Gamora vs. Sabretooth

Originally posted by Existere
I disagree, but it's not really relevant to the fight.

More important than Gamora's superior skill is her far superior strength. Creed may land at best a glancing claw strike, but nothing that would slow her down. Gamora on the other hand is what now, a class 50? I don't know where she was last ranked, but I do remember her fight with Ronan was shaking the landscape even miles away from where they were actually fighting. Prior to her latest upgrade, she was flipping tanks around for fun.

Unlike the bricks that Sabretooth and Logan usually face, Gamora will not only be able to hit hard but actually have the skill to make her strikes count, and follow up one brutal hit with another.

I don't really see Creed lasting all that long. Meh.

The only person of any skill Gamora has ever fought was Wolverine. She didn't win. Other than that she has used a pressure point on Thing and Rage. Something she admitted she couldn't have done with Sasquatch restraining him, and coincided to Cyclops that she wouldn't have been able to do it to him either. Every top tier street level martial artist has better skill feats than Gamora.

How does Creed only land glancing blows? Ronan was landing flush on her in melee and he isn't exactly Bruce Lee. Gamora lacks the speed or the skill to avoid Creed in melee and tag him with unanswered shots. Her out-striking him at all is very unlikely.

The bricks that Wolverine and Creed usually fight hit them hard enough to liquify all their organs... how does Gamora "make her strikes count" more than that? Creed would fold Gamora up like a lawn chair and take her to soccer practice.

Originally posted by cdtm

Comic books. Read them.

I'd favor Gamora but Srank raises some good points regarding her healing factor. But her damage soak is pretty damn good. I doubt slashes are going to slow her down much. Also, Gamora is pretty damn fast. I remember that Chase with the two Nova's flying through town at high speeds. She caught up to them pretty damn quickly.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The only person of any skill Gamora has ever fought was Wolverine. She didn't win. Other than that she has used a pressure point on Thing and Rage. Something she admitted she couldn't have done with Sasquatch restraining him, and coincided to Cyclops that she wouldn't have been able to do it to him either. Every top tier street level martial artist has better skill feats than Gamora.

How does Creed only land glancing blows? Ronan was landing flush on her in melee and he isn't exactly Bruce Lee. Gamora lacks the speed or the skill to avoid Creed in melee and tag him with unanswered shots. Her out-striking him at all is very unlikely.

The bricks that Wolverine and Creed usually fight hit them hard enough to liquify all their organs... how does Gamora "make her strikes count" more than that? Creed would fold Gamora up like a lawn chair and take her to soccer practice.

Also you must take into consideration that a brick hitting someone of value in a comic means they are not hitting them with there full force. For example, almost every street leveler has been hit with things that should kill them. The fact that they didn't die means that the attack jobbed.

IMO, she is faster, stronger than Creed and more skilled. Creed's durability (HF) is better. She has pressure point attacks which amplifies her effectiveness several magnitudes more. It wouldn't be easy for Creed to land flush blows (stop lowballing her because of the Ronan fight, she is better than that).

This is a good fight that can go either way.

Originally posted by h1a8
You are only looking at Gamora from one instance. It is clear that she is highly skilled and very fast. Plus you are forgetting that she had several upgrades and was flipping tanks around like nothing. So her not being about to pressure point Thing without help is hogwash.

Also you must take into consideration that a brick hitting someone of value in a comic means they are not hitting them with there full force. For example, almost every street leveler has been hit with things that should kill them. The fact that they didn't die means that the attack jobbed.

IMO, she is faster, stronger than Creed and more skilled. Creed's durability (HF) is better. She has pressure point attacks which amplifies her effectiveness several magnitudes more. It wouldn't be easy for Creed to land flush blows (stop lowballing her because of the Ronan fight, she is better than that).

This is a good fight that can go either way.

I'm looking at Gamora's entire collected history, not one isolated instance. Gamora simply lacks the speed or skill feats, to rival the top street level MAs. She has two pressure point feats that she says she can't use in an actual fight, and some anecdotal evidence that she is the "most dangerous women in the universe." Awesome? Every single one of the top street level characters has better speed feats, and most of them have better skill feats as well.

