Stranger vs Uatu vs Odin

Originally posted by leonidas
wow, don't see you actually debate very often guy! nice to see. 🙂 anyway, gotta say i side a little more with nilihist in this thread. based on feats, seems odin should win. stranger seems to indicate he could beat uatu but at the same time seems to imply that uatu was there to force him to keep his word. weird. below, we see quasar doing very well against a rogue watcher. stranger shows up and together stranger and quasar take the watcher who ends up killing himself. but before he does he claims HE could have repulsed either quesar or stranger alone. guess it comes down to which scan you want to believe. 😛

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/862/quasar1514.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/85/quasar1515.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/quasar1516.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/4/quasar1517.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/quasar1518.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/quasar1519.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/quasar1520.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/197/quasar1521.jpg/

not a great showing for a watcher against quasar. in the next issue stranger gets his butt handed to him by overmind (who is quite powerful but still, seems stranger should have been able to take him--overmind couldn't do ANYTHING to quasar....) even in beyond i wasn't all that impressed. stranger would have beaten the heroes imo, but he wasn't doing it 'effortlessly'. least it didn't seem that way to me. there are other battles that can be looked at as well.

i guess i see these 3 as being very close. all have both good and lesser showings. for my money, i think odin has the more consistently high feats than either one and has certainly got the better battle feats. i tend to not put so much stock in dialogues or statements and based on what i've seen and read of them i'd have to go with odin=>uatu=>stranger imo.

i'm curious though about where uatu seems to have so clearly dismissed odin as beneath his notice because i remember a thor issue where the watcher was present in asgard and i walked away with the impression that odin didn't really dismiss him, but sort of suffered him to watch. it gave me the idea that odin could have removed him had he wished though it was a while ago so maybe i'm misremembering.....

fair as always leo

but again

stranger is perceived above uatu in beyond as uatu was in the two instances when he dissed odin

can't get around that and my pal nih didn't address my surfer analogy if ur gonna kid stranger why not norrin feel me

feats do count never said otherwise did u see the scans of beyond

uatu wasn't concerned with odin in thor believe during the reigning will double check

i don't believe odin isn't removing uatu or the stranger

Originally posted by Nihilist
No im right you just dont like it when anyone disagrees with any of you faves

Its called comics, and please show were i said Norrin defeats Stranger, i said Stranger struggled with norrin which is fact.

I did read it and Stranger even said he feared(the weak ass) group he faced.

And youre not being silly! as other posters have pointed also that Odin wins..it seems youre the one whos mind can never be changed when his fave characters are involved.

His feats, like his fight against Seth or Surtur with the twilghit sword..what have you proven on how Stranger/Uatu are more powerful other than hyperbole and space cheese.

So it means nothing here or compared to on panel facts

Sleep tight

i sleep well as my heart cries and makes it a better person that's a fact

never silly as u see others agree with me as some agree with u

high end feats i know those

did u see what the stranger did in beyond

hyperbole geez ur better than that

Originally posted by guy222
i sleep well as my heart cries and makes it a better person that's a fact

never silly as u see others agree with me as some agree with u

high end feats i know those

did u see what the stranger did in beyond

hyperbole geez ur better than that

Statements in comic mean nothing, Thanos didnt want to confront Hulk at one point yet wanted to face a well nourished Galactus...showings>>>statements.

Originally posted by guy222
as uatu was in the two instances when he dissed odin

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/1504/thorvol203802.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5565/thorvol203803.jpg
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4650/thorvol203809.jpg

What part of that scene indicates that Odin is inferior to Uatu exactly?

I know they had a recent interaction where Fraction's Odin yells at him like a maniac or something (Which is basically like all Thor/Odin do under him) but no inferiority in power was implied there either.

Originally posted by guy222
fair as always leo

but again

stranger is perceived above uatu in beyond as uatu was in the two instances when he dissed odin

can't get around that and my pal nih didn't address my surfer analogy if ur gonna kid stranger why not norrin feel me

feats do count never said otherwise did u see the scans of beyond

uatu wasn't concerned with odin in thor believe during the reigning will double check

i don't believe odin isn't removing uatu or the stranger

believe me, i'm not trying to get around anything, but can you tell me where those 2 instances where he dissed odin happened? cuz i'm still not sure i've ever seen that. i'm also not trying to lowball stranger. i'm just not convinced he could have taken out uatu as he seemed to imply in beyond. recreating a world is....sort of impressive, but nothing that would make me say he's above odin. what other feats (not dialogue) do you know of that make you say the stranger is so powerful? imo he's always been one of the more inconsistent 'cosmic' level guys.....

