Originally posted by srankmissingninNo matter what you say Batman >>> Punisher
No matter what DC says, Batman's history has changed fairly drastically merely by extension of every other character's history having been revamped. We have no idea what remains and what has changed, so as far as I'm concerned if a story isn't directly referenced on panel it didn't happen until someone mentions it. All we know about current Batman is that he has had five Robins in five years, some version of Son of the Demon happened (but based on the timeline and Damon's age it would have happened before Bruce was Batman), there was some version of R.I.P / Return of Bruce Wayne... and that he gets beat up by everyone.
Originally posted by iceman24567
Uh huh sure you ignore DC's stance on Batmans history and i will ignore your stance on street level characters 👆. Batman 10/10
My stance is that some of Batman's history remains, some of it has been changed, some of it has been discarded... we we don't know what remains unchanged, what has been modified and what has been disregarded entirely. Batman's history is not the same as it was pre Flash Point. Any Batman story line that has even remote ties to any other character in the DC has been changed and in most cases completely disregarded. Batman's history isn't the same, DC's "stance" is just empty rhetoric, a preemptive attempt to placate the run of the mill Batman fanboy before they get up in arms about changing their god. Batman's pre Flash Point history can not be rectified to fit into the new condensed time frame and anything evolving any other hero outside of the Bat-franchise has been changed entirely in ways we can only guess at. Batgirl was only paralyzed for three years! Damon would have been conceived before Bruce ever became Batman! If you want to pretend Batman's history is the same... then you are an idiot and I have some magic beans I'd like to sell you.
Until something is referenced we have no idea whether it happened or not, pretending otherwise is stupid.
Schrodinger's cat.
Originally posted by srankmissingninAll thats nice and i don't care about your delusional stance
My stance is that some of Batman's history remains, some of it has been changed, some of it has been discarded... we we don't know what remains unchanged, what has been modified and what has been disregarded entirely. Batman's history is [b]not the same as it was pre Flash Point. Any Batman story line that has even remote ties to any other character in the DC has been changed and in most cases completely disregarded. Batman's history isn't the same, DC's "stance" is just empty rhetoric, a preemptive attempt to placate the run of the mill Batman fanboy before they get up in arms about changing their god. Batman's pre Flash Point history can not be rectified to fit into the new condensed time frame and anything evolving any other hero outside of the Bat-franchise has been changed entirely in ways we can only guess at. Batgirl was only paralyzed for three years! Damon would have been conceived before Bruce ever became Batman! If you want to pretend Batman's history is the same... then you are an idiot and I have some magic beans I'd like to sell you.Until something is referenced we have no idea whether it happened or not, pretending otherwise is stupid. [/B]
Originally posted by iceman24567
All thats nice and i don't care about your delusional stance
What's delusional about it? I dare you to find a single fault with my "stance," which isn't a stance at all, so much as it is the reality of the situation. You can mumble "but but but DC said... " all you'd like, but guess what? They lied to you. Batman's history has been altered, there is no way around it. His history can't be the same because every other character involved in his old history was changed in ways we don't know yet. It's not a complicated situation. I'm sorry you were stupid enough to fall for their rhetoric, but I'm not sure what I can do to help you. Remember when DC said it wasn't a reboot? They lied about that too. Just gentle words to sooth the troubled minds of simpletons. They will be happy to know it worked though... maybe you should tweet them the good news?
Originally posted by srankmissingninYes like i said i will ignore your delusional stance on the subject because your opinion matter little when the DC made it clear his history for the most part is the same andways Batman win everytime after a brutal fight
What's delusional about it? I dare you to find a single fault with my "stance," which isn't a stance at all, so much as it is the reality of the situation. You can mumble "but but but DC said... " all you'd like, but guess what? They lied to you. Batman's history has been altered, there is no way around it. His history can't be the same because every other character involved in his old history was changed in ways we don't know yet. It's not a complicated situation. I'm sorry you were stupid enough to fall for their rhetoric, but I'm not sure what I can do to help you. Remember when DC said it wasn't a reboot? They lied about that too. Just gentle words to sooth the troubled minds of simpletons. They will be happy to know it worked though... maybe you should tweet them the good news?
Originally posted by iceman24567
Yes like i said i will ignore your delusional stance on the subject because your opinion matter little when the DC made it clear his history for the most part is the same andways Batman win everytime after a brutal fight
You are the delusional one buddy. Nothing I've said is wrong or even remotely up for debate, they are simply the facts. The history of characters who's story lines intersect with Batman's were changed, which by extension changes Batman's history. Batman's backstory can't be the same without the status quo for every character remain in the same as it was pre Flash Point, which we know is not the case. My conclusion is the only possible conclusion that can be reached with the facts such as they are. It's a freaking domino effect, you can't go back and change something without effecting everything around it, and Batman is not immune. The history of every DC character was changed, and if if DC made no tweaks at all to Batman (they did FYI) his history would still have been altered by extension of the changes made to all the characters he has crossed paths with. Explain your delusional fanboy rational to me, I really want to know how you can possibly justify your inane belief?
