which would be to turn into an actual ball. She can fly, Kain wouldn't be able to hold her still, and in mid air she can go right into a screw attack. What spell, specifically? I can't think of any spell Kain has that could get past Samus' suit. Same with the blood powers, they have no way past the suit.
Since the symbiote controls your mind, obviously.Let's start with Rundas. Before Dark Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjI7Fe6B4j8#t=7m35s
After Dark Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjo-LbUz6k8#t=3m35s
Next up, Ghor. Before Dark Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHCpZ3t0kt4#t=2m22s
After Dark Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFL240Bb0l0#t=13s
Gandrada before Dark Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHKZefebYtk#t=32s
After Dark Samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onNvwfHCOcA
Dark Samus controlled a significant portion of the Space Pirates and all of Samus' bounty hunter allies. Rundas, Ghor, and Gandrayda became the Commanders of her Space Pirate army. It worked every time it was used, except on Samus.
Except killing Kain with its heat wave?
Fair enough deduction. Although you know Tin is not the most sturdy of metals.
We know hes immune to sunlight, e.g. its nothing to him, its not even a weakness. Why the glyph which is arguably not even canon can destroy them is something specific to the magic of the glyph.
Since when turning into a ball counters TK? please tell me you have a logical explanation why this would make it harder, and not easier for Kain. What is this based on? show me the thrust power of her suit then please. Blood shower, infact, I need proof of Samus' suit having any magical resitance, not sure it would even protect against most of kains powers unless they create physical manifestations like energy blasts or lightning. Thats not evidence of her mind being stronger than w/e is mind contrlling, shes never faced magic of the mind or an actual mind control, the symbiote is trying to possess.
So the only thing I have not seen is Samus resisting it, also this looks like corruption/suggestion especially based on the second one, not her actually puppetering like Kain would do to Samus. Do we actually see her do it?
A guy who can survive far more than rocks wont be destroyed by a bomb whos feat is thus.
Has Samus any soul resistance at all?
Originally posted by Burning thought
We know hes immune to sunlight, e.g. its nothing to him, its not even a weakness. Why the glyph which is arguably not even canon can destroy them is something specific to the magic of the glyph.
Used to be, though. As I recall, Kain used factories to create ridiculous amounts of smoke and block out/weaken Nosgoth's sunlight, specifically to build up resistance.
Since when turning into a ball counters TK? please tell me you have a logical explanation why this would make it harder, and not easier for Kain. What is this based on? show me the thrust power of her suit then please. Blood shower, infact, I need proof of Samus' suit having any magical resitance, not sure it would even protect against most of kains powers unless they create physical manifestations like energy blasts or lightning. Thats not evidence of her mind being stronger than w/e is mind contrlling, shes never faced magic of the mind or an actual mind control, the symbiote is trying to possess.
Well, what's Kain going to do with his TK? Tossing Samus around isn't really going to hinder her, especially given her own fighting style has her flipping and jumping most of the time anyway. Trying to bind her limbs specifically would fail if she has no limbs, and she's perfectly capable of fighting in ball form via copious amounts of explosives. Thrust power of her suit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wJMs6Zqcxs#t=1m42s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRHw4YaiLgA#t=2m50s
You mean like that?
Blood Shower...don't you need to prove that can go through obstacles in the first place? I don't see any reason to assume magic would automatically go through the armor. It's a suit of armor with a force field held together by willpower and concentration, and it isn't like Samus has never fought supernatural or intangible opponents before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQn6vT91Sqs#t=1m30s
Heck, her ship has to intercept telepathic messages because she can't receive them herself. I've already shown you an attempted possession fail, too, so that seems pretty good for supernatural resistance.
So the only thing I have not seen is Samus resisting it, also this looks like corruption/suggestion especially based on the second one, not her actually puppetering like Kain would do to Samus. Do we actually see her do it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psb6La8i1Z0#t=39s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApC74XffPEk#t=9m35s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R95Wr77EImI&#t=7m50s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByaykRPSsPE#t=8m35s
I suppose you missed Dark Samus puppeteering Rundas. Oh, and when it says "corruption," that's the term for phazon poisoning. Normally, too much phazon just makes you go insane (Samus resisted this, too) but when there's an intelligent force like Dark Samus around it just lets her mind control you. Samus resisted up to 99% corruption level, where most of her body was completely corrupted, yet her mind never faltered. Personally, I don't think Kain has anything on that.
