Originally posted by Sirius77
Then why was it the same color as the energy around LMV's hands?I don't recall Nova's energy "projections" being anything but yellow or blue.
Also, his energy comes from his hands, so whether his fists are opened or closed doesn't really matter imo. Also, it should be noted that it was a construct in the shape of a pentagram of the same color as the one in front of Nova that nearly killed the annihilators at the end of the comic.
Regardless, I feel that this conversation is about to get really subjective.
The red colour is the residual glow effect from Mar-vell's energy amped punch impacting, overpowering and shattering Nova's shields.
You haven't explained why the "energy blast" is being shattered. Are you suggesting Mar-Vell throws energy constructs at people, and it shatters when it impacts them? 😂
All of Mar-Vell's energy blast thus far in TI were opened palmed and actually aimed at the target (e.g., Magus, Surfer, and giant Annihilator energy blast). The scene we're talking about looked nothing like his typical blast or even a typical blast in comics in general. Energy blast are actually aimed at the target, not the ground like Mar-Vell's punch.
Originally posted by vince_slice
The red colour is the residual glow effect from Mar-vell's energy amped punch impacting, overpowering and shattering Nova's shields.You haven't explained why the "energy blast" is being shattered. Are you suggesting Mar-Vell throws energy constructs at people, and it shatters when it impacts them? 😂
All of Mar-Vell's energy blast thus far in TI were opened palmed and actually aimed at the target (e.g., Magus, Surfer, and giant Annihilator energy blast). The scene we're talking about looked nothing like his typical blast or even a typical blast in comics in general. Energy blast are actually aimed at the target, not the ground like Mar-Vell's punch.
So his "punch" turned Nova's entire shield red? I really don't see that happening. Do have a scan in which Nova's shields have been projected outside of his body in the form of a circle and turned the color of the energy hitting it? If not, then I don't see how that can be valid.
Yeah. Why not? He made a construct that nearly killed the annihilators.
The giant annihilator energy blast wasn't from his palms man...
That's why I referred to it as a construct. I'm not trying to split hairs, but characters like Hal Jordan have been depicted as being in positions reminiscent of individuals throwing balls as well, but generally he isn't punching, or technically even throwing, but rather directing a construct. Of course it could be argued conversely by someone with a different perspective on the art, but I already said that I had a feeling that this was going to get highly subjective.
Also, it isn't as if LMV is spiderman and his fingers need to be in a certain place or position in order for the desired projectile to flow. The energy simply comes from his hands. Like I said, I feel that is irrelevant.
My entire argument is that this is not a physical punch. I can't even see an argument being made as the converse with so much explicit energy floating around, hitting the target, dancing around in the background, and obviously not belonging to Nova.
Originally posted by Sirius77
So his "punch" turned Nova's entire shield red? I really don't see that happening. Do have a scan in which Nova's shields have been projected outside of his body in the form of a circle and turned the color of the energy hitting it? If not, then I don't see how that can be valid.Yeah. Why not? He made a construct that nearly killed the annihilators.
The giant annihilator energy blast wasn't from his palms man...
That's why I referred to it as a construct. I'm not trying to split hairs, but characters like Hal Jordan have been depicted as being in positions reminiscent of individuals throwing balls as well, but generally he isn't punching, or technically even throwing, but rather directing a construct. Of course it could be argued conversely by someone with a different perspective on the art, but I already said that I had a feeling that this was going to get highly subjective.
Also, it isn't as if LMV is spiderman and his fingers need to be in a certain place or position in order for the desired projectile to flow. The energy simply comes from his hands. Like I said, I feel that is irrelevant.
My entire argument is that this is not a physical punch. I can't even see an argument being made as the converse with so much explicit energy floating around, hitting the target, dancing around in the background, and obviously not belonging to Nova.
Like it matters whether Nova's shields show up physically or not in other comics? Different artists have different depictions of shields in comics (e.g., Thanos' shields range from being a shield like energy construct, round and surrounding his body, and even invisible). The scan clearly says Nova's shields are being breached, and the energy construct in front of him is being shattered. It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together that what's being shattered/breached is his shield. Plus this was Nova's shields at full power, so I wouldn't be surprised if they manifested physically.
