The 25th Anniversary Zelda Villain Gauntlet

Originally posted by Burning thought
And again, you dodged all the points and implied youve proven, once again with claims all your points....

Also its clear you fill in a lot of gaps in Ganondorfs storyline/feat list, we dont see him do a ton of things he apprently did, yet you fill in the gaps with the assumption that he did it purely with physical force or took blows full on and just tanked it when we dont see anything at all.

It's ****ing hard to destroy an island without exerting force on it, BT. You ignore this. Did I mention when he did this the master sword still had the bulk of his power sealed? It did. He then went on to force a permanent night all across the great sea, which is at least a country-scale feat.

He's frozen Zora's domain twice, you ignore this, too.

The Master Sword kept all of Hyrule in a permanent time stop while weakened. You ignore this.

The goddesses created the world and everything in it, you ignore this

Midna hit Ganon so hard his castle exploded. Bam, durability feat. You ignore this.

That scene was so badly done.

Its completely incomprehensible imo.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The defenses I'm fairly certain he can get through. Ganon doesn't actually need to dodge the majority of that, imho. He's capable of reflecting or stopping most of it dead if he can see it coming.

The traps? Isn't Jackpot just something Dante says sometimes? 😬 Dunno much about Magnet.

The thing about Dante's strength is actually... It's sub castle bust. 😛 Sora has the advantage of light which we can argue would smite evil like it does in Zelda, and Samus has the light beam as well.

Dante's ability to cause physical damage is below what Ganon's tanked from a non-evil-smitey-source. mmm

Sora's and Dante's can stop strong magiks and physical strikes from people as strong as they are, thats at least physically bulletproof to the Dorfster's strength.

Not with two people shooting bolts at him :V and cant block Samus&Dante's beams... unlesss he /can/ deflect beams..

..Either I call it Jackpot or I call it the Super-Ultra-Charged-Seal-You-In-Hell Shot.. this BFR is his sig move. And IIRC he hasnt escaped from being trapped in another dimension, at least not solo and after hundreds of years. Sora's Magnet suspends/damages you in mid-air, basically make him into a piñata. So Ice is a possibility?

That and Sora being stronger than GGLink will definatly cause him damage, no?

Wouldnt be too sure. Obd gais list large building busting like this as below 42GJ, the Savior punch feat gives him 12GJ strength (havnt and cba to do the new joules calc so leaving as this). And thats his strength without amulets, gauntlets, DT/DDT or blade charge (which in SMT is listed as an 'Almighty' element attack) amping his strength greatly. Joules wise, his strength is above what GanDem's taken.

Joules wise, his strength is above what GanDem's taken.

Sora's Magnet suspends/damages you in mid-air, basically make him into a piñata.

So Ice is a possibility?

Sora's and Dante's can stop strong magiks and physical strikes from people as strong as they are, thats at least physically bulletproof to the Dorfster's strength.

Sora being stronger than GGLink will definatly cause him damage, no?

Well, no. mmm See, I'm more counting on Sora's light ability than his physical strength considering Ganon's crazy durability. mmm

The way I see it, without magic to aid him in bypassing Ganon's durability, Dante in particular can't hurt him.

And IIRC he hasnt escaped from being trapped in another dimension, at least not solo and after hundreds of years.

Well, actually, the thing about that is we're not really told why Ganondorf needed Zant at all, other than fooling the fandom, heh. Ganondorf's explicitly displayed the ability to **** around with dimensions, seal others between them, and move between them himself. It's really sort of weird.

Edit: and to add to that, the seal placed on Ganon in any game where he's defeated is held in place by the master sword. I'm fairly certain Ganon can overcome a seal from Dante, anyway. mmm

Phone replies are suck.

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Cant escape with flight, TP is probs an option.. but you may have to refresh my memory of how he does it ;;>__>

Didnt it just halt the lava the small volcano was shooting?.... Doesnt matter, stopping lava is stopping lava x:

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A lil different as Link's not taking a direct hit. Its the same if we had swords and I smacked yours out of your hands. The force your hands felt there wouldnt be near getting struck by the blade, on this note Link's arms could take a punch from Ganon. But these guys are taking direct hits. Like DT being able to take a stab from Dante, that < Royal Guard.

To really compare itd be the same as Ganon stabbing Link in the chest for that stab to be either absorbed, reflected or blocked entirely. Cos thats what the two are doing and from things stronger that Ganon.

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Whyssat? Light powered Sora wouldnt be much difference than holy powered Link. 'Sides his strongest light attacks are those mixed into his strikes.

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I think Zant was to get Twili powers? /shrugs/ Nevertheless it still took him decades to escape. And thats the one made from 3 or 4 sages and a mirror. Being the same move Sparda did, it can seal even a powerhouse like Mundas for 2000(?) years.
Sparda also sealed off 7 whole demon species by taking away their collective names.. no reference to this fight, mentioning out of badassery.