i know leo 🙂

i have the two instances on a dvd-r

happened during the reigning i believe don't recall then issue but posted the scan

happened again during the galactus seed saga

'do i have to battle the watchers again' --- how many did he fight what's the pact they made its interesting do i place em above odin and uatu i do

there's a reason uatu dismissed odin twice what do u think that reason is

its all how i perceive the stranger others also i am not trying to convince anyone who wins just stating a silly man's opinion 😛.... nihilist and others like odin to win nothing wrong with it the stranger doesn't have many feats odin does see i am fair 😛

my point about my friend on ict is he's the biggest odin supporter i know and he realizes odin or uatu cannot defeat the stranger and that speaks volume

Stranger should be >>>> orders of magnitude above Odin, but not seen anything impressive from him yet.

Still, Cosmics before parochial gods so: Stranger > Uatu >>> Odin

👆

Originally posted by janus77
Stranger should be >>>> orders of magnitude above Odin, but not seen anything impressive from him yet.

Still, Cosmics before parochial gods so: Stranger > Uatu >>> Odin

that's part of my issue with the stranger. he's not a true 'cosmic'. he's a collection of intelligences that somehow merged together and was given form. he's not an abstact. he's an evolved being and, according to his own words, a scientist. not sure why that would place him above odin.... 😕

and guy--i guess i'm just not seeing the whole 'dissing' of odin. 😬 and even if he did (though again i'm unaware of the exact context) that doesn't necessarily mean he is more powerful than odin, only that he was keeping to his role as a strict observer. as for the stranger battling the watcher--he could have been referencing the very scene i posted from quasar, where q and the stranger both tackled that rogue watcher....

personally, i see them all on the same tier, but using displayed feats as a gauge, i'd have to still stick with odin. 🙂

there are limits to the applicability of using feats to determine relative power. not all characters have feats to go with their implied standing in the order of things.

significantly, Galactus has been humbled so many times (recently the indignity of getting head-butted by a one-eyed pensioner!), that the case could be made that he's probably not powerful enough to take on a Destroyer armoured Odin. Yet the order of things is such (or was such, as the confusing mess about the "cosmic egg" seems to imply a whole new fantasy backstory) that Galactus could literally eat Odin and Asgard as an aperitif before he consumes the universe and fulfils his "purpose".

Originally posted by janus77
there are limits to the applicability of using feats to determine relative power. not all characters have feats to go with their implied standing in the order of things.

significantly, Galactus has been humbled so many times (recently the indignity of getting head-butted by a one-eyed pensioner!), that the case could be made that he's probably not powerful enough to take on a Destroyer armoured Odin. Yet the order of things is such (or was such, as the confusing mess about the "cosmic egg" seems to imply a whole new fantasy backstory) that Galactus could literally eat Odin and Asgard as an aperitif before he consumes the universe and fulfils his "purpose".

implied power generally manifests at some point though. there have to be SOME feats to justify the implication. what feats of the stranger make you think he should be above odin? his origin is decidedly NOT cosmic. he's certainly not an abstract. so...... what makes you rate him so highly?

Originally posted by leonidas
implied power generally manifests at some point though. there have to be SOME feats to justify the implication. what feats of the stranger make you think he should be above odin? his origin is decidedly NOT cosmic. he's certainly not an abstract. so...... what makes you rate him so highly?

I think Galactus is the go-to guy for humbling the mighty situations or to usher in the next great threat (have Galactus hang around and look worried, boom new character credentials established), so there's little scope to really place The Stranger in the limelight.

I seem to recall that he was once chose to be one of the faces of the LT, which implies serious high-order standing in itself (I don't see Rhino being the fourth face ... though maybe Sue Storm should be the bosom of the LT!).

Also, as Guy222 wrote, he's fought Watchers and triumphed (I think I saw that in a scan or two), so that places him above Uatu, imo.

You need interesting mythologies and "furniture" (associated characters, antagonists/protagonists etc) in order to really bring out the feats and Odin has a well defined and rich mythology, which has in the past provided plenty of opportunities for immense feats.

Stranger is poorly defined, his background seems to have shifted greatly and his associated characters aren't of an order of power that would give him opportunities to both demonstrate serious power whilst retaining dramatic interest.

Originally posted by leonidas
implied power generally manifests at some point though. there have to be SOME feats to justify the implication. what feats of the stranger make you think he should be above odin? his origin is decidedly NOT cosmic. he's certainly not an abstract. so...... what makes you rate him so highly?