When did Lord Mar-Vell become a GL and start creating energy constructs to throw at people? And technically if this were true (and it isn't), it wouldn't be considered an energy blast, because energy blasts aren't physical constructs that can be shattered. Energy blasts are energy blasts. Whose ever heard of an energy blast shattering? 😕
No that was not a energy construct that almost killed the Annihilators, that was clearly a huge energy blast/explosion. Yes, it was open palmed, you even see Mar-Vell's fingers stretched outward, don't make me post the scans again. But all you'll do is stretch the definition of "subjectivity" to it's limits again and interpret it as something totally far off.
How Mar-Vell typically energy blast isn't relevant? It clearly is, all of his energy blasts are open palmed and above all AIMED at the target. Let me repeat, energy blasts are aimed at the target. When Mar-Vell punched Nova his hand wasn't aimed at Nova, it was aimed downward toward the ground. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that Mar-Vell threw an energy amped punch at Nova?
Originally posted by vince_slice
Like it matters whether Nova's shields show up physically or not in other comics? Different artists have different depictions of shields in comics (e.g., Thanos' shields range from being a shield like energy construct, round and surrounding his body, and even invisible). The scan clearly says Nova's shields are being breached, and the energy construct in front of him is being shattered. It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together that what's being shattered/breached is his shield. Plus this was Nova's shields at full power, so I wouldn't be surprised if they manifested physically.When did Lord Mar-Vell become a GL and start creating energy constructs to throw at people? And technically if this were true (and it isn't), it wouldn't be considered an energy blast, because energy blasts aren't physical constructs that can be shattered. Energy blasts are energy blasts. Whose ever heard of an energy blast shattering? 😕
No that was not a energy construct that almost killed the Annihilators, that was clearly a huge energy blast/explosion. Yes, it was open palmed, you even see Mar-Vell's fingers stretched outward, don't make me post the scans again. But all you'll do is stretch the definition of "subjectivity" to it's limits again and interpret it as something totally far off.
How Mar-Vell typically energy blast isn't relevant? It clearly is, all of his energy blasts are open palmed and above all [b]AIMED at the target
. Let me repeat, energy blasts are aimed at the target. When Mar-Vell punched Nova his hand wasn't aimed at Nova, it was aimed downward toward the ground. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that Mar-Vell threw an energy amped punch at Nova? [/B]
You've made great points, but I'd stay away from saying "Plus this was Nova's shields at full power" 😉
Originally posted by dmills
You've made great points, but I'd stay away from saying "Plus this was Nova's shields at full power" 😉
I'm no where near as knowledgeable on Nova than you of course, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on anything. I remember The Worldmind mentioned something like "shield's at full" just before Mar-Vell's punch.
I know how much you love Nova. It's okay dude, Surfer (one of my fave characters) got tooled by Mar-Vell too. And technically Nova did last longer than Surfer against Mar-Vell 😉
Originally posted by vince_slice
Like it matters whether Nova's shields show up physically or not in other comics? Different artists have different depictions of shields in comics (e.g., Thanos' shields range from being a shield like energy construct, round and surrounding his body, and even invisible). The scan clearly says Nova's shields are being breached, and the energy construct in front of him is being shattered. It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together that what's being shattered/breached is his shield. Plus this was Nova's shields at full power, so I wouldn't be surprised if they manifested physically.When did Lord Mar-Vell become a GL and start creating energy constructs to throw at people? And technically if this were true (and it isn't), it wouldn't be considered an energy blast, because energy blasts aren't physical constructs that can be shattered. Energy blasts are energy blasts. Whose ever heard of an energy blast shattering? 😕
No that was not a energy construct that almost killed the Annihilators, that was clearly a huge energy blast/explosion. Yes, it was open palmed, you even see Mar-Vell's fingers stretched outward, don't make me post the scans again. But all you'll do is stretch the definition of "subjectivity" to it's limits again and interpret it as something totally far off.
How Mar-Vell typically energy blast isn't relevant? It clearly is, all of his energy blasts are open palmed and above all [b]AIMED at the target
. Let me repeat, energy blasts are aimed at the target. When Mar-Vell punched Nova his hand wasn't aimed at Nova, it was aimed downward toward the ground. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that Mar-Vell threw an energy amped punch at Nova? [/B]
Correction. It says that Nova's shields are being breached. It shows a big energy construct the same color as the energy around LMV's hands hitting Nova with red lightning dancing around in the background. If we want to go by artistic depiction, then it is exactly what I explained it to be.