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At best the castle is city-block in size, with an explosion like that of a MOAB (50GJ). 2,700 tons flying at 100m/s has joules a fifth of that (and its his second highest strength feat). His gauntlets makes him equal. His four other strength amps put him well over this force.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Except that this isn't true... Midna blew up an entire castle with that attack and didn't damage Ganondorf. mmm

thats pretty impressive sure beats dante tanking an RPG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDvMjTGKcJk and only complaning about it being to noisey.. but anyway how durable is Ganon agianst piercing attacks like for instance bullets stronger than anti tank rifles and a sword swung at high speeds by a 100+ class half demon?

But these guys are taking direct hits.

Whyssat? Light powered Sora wouldnt be much difference than holy powered Link. 'Sides his strongest light attacks are those mixed into his strikes.

Being the same move Sparda did, it can seal even a powerhouse like Mundas for 2000(?) years.

At best the castle is city-block in size, with an explosion like that of a MOAB (50GJ). 2,700 tons flying at 100m/s has joules a fifth of that (and its his second highest strength feat). His gauntlets makes him equal. His four other strength amps put him well over this force.

The castle is huge, and the explosion actually sends debris weighing far more than Saviour's arm flying much faster, to say nothing of the force at the epicenter.

Can you explain to me how you're determining the exact effect of those amps, anyway?

Originally posted by chuck inglish
thats pretty impressive sure beats dante tanking an RPG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDvMjTGKcJk and only complaning about it being to noisey.. but anyway how durable is Ganon agianst piercing attacks like for instance bullets stronger than anti tank rifles and a sword swung at high speeds by a 100+ class half demon?

Dante's pretty strong, but I'm currently not convinced he's strong enough. mmm I've never seen him hit anything that hard.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And here you go, ignoring everything I said. I list feats and you go back to denial.

It's ****ing hard to destroy an island without exerting force on it, BT. You ignore this. Did I mention when he did this the master sword still had the bulk of his power sealed? It did. He then went on to force a permanent night all across the great sea, which is at least a country-scale feat.

He's frozen Zora's domain twice, you ignore this, too.

The Master Sword kept all of Hyrule in a permanent time stop while weakened. You ignore this.

The goddesses created the world and everything in it, you ignore this

Midna hit Ganon so hard his castle exploded. Bam, durability feat. You ignore this.

I could probably name characters like Ganon who could destroy things without touching them, some people who may be able to destroy large things like islands without touching them with forces, lets call them magci for the moment that did not require physical force.

The two "things were frozen!" stuff needs to be seen imo but the Goddess thing, no, not necesserily, when did I ignore that? Infact look at my previous post pointing out creation is not =/= destruction.

Riiigghhttt...

Originally posted by Nephthys
That scene was so badly done.

Its completely incomprehensible imo.

Ill go this route.

And point out that you dodged my points on the subject.

I'll note that as it is destroyed you can see lightning coming from the castle.

YouTube video

2.52.

Lightning /=/ Physical attack.

Thats what I said before iirc, and lightning is nothing to do with Midna. more Ganon if anything. Not physical in any case.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Direct hits? Huh, misinterpretted, then. Can you show me Dante taking a direct hit like that?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Well, that's what I mean, the light-power is more relevant than Sora's strength.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Mundus needs feats to be comparable to Ganondorf, imho. mmm It's said by Ganon that he was "regaining his strength" in TP, that he grew strong on the emotions of the Twili. So, really, even if he was trapped, he was weakened, and he'd need to be weakened to be trapped by similar means.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Disagreed.

The castle is huge, and the explosion actually sends debris weighing far more than Saviour's arm flying much faster, to say nothing of the force at the epicenter.

Can you explain to me how you're determining the exact effect of those amps, anyway?

I disagree on your disagreeing.. I think.

The castle is this size, from ish-scaling and comparing to irl things that tower is around 150m high, making the explosion 100+m in length. Thats city block range. And the largest debris is a 5m chunk (1/30th the towers height) or 200 tons, at 200m/s (near base to height in 0.7s). A third the joules of the Savior's punch.

Amulet- Only from gameplay doubling damage and speed.
Charge Blade- Gameplay, same as Amulets.
Gauntlets- Calced to give him 5x strength.
DT- Same as Gauntlets. Actually given the difference between Nero's Triggered arm and his human arm it'd actually be a good deal higher.
DDT- Much stronger than DT.
Sparda- Doubles DDT.

Will respond to your whole post later, can't atm because I have company coming over.

Amulet- Only from gameplay doubling damage and speed.
Charge Blade- Gameplay, same as Amulets.
Gauntlets- Calced to give him 5x strength.
DT- Same as Gauntlets. Actually given the difference between Nero's Triggered arm and his human arm it'd actually be a good deal higher.
DDT- Much stronger than DT.
Sparda- Doubles DDT.