Not really sure what her being strong enough to lift a tank has to do with her lacking the proficiency to use pressure points effectively in a fight.

Yeeeeeeeeeah no. Wolverine and Sabretooth tank the best shots of class 100 bricks, we been told that explicitly dozens of times. Alternatively there isn't a single example of someone like the Hulk saying "Captain America is shrugging of my best attacks!" The same goes for virtually any combination of street level hero and class 100 brick. Guys like Batman and Cap survive the odd attack form class 100s because they "roll with the blow" or the character his hold back, that's the explanation we have been given routinely by Marvel and DC. Logan and Creed eat class 100 blows because their healing factor allows them to, that's the explanation we have been given routinely by Marvel. The two scenarios are not the same.

Gamora is stronger than Creed, and she has higher durability for blunt damage soak... but none of that matters since Sabretooth isn't going to wrestle her and his primary method of attack is his claws. Creed has the potential to end this fight with a single well placed blow. Gamora would have to avoid his every attack and connect with hundreds of unanswered blows to net a victory... what in her history suggests that is something she is cable of? Hint: The answer is nothing.

Gamora's fight with Ronan is one of her best feats... and I'm low balling her by citing that fight?

Gamora takes a while to heal from been exposed to the sun, and when i say exposed she was right next to it...thats a low showing ?

Originally posted by Nihilist
Gamora takes a while to heal from been exposed to the sun, and when i say exposed she was right next to it...thats a low showing ?

She tanked the heat with her durability, not with her healing factor. A few layers of skin was burnt off, that's about it. It took her days to repair that damage. Wolverine's healed from similar wounds in between panels.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
She tanked the heat with her durability, not with her healing factor. A few layers of skin was burnt off, that's about it. It took her days to repair that damage. Wolverine's healed from similar wounds in between panels.

Originally posted by Nihilist
So what if it was part durability/part healing factor. She was stood a few feet away from the Sun, when has Wolverine been that close to a sun?

Think about the difference between using a flame thrower on a concrete pillar and using a flame thrower on a sheet of wax paper. Gamora's durability is as such that the star's heat was only sufficient to do surface damage to her dermis. At most we are talking about third degree burns, and it took her days to repair that damage. Wolverine heals that sort of damage in seconds, he heals forth degree and burns where entire muscle groups are brunt to cinders in mere panels.

Grant Morrison's New X-Men.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Think about the difference between using a flame thrower on a concrete pillar and using a flame thrower on a sheet of wax paper. Gamora's durability is as such that the star's heat was only sufficient to do surface damage to her dermis. At most we are talking about third degree burns, and it took her days to repair that damage. Wolverine heals that sort of damage in seconds, he heals forth degree and burns where entire muscle groups are brunt to cinders in mere panels.

Grant Morrison's New X-Men.

In Grant Morrisons Xmen he was nowhere near as close to the sun as Gamora was IIRC.

I remember 1 time that Wolverine was close to the sun, it was when he was in a spaceship with Jean he was carrying her and they went out of the spaceship and he started burning then Jean teleported their asses away.

Originally posted by Nihilist
That anology is pointless youre trying to compare a flame throwing to the god damn sun, the temp difference is is completely of the scale.

In Grant Morrisons Xmen he was nowhere near as close to the sun as Gamora was IIRC.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Gamora is so much more durable than a concrete pillar that the durability difference is off the scale. Ditto with Wolverine and a sheet of wax paper. The analogy is apt. Gamora durability is high enough that she can largely resist the heat of a star before being burnt, but the damage that she did get from said burns took her days to heal from.

Wolverine was closer to the star. He was in side the suns corona, Gamora was merely on a dyson fire that's atmosphere was ignited by the suns heat when it's force field went down.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Comic books. Read them.

Also, where's Mindset when you need him?

gamora

Gamora.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The only person of any skill Gamora has ever fought was Wolverine. She didn't win. Other than that she has used a pressure point on Thing and Rage. Something she admitted she couldn't have done with Sasquatch restraining him, and coincided to Cyclops that she wouldn't have been able to do it to him either. Every top tier street level martial artist has better skill feats than Gamora.