Has Samus any soul resistance at all?
She has killed souls before. Depending on how you choose to define "life-energy," which Metroids eat, that's a yes.
Originally posted by The Scenario
Used to be, though. As I recall, Kain used factories to create ridiculous amounts of smoke and block out/weaken Nosgoth's sunlight, specifically to build up resistance.Well, what's Kain going to do with his TK? Tossing Samus around isn't really going to hinder her, especially given her own fighting style has her flipping and jumping most of the time anyway. Trying to bind her limbs specifically would fail if she has no limbs, and she's perfectly capable of fighting in ball form via copious amounts of explosives. Thrust power of her suit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wJMs6Zqcxs#t=1m42s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRHw4YaiLgA#t=2m50s
You mean like that?Blood Shower...don't you need to prove that can go through obstacles in the first place? I don't see any reason to assume magic would automatically go through the armor. It's a suit of armor with a force field held together by willpower and concentration, and it isn't like Samus has never fought supernatural or intangible opponents before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQn6vT91Sqs#t=1m30s
Heck, her ship has to intercept telepathic messages because she can't receive them herself. I've already shown you an attempted possession fail, too, so that seems pretty good for supernatural resistance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psb6La8i1Z0#t=39s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApC74XffPEk#t=9m35s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R95Wr77EImI&#t=7m50s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByaykRPSsPE#t=8m35sI suppose you missed Dark Samus puppeteering Rundas. Oh, and when it says "corruption," that's the term for phazon poisoning. Normally, too much phazon just makes you go insane (Samus resisted this, too) but when there's an intelligent force like Dark Samus around it just lets her mind control you. Samus resisted up to 99% corruption level, where most of her body was completely corrupted, yet her mind never faltered. Personally, I don't think Kain has anything on that.
She has killed souls before. Depending on how you choose to define "life-energy," which Metroids eat, that's a yes.
That was in the late era, since then though hes proven he himself can stand in any era in Nosgoth unfazed by light, whether his minions could do the same is unkown.
Well it is because how is she going to aim at him with guns or attack him with bombs if he keeps launching her through the air? No I meant how powerful is the thrust that lets her fly.
It doesnt touch obstacles, blood shower calls the blood to Kain, it doesnt send blood out to the enemies 😬 you must be thinking of blood gout where Kain actually fires his own blood. Unless forcefields have stopped blood magic before then thats useless, its not going to stop her blood being torn from her body and her inevitable cardiac arrest and body shut down.
If Kain tries to possess her, maybe but thats amibgious, Kains got possession AND mind powers, if she cant even recieve telepathy then she probably has little to no mental power or resistance, easy game.
Your calling it mind control but now apprently this Dark phazon corrupts and dark Samus seems to just control the corrupted. Your comparing things to Kains sorcery or mental control that are nothing alike. It would be like me using Kains resistance to physical damage to say he can resist being frozen. "nothing on it"? he doesnt use Dark phazon or anything of the like ,he uses sorcery which this confirms is not faced by Samus and so how can she ever resist?
I found this one Phazon on the metroid wiki;
Exposure to Phazon radiation destroys brain cells and cognitive thought in sentient beings, yet it also sees a gain of muscle mass and other beneficial abilities. Phazon exposure, while destroying the mind, makes beings hunger for more Phazon. In turn, corrupted beings also have a natural instinct to protect Phazon and its source.
So its nothing to do with actual mind control of any kind, its just corruption, if anything it destroys the mind, not puppeteers it.
Hard to define then isnt it, if its never really compared to the spirit...life energy could be any number of things. So far Kain can kill her with pretty much anything in his arsenal while shes tossed around literally like a ball. Maybe for lulz he will play ball with her for years until she dies of old age (if she can?).
Originally posted by Burning thought
That was in the late era, since then though hes proven he himself can stand in any era in Nosgoth unfazed by light, whether his minions could do the same is unkown.
Evidence for that one?
Well it is because how is she going to aim at him with guns or attack him with bombs if he keeps launching her through the air? No I meant how powerful is the thrust that lets her fly.
Note the video I posted before, the one where Samus launches a hundred feet upwards and can still shoot. Her fighting style is mostly made up of tossing herself through the air and I doubt Kain really target her moving like that anyway. The thrust that let's Samus fly is her jumps. The Space Jump upgrade lets her do unlimited spin jumps.
