Originally posted by "Id"
Its not so much the slicing, as the effects it has if he stabs him with it. Blades molded from the creation engine neutralize/disrupts being with the power of creation.The blade can one shot the surfer if it lands cleanly.
Sounds like a powerful blade. Also sounds like a weapon along the same lines as Deathurges weapons which did cause harm to Surfer. Not sure about a 1 shot though.
Originally posted by Existere
^Yeah, and that same guy was then 'blunted' through matter manipulation by Ronan (if we're both talking about the fight in the Annihilators).
Yeah it was the mini series involving the Dire Wraiths. If an alpha level (i.e., Ronan) can do that, imagine what an alpha plus could do (i.e., Surfer). 😛
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Well, barring further details into their forging, the fact that they were forged in the first place would seem to detract from the notion that as pieces of the Creation Engine, they are completely immune to matter manipulation, reality warping, and energy itself.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Granting all that as truth, how were the blades forged in the first place... ?
Dunno. For the purposes of the fight though, it doesn't matter. You're trying to find a loophole here, but the evidence speaks otherwise. When they hurt Tao, Tao was an abstract level being, capable of rewriting reality. Surfer would be affected by them, no questions whatsoever. Removing them from Majestic's grasp, though far from easy, is a viable tactic. Suggesting that they could be transmuted or simply ignored is not.
Again though, it's dubious as to whether or not they're standard. But really, the fight hangs on them. With them, Majestic for a clear majority. Without them, Surfer for a clear majority. Anyone disregarding the swords doesn't understand them.
^ I don't know how you could possibly characterize my questions as loopholes. I think I'd be offended at such an insinuation if I weren't so confused by the left field nature of it. I never argued that the creation blades would not present a grave threat to Surfer. I'm questioning how invincible they are. Nobody has presented any hard evidence that they are immune to matter manipulation, reality warping or energy beyond vague references to their lofty origins.
It's the same exact argument that WW fanboys make concerning her bracers and how they're completely indestructible because they were forged from the shards of the legendary invincible Aegis. Except the Aegis being reduced to shards and being reshaped into her bracers belies their "invincibility." Same with these creation blades.
I'm happy to accept actual feats of invincibility where they resisted direct matter manipulation, reality warping and were immune to energy (even functionally). Just don't expect me to go wide-eyed at dubious assertions of hyperbolic reverse-projection.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Well, barring further details into their forging, the fact that they were forged in the first place would seem to detract from the notion that as pieces of the Creation Engine, they are completely immune to matter manipulation, reality warping, and energy itself.
Even so, the argument that matter manipulation would effect the Blades of Creation are highly questionable due to the fact that it did neutralize TAO's ability to warp reality, and it did repel Captain Atoms (amped by Void) energy blast. With a statement along the lines of "these blades can shave the edges of an electron".
If the blades simply held these statements, lacking these kinds showings than I would agree, that surfers energy & matter manipulating abilities would suffice to rid itself of the blades itself.
Simply put I cant recall a single instance, where the blades failed to measure up to matter manipulation, or repel energy.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I don't know how you could possibly characterize my questions as loopholes. I think I'd be offended at such an insinuation if I weren't so confused by the left field nature of it. I never argued that the creation blades would not present a grave threat to Surfer. I'm questioning how invincible they are. Nobody has presented any hard evidence that they are immune to matter manipulation, reality warping or energy beyond vague references to their lofty origins.It's the same exact argument that WW fanboys make concerning her bracers and how they're completely indestructible because they were forged from the shards of the legendary invincible Aegis. Except the Aegis being reduced to shards and being reshaped into her bracers belies their "invincibility." Same with these creation blades.
I'm happy to accept actual feats of invincibility where they resisted direct matter manipulation, reality warping and were immune to energy (even functionally). Just don't expect me to go wide-eyed at dubious assertions of hyperbolic reverse-projection.
I wasn't trying to insinuate anything, or offend. It was just a logical step in your line of thinking. By saying they were forged, and saying that this showed that they weren't entirely immune to matter manip. or energy manip., the next logical step is to question whether or not Surfer could do the same. It's not a bad line of thinking. If I didn't know about the Creation Blades, I might go there myself.
They may not be literally invincible, it seems we'll never actually have enough evidence to say for sure since WS is tanked. But I'm happy to accept the possibility. However, whether or not they are is a matter that isn't relevant to this thread, because they're very demonstrably beyond Surfer's ability to manipulate.
^ There's obviously a disconnect here that's leading to miscommunication. I've read posters saying that they cut through Tao, who was a reality warper. I've also read that they "neutralized" his reality warping powers. In what way did they "neutralize" them? Did they directly resist reality warping attempts by Tao? Or did they just wreck a being who was a reality warper who was shrugging off pretty much everything else thrown at him? If it was the former, I'd expect that to be stated outright, and it hasn't. If it was the latter, the conclusion that they're immune to Surfer's varied attempts to dispose of them doesn't necessarily follow.
Scans would be great. Explanations that tie directly into their invincibility would be sufficient. I've already read Captain Atom: Armaggedon where Zealot cleaves Captain Atom's energy blast. Reading that scene in isolation and what Zealot herself stated, the feat itself seemed more attributed to its abstract sharpness, rather than its invincibility. Between that and the unusual focus on the creation blades' lofty origins, that isn't sufficient for me to think they're virtually invincible.
I can appreciate that this conclusion should be informed by the Tao scene in question, but that Tao scene isn't clear to me at all. So I will continue to doubt their invincibility until then.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So I will continue to doubt their invincibility until then.
It's from a Wildcats issue, iirc. I'll check his respect thread, but I'm not sure they scans have surfaced on KMC. Your skepticism is commendable on the matter of invincibility. However, I do think that the question of absolute invincibility remains irrelevant to this thread, for reasons stated:
Originally posted by Digi
...I'm happy to accept the possibility [that they aren't invincible]. However, whether or not they are is a matter that isn't relevant to this thread, because they're very demonstrably beyond Surfer's ability to manipulate.
Having seen enough of the blades, I cannot fathom the possibility that Surfer could manipulate them in the slightest. This is personal opinion, though I feel as though the evidence exists to support me.