He was never a GL, that was an analogy, and he manifested constructs/ projections various times throughout throughout TI. Which is why I said "energy construct". Energy constructs can and have shattered. If you don't feel comfortable using the GL example, then we can use Quasar.
You know what? You don't have to post it. I'll do it myself.
So he's opening his palm eh? Vell isn't even there. Again, it is a red construct in the shape of a pentagram with Vell's image on it. So I suppose I'm just being subjective calling this a construct and not Vell physically outstretching his hand and blasting someone.
It also really doesn't help your case that LMV and the rest of the "Revengers" had teleported away a couple pages before that due to the death of a life avatar (Thanos killed Drax).
The position of his hands in a freeze frame are entirely irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not it is an actual punch or not.
Actual punch:
Not an actual punch:
One has red energy surrounding it with a big red construct in front. The other does not. I really don't think it's as complicated as we're making it.
Originally posted by vince_slice
😆I'm no where near as knowledgeable on Nova than you of course, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on anything. I remember The Worldmind mentioned something like "shield's at full" just before Mar-Vell's punch.
I know how much you love Nova. It's okay dude, Surfer (one of my fave characters) got tooled by Mar-Vell too. And technically Nova did last longer than Surfer against Mar-Vell 😉
Shyte you're right. I stand corrected lol.
Originally posted by Sirius77
Correction. It [B]says that Nova's shields are being breached. It shows a big energy construct the same color as the energy around LMV's hands hitting Nova with red lightning dancing around in the background. If we want to go by artistic depiction, then it is exactly what I explained it to be.He was never a GL, that was an analogy, and he manifested constructs/ projections various times throughout throughout TI. Which is why I said "energy construct". Energy constructs can and have shattered. If you don't feel comfortable using the GL example, then we can use Quasar.
You know what? You don't have to post it. I'll do it myself.
So he's opening his palm eh? Vell isn't even there. Again, it is a red construct in the shape of a pentagram with Vell's image on it. So I suppose I'm just being subjective calling this a construct and not Vell physically outstretching his hand and blasting someone.
The position of his hands in a freeze frame are entirely irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not it is an actual punch or not.
Actual punch:
Not an actual punch:
One has red energy surrounding it with a big red construct in front. The other does not. I really don't think it's as complicated as we're making it. [/B]
Look at the scan of Mar-Vell's energy amped punch and now look at his second unamped punch on Nova. Look at Mar-Vell's body position and stance in both of them and compare. They are nearly identical, left arm raised up in both scans with fists clenched, right arm extended downward aiming at the ground in both indicating he swung his arm 😆.
I never said Mar-Vell was physically there when he almost killed the Annihilators. Regardless, his projection was, and you can clearly see his palms open and AIMED at the Annihilators before the blast. Whether he's physically there is irrelevant. The fact remains his hands were opened and aimed at the Annihilators, like all his other actual energy blasts.
Position of his hands irrelevant? Says who? You deem them irrelevant because it completely contradicts your opinion. Energy blasts are aimed at the person, not at the ground period (as if they just threw a punch). You can't account for this, so I'm not surprised you'd attempt to say it's irrelevant.
Mar-Vell is not like Quasar at all. Name another physical energy construct that Mar-vell created that was similar to the kind Quasar makes or GL's make in TI.
EDIT: Side by side comparison of body stances. Clearly Mar-Vell's body stances mirror each other as if he just swung his fists on both scans. One was amped by energy, the other wasn't.
Originally posted by vince_slice
Look at the scan of Mar-Vell's energy amped punch and now look at his second unamped punch on Nova. Look at Mar-Vell's body position and stance in both of them and compare. They are nearly identical, left arm raised up in both scans with fists clenched, right arm extended downward aiming at the ground in both indicating he swung his arm 😆.I never said Mar-Vell was physically there when he almost killed the Annihilators. Regardless, his projection was, and you can clearly see his palms open and AIMED at the Annihilators before the blast. Whether he's physically there is irrelevant. The fact remains his hands were opened and aimed at the Annihilators, like all his other actual energy blasts.
Position of his hands irrelevant? Says who? You deem them irrelevant because it completely contradicts your opinion. Energy blasts are aimed at the person, not at the ground period (as if they just threw a punch). You can't account for this, so I'm not surprised you'd attempt to say it's irrelevant.
Mar-Vell is not like Quasar at all. Name another physical energy construct that Mar-vell created that was similar to the kind Quasar makes or GL's make in TI.