How does Creed only land glancing blows? Ronan was landing flush on her in melee and he isn't exactly Bruce Lee. Gamora lacks the speed or the skill to avoid Creed in melee and tag him with unanswered shots. Her out-striking him at all is very unlikely.

The bricks that Wolverine and Creed usually fight hit them hard enough to liquify all their organs... how does Gamora "make her strikes count" more than that? Creed would fold Gamora up like a lawn chair and take her to soccer practice.

I don't see how Gamera is THAT much more a threat than Ms. Marvel in h2h... from all appearances... she isn't.

Originally posted by jinzin
LMAO! True.

I don't see how Gamera is THAT much more a threat than Ms. Marvel in h2h... from all appearances... she isn't.

She's not. That's why must the people who think Gamora will win need to resort to one word posts. If they bothered to but anything thought into explain how Gamora would possibly win, they would quickly come to the realization that they were misguided. 😎

Originally posted by h1a8
You are only looking at Gamora from one instance. It is clear that she is highly skilled and very fast. Plus you are forgetting that she had several upgrades and was flipping tanks around like nothing. So her not being about to pressure point Thing without help is hogwash.

Also you must take into consideration that a brick hitting someone of value in a comic means they are not hitting them with there full force. For example, almost every street leveler has been hit with things that should kill them. The fact that they didn't die means that the attack jobbed.

IMO, she is faster, stronger than Creed and more skilled. Creed's durability (HF) is better. She has pressure point attacks which amplifies her effectiveness several magnitudes more. It wouldn't be easy for Creed to land flush blows (stop lowballing her because of the Ronan fight, she is better than that).

This is a good fight that can go either way.

Oh christ... Okay so another "comic feats only matter when I say argument" huh? Right then...

No one has argued that Gamora isn't highly skilled and no one said she wasn't fast... the argument is that she isn't skilled enough or fast enough to outstrike Creed in a fight to any degree that would actually allow her to win h2h. If you disagree then you need to start bringing evidence to the table to support yourself here.

Bottem line? Wolverine is not fast or skilled enough to outstrike Creed without taking SIGNIFICANT damage in their fights, IF he outstrikes him at all.... AND.... he usually loses... y'know, WITH a superfast healing factor that would allow him to heal from damage lightyears faster than Gamora's capabilities allow for.

First, you need to prove that Gamora's more skilled than Wolverie- And you can't. Trust me, been down this road already.
Then you would need to prove that she's faster in combat than Wolverine- And you SERIOUSLY can't.... again, done this dance already.
Then you could BEGIN to make the argument that she's faster than Creed for instance, though not very well...
THEN you would need to prove that those attributes were on such a superior level that they allow for the rest of the argument that you're attempting to make. This.... this will be next to impossible to do given her feats and appearances; ignoring the hype.

As for hogwash..... Wolverine and Creed are characters who have attributes at a SUPERHUMAN level that ALLOW them to take those shots full force.. you can pretend that isn't what's being presented on panel, but when you have a character like Savage Hulk threatening to "smash little man" is kind of hard to ignore the implication that Hulk's hitting Wolverine for real. Either of these characters not dying has nothing to do with "jobbing" it has to do with the powers they actually have... If you want to ignore that too, then you're not arguing against the characters that exist... of course given that you think Gamora's too fast and too skilled to be hit flush by Creed in a h2h fight it's already quite apparent that you're not using exsisting characters for the purposes of this thread.

Finally... several things: The Ronan fight is one of the best displays Gamora's ever put up against anyone of note that wasn't circumstantial with the exception of Ronan fighting like an idiot.

Pressure points have shown numerous times to be inneffective against Wolverine when his healing factor's working at peak conditions and Sabretooth's is better, AND someone of Gamora's strength class FAILED to use pressure points on Classic Creed back in the day.... They'll work better now? Nuh uh.

And Last, unlike Gamora, Sabretooth actually has feats against a Wolverine calibur opponent where he was moving so well, and so fast that we wasn't taking flush shots in a fight... WHILE playing around.... So the door swings both ways there if that's your arugment.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Gamora is stronger than Creed, and she has higher durability for blunt damage soak...

Yeah his muscles were said to be akin to corded steal two upgrades ago.