Well, you seem to be assuming that the buffs stack in multples. mmm For example, while Gilgamesh, IIRC the name of the gauntlets, could provide a flat amount of strength above Dante's norm, rather than multiplying it, which imho, makes more sense, since, it's a boost, I don't think it measures Dante and amplifies him 5x accordingly.

Imho additive > multiplicative

So, if we go by flat rates, what do we get? Otherwise I have some nonsense I can work out with composite Links. mmm /Drools at possibilities. 131

Good, phone would fry taking on a large post.

That would be if they were risen to the level of the demon the weap was made from. Boeowulf says "boost in speed and strength" even though Beowulf as a demon isnt 5x stronger than them and he's slower too. So it cant really be a set level.

I dont believe in the flat rates... But seeing as Im letting the castle busting and lightning feats slide.. may as well go with it for the thread /nicegai

Flat rates mean the Amulet is useless with a Gauntlet, but Giglamesh even with flat rats will be 5x base Dante4's strength. DDT will amp as per its nature, and with Sparda and charging his blade thats.... 1.2e12J.

Thats with his second best J of 1.2e10. Newtons wise his stongest feat is ten times stronger than the punch, but dunno how to calc it as Joules..

Don't think I'm not keeping an eye on you and that composite Link >o>

That would be if they were risen to the level of the demon the weap was made from. Boeowulf says "boost in speed and strength" even though Beowulf as a demon isnt 5x stronger than them and he's slower too. So it cant really be a set level.

Or: It could be an additive to their already superior stats. Eh? It just doesn't make sense to me that the amount of power something gives you is dependent on your own ability. Would it only make Batman 5x stronger? Could it really make The Hulk 5x stronger? mmm Just the way I think of it.

Newtons wise his stongest feat is ten times stronger than the punch, but dunno how to calc it as Joules..

Don't think I'm not keeping an eye on you and that composite Link >o>

Did with him stabbing Nero's constantly DT'd arm (And that arm is Vergil's DT arm, so its equal to Dante). Tanking this 30m wide beam powered by a millenia of demon energy and some from Sparda, Dreadnaught takes more force that Ganon can dish. Kinda this as well for being at the center of a blast that destroyed a demon who could tank Dante's normal slashes and had 'puddle of blood' regen.

but my point is that if the Keys light is on the level of the MS's then the difference will be the strength of the guy using it.

I honestly don't think it is. mmm That's the thing. The Master Sword doesn't blow shit up or whatever, but it does smite evil pretty hard and the scale of it's power is evident through out the series to the point that the sword is the most powerful active character in the canon, heh.

The castle is this size, from ish-scaling and comparing to irl things that tower is around 150m high, making the explosion 100+m in length. Thats city block range.

CkMDyXDlhEc#t=6m2s

6:02, even a single tower is very large and the roof you're on which that tower looms over is very high, with the tower extending high above. For emphasis look how small Midna and Wolf Link look exitting that doorway/window/whatever it is.

Or: It could be an additive to their already superior stats. Eh? It just doesn't make sense to me that the amount of power something gives you is dependent on your own ability. Would it only make Batman 5x stronger? Could it really make The Hulk 5x stronger? Just the way I think of it.

But as said, multiplication or addition, the strength feat for Gauntlets is still 5 times above Dante's base strength.

Wat. Lemme see.

The second feat is sort of conflicting, it only blows up the top of the building, but killed a demon who could tank Dante's blows? O.o I'm actually not sure on the power of Saviour's beam. Meh.

I honestly don't think it is. That's the thing. The Master Sword doesn't blow shit up or whatever, but it does smite evil pretty hard and the scale of it's power is evident through out the series to the point that the sword is the most powerful active character in the canon, heh.

Charging the Key with more light and in a Drive form that amps his physical and light strength, at the worst this cant be that far off the Master Sword. At least at an extent where it'll only take a couple more stabs.

That's a pretty small estimate for the castle given that even some of the lower sections are higher up than that and independently longer than 100 m in length. As a wolf you're already up very, very high when you escape the dungeon. I'll look for some videos. I doubt anyone stops to look around in thier play through, though, sadly...

Getting the scale with height is varies. I mean the height they were on roof doent look largely taller than the view from my local shopping centers carpark. And thats only 25m high.

Finally replying.

But as said, multiplication or addition, the strength feat for Gauntlets is still 5 times above Dante's base strength.

Wait, so the feat with him using the gauntlets is definitively 5 times better than his best base feat? Yes? Or 5 times better than the feat it's been compared to?

Stopping Savior's punch, 2.55e9N. Crushing 2,485 tons using compression, 8e9-4e10N. Kinda forgot to type it, but the calcs about crushing the Savior's face off.

Earlier Abigail stomped on the skyscraper and did damage above the explosion, so the blast has more strength than its size dictates.