So you're literally telling me that you see no difference between the two scans. That the energy, and construct in front of it are entirely irrelevant? Cool. I can see this was somewhat pointless.
Actually, you did:
Originally posted by vince_slice No that was not a energy construct that almost killed the Annihilators, that was clearly a huge energy blast/explosion. Yes, it was open palmed, you even see Mar-Vell's fingers stretched outward, don't make me post the scans again.
So you're trying to argue that he what, shot them from a universe away? He teleported back to the cancerverve a couple pages ago.
Not me, common sense, and the course of the argument. In baseball, the ball is also aimed as well, but the ending position is not the same by the end of the throw.
Also, who is talking about energy blasts here? I'm talking about constructs. Apparently you think that the construct that nearly killed the annihilators was "aimed" as well. Well, I don't believe that Vell has good enough "aim" to blast someone a universe away. Which is why I don't think has to "aim" when it comes to constructs like that. I believe that in the Nova scan, it was something akin to a throw. In the annihaltors scan, it was something akin to a bomb.
In the way that he makes energy constructs, yes he is. Okay, how many of these things are you asking me to name? There was one most of the times that he was present and actively harming someone. Including the ones that I've shown, the ones that held Namora in place, the construct of the makeshift energy IG on his hand when he was attempting to kill thanos in the necropsy ritual. I honestly don't know if I'm forgetting any.
Originally posted by Sirius77
So you're literally telling me that you see no difference between the two scans. That the energy, and construct in front of it are entirely irrelevant? Cool. I can see this was somewhat pointless.
Stop throwing straw mans, it's pathetic. I said there is a difference, one is Mar-Vell throwing an energy amped punch shattering Nova's shield (which fits the context of what's said on panel), the other is Mar-vell throwing a regular unamped punch. Read my posts carefully.
Actually, you did:
So where in that quote did I say Mar-Vell was physically there? I was clearly referring to his big red projection of himself. You know the one showing Mar-Vell's face and hands doing the magic incantation just before the giant explosion? Again, another straw man. Starting to sound desperate.
So you're trying to argue that he what, shot them from a universe away? He teleported back to the cancerverve a couple pages ago.
But yeah, another straw man? That's all you keep throwing at me now. How about you stop trying to misrepresent my opinion, and actual address it? He clearly somehow projected himself (via a spell) back into the 616 Universe to try and kill the Annihilators with that blast. He wasn't physically there though.
Not me, common sense, and the course of the argument. In baseball, the ball is also aimed as well, but the ending position is not the same by the end of the throw.
Throwing a physical energy construct is different than shooting an energy blast. Ironic since you just boasted about using common sense.
Also, who is talking about energy blasts here? I'm talking about constructs.
Originally posted by Sirius77
^
Nah, that was what appeared to be an energy blast. It was a big red ball of energy with lightning around it.
^ Sound familiar? Flip flopping your opinions doesn't make your argument stronger. Neither do throwing straw mans BTW.
Apparently you think that the construct that nearly killed the annihilators was "aimed" as well. Well, I don't believe that Vell has good enough "aim" to blast someone a universe away.
Which is why I don't think has to "aim" when it comes to constructs like that. I believe that in the Nova scan, it was something akin to a throw. In the annihaltors scan, it was something akin to a bomb.
Sure if you want to believe Mar-Vell likes to create physical energy constructs and throw them at people like a GL or Quasar be my guest. I'm 100% disagreeing with you though because it sounds outlandish to me.
In the way that he makes energy constructs, yes he is. Okay, how many of these things are you asking me to name? There was one most of the times that he was present and actively harming someone. Including the ones that I've shown, the ones that held Namora in place, the construct of the makeshift energy IG on his hand when he was attempting to kill thanos in the necropsy ritual. I honestly don't know if I'm forgetting any.
I remember those "constructs" and to me they don't look like physical energy constructs, but spell bindings and spell incantations, very similar to what Doctor Strange would use. It's consistent with the fact that Lord Mar-Vell was confirmed to use dark magic in TI.
Either way, bottom line is Mar-Vell threw an energy amped punch at Nova and it shattered his shields. PERIOD.
Originally posted by StoicIs Hulk allowed to use his healing factor ?
Now that all of that is all over, we can get back to what was being discussed, and that would be that this is a H2H contest, and not one where guys are able to amplify their punches with either Negaband force energy, mystical force energy, or an amalgamation of the two.