It doesnt touch obstacles, blood shower calls the blood to Kain, it doesnt send blood out to the enemies 😬 you must be thinking of blood gout where Kain actually fires his own blood. Unless forcefields have stopped blood magic before then thats useless, its not going to stop her blood being torn from her body and her inevitable cardiac arrest and body shut down.
See, you're going to need to prove that "doesn't touch obstacles" thing first. You'd need to prove that Kain can still call/influence the blood when there is a substantial obstacle in the way. The force field field blocks demonic possession and telepathy; magic is not much of a stretch given that Samus has fought magic wielding foes before.
If Kain tries to possess her, maybe but thats amibgious, Kains got possession AND mind powers, if she cant even recieve telepathy then she probably has little to no mental power or resistance, easy game.
Can't receive telepathy, as in telepathic signals cannot directly access her mind.
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Alimbic_Datashade
She usually just scans them. You know, because of the force field and suit in the way. Kain can't access her mind because of this, you realize. He can't control her mind if he can't reach it, and even then her willpower and resistance to such things would make her more or less immune to Kain's mind control.
Your calling it mind control but now apprently this Dark phazon corrupts and dark Samus seems to just control the corrupted. Your comparing things to Kains sorcery or mental control that are nothing alike. It would be like me using Kains resistance to physical damage to say he can resist being frozen. "nothing on it"? he doesnt use Dark phazon or anything of the like ,he uses sorcery which this confirms is not faced by Samus and so how can she ever resist?
Dark Samus. Phazon. Dark Samus is made of phazon, but there is no dark phazon. Now that that's out of the way, it is not "corruption" in the way you're using the term. It's not slow, and it's not using temptation or offerings or anything like that. It's a radioactive poison, one that Dark Samus can control you with once its in your system. Resisting that kind of assault does, in fact require some good mental fortitude. They're both mind control, and need a strong will to resist. Same thing, slightly different mechanism.
I found this one Phazon on the metroid wiki;So its nothing to do with actual mind control of any kind, its just corruption, if anything it destroys the mind, not puppeteers it.
The evidence shown contradicts it or support it depending on context. That scan is something from the first Metroid Prime, with Space Pirates experimenting with it. The difference being back then there was no Dark Samus controlling it, so the victims simply went insane. Yes, phazon can cause brain damage, but it can also disintegrate things on contact and bind ghosts and spirits to the mortal plane. Point being phazon is a context based, plot based material that just does "whatever." In the specific instance of Space Pirates injecting phazon into their blood or eating phazon mushrooms, yes, it caused brain damage and increased muscle mass. In the specific instance of Dark Samus implanting a phazon "seed of corruption," there is no evidence of brain damage in any of the 4 Hunters. In fact, take another look at the videos I linked you earlier: Rundas was being directly puppeted by Dark Samus, Ghor went after Samus' ship to prevent her from escaping, and Gandrayda set a trap disguised as a Galactic Federation Trooper. Do any of them appear to have any brain damage at all? Aside from suddenly obeying Dark Samus, none of them have reduced faculties at all. Except Rundas, but again: puppet.
Hard to define then isnt it, if its never really compared to the spirit...life energy could be any number of things. So far Kain can kill her with pretty much anything in his arsenal while shes tossed around literally like a ball. Maybe for lulz he will play ball with her for years until she dies of old age (if she can?).
Metroid dissection continues to provide more questions than answers. Our research teams have isolated the energy conduits that run from the invasive twin mandibles to the energy core in the creature's quadripartite nucleus, but the manner in which a Metroid actually extracts the life force from its prey remains an utter mystery. The victim does not lose blood or any other vital fluids, and yet the Metroid extracts energy: identifying this energy is our central problem. It takes no physical form, and yet without it, the victim dies. We will continue to research this matter, as the isolation of this life-giving essence could be the key to our ascendance.
No physical form, victim dies without it, compared to an "essence." Sounds suitably soul sucky.
So far, Samus kills Kain with a single shot of the plasma beam, has resistance to or immunity to everything he can dish out, and can kill him as a ball. Samus probably will end up dying of old age, though Kain would'nt be so lucky. (These points are still be discussed in other paragraphs, please don't assume you've you won them.)