Originally posted by srankmissingninExplain why i believe Batmans history for the most part is the same? Besides the fact that DC out right said his history is more or less the same? Please shut up and go troll somebody else. Batman wins 10/10
]Explain your delusional fanboy rational to me, I really want to know how you can possibly justify your inane belief?
Tbf, Srank has a valid point.
DC has said that Batman's history is more or less the same and arcs from Tomasi and Synder's and Morrison's previous runs will be hearkened back as stories progress. The general spirit of Batman's rich history will be retained.
That being said, when you really think about it, the fact that everyone else's history has been effected, drastically in some cases, inadvertently effects Batman. Take Superman for example. His entire history and continuity had been completely revamped to the extreme, so those classic Batman/Superman team ups? They probably didn't happen at all or have been so altered, it's not worth bringing up. Batman, aka Batgod, as he was portrayed in Morrison's JLA? Well, the JLA's history has been completely revamped something fierce so those feats and adventures and whatnot can probably be safely dismissed for "current/DCnU Batman".
It's a massive mind phuck if you really sit down and think just how much even Batman and Green Lantern's history has been irrevocably altered (as they're the two characters who are "mostly untouched" by Flashpoint's reboot) based on what has drastically changed.
Batman, conventionally, is superior to Punisher (though I do think Frank can make it interesting depending on the setting/scenario). But you'd be playing hell trying to prove what is canon for current Batman as even things as recent as Batman RIP, Final Crisis, and the initial introduction of Batman Inc, have been changed due to the rippling effect of DC's reboot.
Basically, it boils down to how much you want to put stock in the intent/generalized view of Batman as he pertains to his previous incarnation (mostly the same at core) or if you prefer to deal with canon feats. I can see both sides.
Originally posted by iceman24567
Explain why i believe Batmans history for the most part is the same? Besides the fact that DC out right said his history is more or less the same? Please shut up and go troll somebody else. Batman wins 10/10
Are you really so obtuse or is this an act? I find it difficult to believe you could possibly be this stupid, but I suppose anything is possible.
What I want you to explain is how - knowing that the history of every single character connected to Batman has been drastically altered - you believe it is even a possibility that Batman's history is more less the same. Superman's history has been drastically altered which rewrites all his interactions with Batman. Ditto for the every JLA member, the JLA team as a whole, the Titans and the Outsiders ect ect ect ect. Hell there isn't even a JSA in the DCnU! The changes to every other character in the DC U changes Batman's history as a side effect. It doesn't mater what DC said, it is an impossibility for Batman's history to be "more or less the same" because every character connect to him was reboot which in turn rewrites his own history. I'm right. You're wrong. It's black and white, there isn't two sides to this.
gotta agree with ice man, dc has flat out stated that batmans pre flashpoint history is still in continuity, any changes he had are minor at best. plus jla showed that batman was capable of jumping 20 feet in the air, with that leg strength he'll probably kick punishers head off if he doesnt hold back.
Originally posted by JakeTheBanknice post..
Tbf, Srank has a valid point.DC has said that Batman's history is more or less the same and arcs from Tomasi and Synder's and Morrison's previous runs will be hearkened back as stories progress. The general spirit of Batman's rich history will be retained.
That being said, when you really think about it, the fact that everyone else's history has been effected, drastically in some cases, inadvertently effects Batman. Take Superman for example. His entire history and continuity had been completely revamped to the extreme, so those classic Batman/Superman team ups? They probably didn't happen at all or have been so altered, it's not worth bringing up. Batman, aka Batgod, as he was portrayed in Morrison's JLA? Well, the JLA's history has been completely revamped something fierce so those feats and adventures and whatnot can probably be safely dismissed for "current/DCnU Batman".
It's a massive mind phuck if you really sit down and think just how much even Batman and Green Lantern's history has been irrevocably altered (as they're the two characters who are "mostly untouched" by Flashpoint's reboot) based on what has drastically changed.
Batman, conventionally, is superior to Punisher (though I do think Frank can make it interesting depending on the setting/scenario). But you'd be playing hell trying to prove what is canon for current Batman as even things as recent as Batman RIP, Final Crisis, and the initial introduction of Batman Inc, have been changed due to the rippling effect of DC's reboot.
Basically, it boils down to how much you want to put stock in the intent/generalized view of Batman as he pertains to his previous incarnation (mostly the same at core) or if you prefer to deal with canon feats. I can see both sides.
Originally posted by iceman24567
Explain why i believe Batmans history for the most part is the same? Besides the fact that DC out right said his history is more or less the same? Please shut up and go troll somebody else. Batman wins 10/10
I normally find myself agreeing with you in most threads.
Not in this one. Really, listen to reason lest you want to sound like a fool.
Originally posted by Eon BlueI get what he's saying but what evidence shows that his history is drastically change i mean he obviously isn't the same exact person post reboot we can't low ball him this early 😬
I normally find myself agreeing with you in most threads.Not in this one. Really, listen to reason lest you want to sound like a fool.