The MS is GanDem's highest weakness, followed IMO by holy/light weapons, then powered weapons then finally normal weapons.

Compare this, to if you were to stand as close looking up to this. Even if its a bit taller the base size will still be in the City Block range, MOAB is a low Multi City Block.

Add to this that you're using
1. An amp from the non-cannon SMT
2. Guessing about the amount of amping from DT
3. Straight up just doubling the result with a gameplay amp that doubles his damage
4. Multiplying whatever comes out by 5.

ect, and I honestly cannot see Dante hurting Ganondorf.

And I don't think anyone is bullet proof to his strikes, either, since in a weakened state, with his powers sealed, and no Triforce of Power, Demise physically shook an entire valley.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Wait, so the feat with him using the gauntlets is definitively 5 times better than his best base feat? Yes? Or 5 times better than the feat it's been compared to?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Dat Nero guy sure is good at not being Dante. Besides which point there's a significant difference between applying weight to the top and bottom of a stone column and what he did. Stuff. Doesn't matter.

Crushing something is compressive stress though.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Or there's more to it than pure destructive force, if a better feat did nothing and this one wrecked him, there's sort of an inconsistency, yes?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Not sure where you got that, but the Master Sword has the power to repel evil, is evil destroying, ect, quotes, quotes, references, ect. So, yeah, it works. Light weapons in Zelda have a particular evil destroying quality to them, other works may lack this but for the sake of fair play it's nice to call it a light weakness just because.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Not even sure what you're saying here, but the thing is, the castle is huge, and you're severely lowballing it's size. 😐 Destroying it is a ****ed up feat, and one Dante could not ever replicate.

Add to this that you're using
1. An amp from the non-cannon SMT
2. Guessing about the amount of amping from DT
3. Straight up just doubling the result with a gameplay amp that doubles his damage
4. Multiplying whatever comes out by 5.

ect, and I honestly cannot see Dante hurting Ganondorf.

And I don't think anyone is bullet proof to his strikes, either, since in a weakened state, with his powers sealed, and no Triforce of Power, Demise physically shook an entire valley.

1. O.o I never called out his SMT Son's Oath spell in this thread...
2. Not guessing, assuming its the same as the gauntlets aka lowballing:
-Nero's human strength <more than 5x< Nero's DT strength.
-Vergil's strength <more than 5x< Nelo Angelo [=Dante1]
-Vergil's strength <more than 5x< His DT arms strength. [=DB]
3. The only doubling one like that is the Amulet, the same Amulet I said I wont use for this method. Only other one is charging, which is again a lowballed figure. A DT infused blade can change a normal stab into a building busting, skyscraper shaking stab.
4. Gauntlet is 5, DT is lowballed to 5.

Just as I can't see how a guy with 4.2e10~J durability can take a stab from a guy with a second best feat of 1.3e10J who has several amps. Amulet, Gauntlet, Charging, Sparda and DT.. and all he needs is to be around <3x stronger than base to equal, anything higher to be above that force.

Two queries:
1. How much above 1.2e10J/1.6e9N does it take to shake it? Because thats what Sora's Reflect would have been able to take.
2. How much above 1.26e10+J/4e10N does it take to shake it? Because the skin of DT can tank a stab of this force, with the hide of DN and DDT being tougher than that.
3. Can you prove or even suggest that Scales there was using physical strength, and of course how, and not just the seal breaking that causes it to shake?

How so? The rough scaling points to those numbers. How big would you say it is then? 400, 500m? Im saying that the castle is at best 200m, as tall as the buildings around the 553m CN tower. Unless you have some reason as to why the castle is Empire in height, 200m is gracious. Also that castle busting < DMC hyperbeams < Dreadnaught.

Replying to just this for now because I'm getting drunk tonight, BUT!

I will reply to this particular point for a couple reasons.
1. That it's awesome when people post a picture in a v.s. debate of a place you've personally been millions of times. Toronto gets pretty in the snow. :>
2. Having been there in person I can tell you a couple things. First among them is that the CN tower is not actually very close to any of those buildings, and using them to scale is kind of meh, but anyway.

But yeah, I'd argue the central tower is 200M or more in height, but that's not the point. The castle itself is wide and sprawling across a huge area. :/ It's massive. This is not the sort of feat Dante could ever replicate.

1 n' 2 dont take away the point. Point is that in that pic, those buildings are at the 200m point on the CN tower ie what the Castle would come up to at best.

Pause the vid on the explosion. We can see that the blast diameter is smaller than the spire height. 5:3. A 200m spire means the blast diameter is 120m, and a 120mD circle is half the area of a 80*274 NY city block.

The AoE size of the blast? No. The force of the blast? Yup. Just like how the force of Link's feat lets him lift a.. 60k ton something carrier, the force of Dante's feat is near the force of that blast.