Wait, wasn't the "Stranger is a collection of billions of people" origin proven to be a lie? There is still no confirmed origin story for him.

He most definitely is a cosmic though (see the IG fiasco) and the LT said Stranger could have been his fourth visage.

Originally posted by janus77
It should manifest, but that would require more comic time for the character and high-end beings have very little dramatic utility.

I think Galactus is the go-to guy for humbling the mighty situations or to usher in the next great threat (have Galactus hang around and look worried, boom new character credentials established), so there's little scope to really place The Stranger in the limelight.

I seem to recall that he was once chose to be one of the faces of the LT, which implies serious high-order standing in itself (I don't see Rhino being the fourth face ... though maybe Sue Storm should be the bosom of the LT!).

Also, as Guy222 wrote, he's fought Watchers and triumphed (I think I saw that in a scan or two), so that places him above Uatu, imo.

You need interesting mythologies and "furniture" (associated characters, antagonists/protagonists etc) in order to really bring out the feats and Odin has a well defined and rich mythology, which has in the past provided plenty of opportunities for immense feats.

Stranger is poorly defined, his background seems to have shifted greatly and his associated characters aren't of an order of power that would give him opportunities to both demonstrate serious power whilst retaining dramatic interest.

that's all well and good and i get the lack of appearances and such, but there still needs to be SOME proof. 😬 if he did fight a watcher, and win, alone, i've not seen the scan. THAT would be some proof. as such, there just really isn't any support for him aside from some narration that hasn't been supported by feats.

as for the lt comment:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/56330167.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/864/26540149.jpg/

😕

i've never really understood why people make a big deal of it. it's utterly ambiguous and and really doesn't seem to say anything at all to me about the stranger and his level of power though i'll happily listen to peoples' interpretations of the scene.

again, i don't get the stranger, and don't really see why people rate him so highly.

@zop--if that origin was retconned, i've not seen it and would love to know where that happened.

Originally posted by leonidas
@zop--if that origin was retconned, i've not seen it and would love to know where that happened.

I was referring to the Silver Surfer arc (late 80s early 90s) issues 27-31 I believe, when the Surfer confronted Stranger and asked him about his lifestyle/origin because the Surfer was feeling down and out about his solitary role in the universe. The Stranger told him the "composite being consisting of billions" story and the Surfer called him out on that lie, then he told him "alien from alt dimension" (I think) story and again the Surfer called him on the lie, then the Stranger got fed up with the questions and they started fighting.

I got the issues, I just need to find which one the confrontation took place in. Give me a few.

Here's the scan, found it too late to edit my post :

Being a "cosmic being" in of itself doesn't automatically make you > a Skyfather. Not sure why that seems to be a popular belief around here. Based on feats, Odin in his prime had showings that rivaled that of Galactus' own, yet people got all up in arms over the idea that Classic Odin would even challenge Galactus due to how important Galactus is in the grand scheme of things. Hell, Galactus fared better than Odin in Mighty Thor recently and even that wasn't enough for some people.

Yea, screw that Cosmic biased bullshit. Can't believe it's still around, even in a Post Chaos War world.

Originally posted by Nihilist
No im right you just dont like it when anyone disagrees with any of you faves

Its called comics, and please show were i said Norrin defeats Stranger, i said Stranger struggled with norrin which is fact.

I did read it and Stranger even said he feared(the weak ass) group he faced.

And youre not being silly! as other posters have pointed also that Odin wins..it seems youre the one whos mind can never be changed when his fave characters are involved.

His feats, like his fight against Seth or Surtur with the twilghit sword..what have you proven on how Stranger/Uatu are more powerful other than hyperbole and space cheese.

So it means nothing here or compared to on panel facts

Sleep tight

The thing people have to realize is, the Stranger has had one "ok" showing and lots of questionable showings for a being of his supposed rank and power in the cosmic hierarchy.

The ONE "ok" showing was during the IG affair when he, Galactus and Eon took it to Thanos w/IG in a stupendous triple team attack. Meanwhile Odin and the Skyfathers were stuck in Asgard. That's it. His other showings have him struggling with the X-men, Silver Surfer/Super Skrull, Pluto and the Overmind! The freaking craptacular Overmind! Odin could literally ONE shot those people.

Regarding Uatu and the Watchers, it's a little more murky. They have displayed some cool things on panel power and feat wise, but their fights are lackluster because they avoid combat by their very nature. The Quasar vs Utmo (?) fight was pure PIS. Utmo could have warped Quasar into a rat and stomped him yet he didn't and resorted to PUNCHING him and acting like he was the bald, white version of the Hulk!