Super Smash Bros. Wii U

Originally posted by Sacred 117
I know it's a bit late, but about this...

Fanfiction concept: In the last struggle to save the Smash multiverse, all of the Smash Bros., friends, enemies, brothers, and rivals alike, banded together in a collective effort to avert this great threat to all. Naturally, this meant that Fox and Wolf had joined arms once again, but this time, unlike before, Wolf had actually given his life during the battle. However, his sacrifice would not live and die in transient memory, in memoriam of his adversary turned ally, Fox, during the years between then and now, had respectfully learned from his lifelong adversary, who in the end was his friend.

F**k, I don't know. I'm just kinda half-ass spitballing here. haermm

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Oh yeah, saw that the other day. Pretty funny, and I liked his Donkey Kong expression toward the end.

So, I'm guessing this is Sakurai's excuse for not bringing Mewtwo back?

http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=237943

Trouble ripping stuff from Melee? Didn't stop him from bringing back certain stages from that game or Dr. Mario (and I thought every character was being made from scratch), not to mention some of it contradicts other things he's said, besides other contradictions made before like him first saying the 3DS wouldn't hold the game back, and then it later being the reason for cutting Ice Climbers. Confirmed for being terrible at making excuses.

I didn't see DK in there.

I f**king agree with you, man. Honestly, why the hell was Duck Hunt Dog in the game?! Seriously, what about characters like Ridley, K. Rool, or Krystal who have been demanded for YEARS?! Forgetting about THEM, Director?! I see no reason for two-thirds of an obscure nobody (Seriously, he's described as having an "unseen gunman"😉 could possibly take priority over them.

Also, I thought we were all but done with clones at this point, yet you bring back Dr. Mario instead of Mewtwo, and feel that it's some how absolutely necessary to include Dark Pit? Is it that important to potentially diminish the quality of the game just to overindulge in your own previous work?!

And I know none of this is the result of running short on ideas. I love Smash. I really do, and I know I'll love this one as well, but given the amount of foresight I'm provided with this time around, I can't help but feel vehemently frustrated with some of the decisions being made. Granted, there are so few of these, they all matter significantly.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Ironically, in that one live action adaptation of Smash called There Will Be Brawl (is on youtube), Wolf died during the battle, so I guess your quickly thought of fan-fic actually fits as far as that. 😛

Is it worth checking out?

Hey, Duck Hunt Dog is awesome. You shut your mouth.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
I didn't see DK in there.

I f**king agree with you, man. Honestly, why the hell was Duck Hunt Dog in the game?! Seriously, what about characters like Ridley, K. Rool, or Krystal who have been demanded for YEARS?! Forgetting about THEM, Director?! I see no reason for two-thirds of an obscure nobody (Seriously, he's described as having an "unseen gunman"😉 could possibly take priority over them.

Also, I thought we were all but done with clones at this point, yet you bring back Dr. Mario instead of Mewtwo, and feel that it's some how absolutely necessary to include Dark Pit? Is it that important to potentially diminish the quality of the game just to overindulge in your own previous work?!

And I know none of this is the result of running short on ideas. I love Smash. I really do, and I know I'll love this one as well, but given the amount of foresight I'm provided with this time around, I can't help but feel vehemently frustrated with some of the decisions being made. Granted, there are so few of these, they all matter significantly.

Kinda done complaining/ranting about the entire roster itself at this point. Will say though that at first I thought the top popular choices like those you mentioned would be more likely for next game(s) down the line if they weren't already in the current installment, due to them possibly running out of ideas and having no other choice but to include them at that point for increased sales. Sadly however, that is not the case, as there will always be those certain new characters/IPs that pop up between each Smash/gaming gen, practically guaranteeing the next sword-wielding pretty boy or waifu from some RPG (whether they're clones or unique fighters), over those older characters people have been waiting for the longest to have or get back, unless they're purely of retro status like Duck Hunt Dog (was not against his inclusion btw, and as mentioned, was still a good choice).

Disappointing IMO, but it is what it is.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Is it worth checking out?

Originally posted by Sacred 117
I didn't see DK in there.

I f**king agree with you, man. Honestly, why the hell was Duck Hunt Dog in the game?! Seriously, what about characters like Ridley, K. Rool, or Krystal who have been demanded for YEARS?! Forgetting about THEM, Director?! I see no reason for two-thirds of an obscure nobody (Seriously, he's described as having an "unseen gunman"😉 could possibly take priority over them.

Also, I thought we were all but done with clones at this point, yet you bring back Dr. Mario instead of Mewtwo, and feel that it's some how absolutely necessary to include Dark Pit? Is it that important to potentially diminish the quality of the game just to overindulge in your own previous work?!

And I know none of this is the result of running short on ideas. I love Smash. I really do, and I know I'll love this one as well, but given the amount of foresight I'm provided with this time around, I can't help but feel vehemently frustrated with some of the decisions being made. Granted, there are so few of these, they all matter significantly.

Duck hunt is an awesome addition. I remember that son of a ***** laughing at me and my brother many years ago and he randomly turns up in pop culture all over the place today. Ridley, K. Rool and Krystal? In a random census of adults, Duck Hunt would probably be more well known. He's trying to add to the Smash fan base and not just add to the fan service. For example:

Greninja: Appeals to people who just started indulging in the Pokémon series and attracts a new generation of Pokémon trainers.

Miis and fitness trainer: Draws in people who had a Wii manly for exercise purposes.

Megaman, sonic, Pacman: You can guess.

Duck Hunt Dog: Retro Nes Gamers who have forgotten about Nintendo and mainly play LOL

Rosalina: Children who started to play Mario during the Galaxy series. (and I think they just wanted more girls)

Palutena/Dark Pit: Sakura's selfish desires to promote Kid Icarus

Robin/Lucina: 3DS gamers who really got into Awakening but haven't really explored the rest of Nintendo.

Doctor Mario: I haven't the slightest clue.... I don't even want him. Its a mystery.

Etc.

Now lets take a look:

Ridley: People who played Super Metroid who are already going to get the game, because you only play Metroid if you are into Nintendo.

K. Rool: Ever heard of "Its on like Donkey Kong?" Yes! Everyone has. And everyone knows Donkey Kong is in this game. And if you buy the Country or 64 series, congratulations, you are part of a small demographic that knows who King K. Rool is. And odds are if you bought the Country series then your probably going to buy Super Smash. So why bother spending Money to put K. Rool in? For a demograph that is almost certainly going to buy the game? Nintendo would lose money. Its all about the money.

Krystal: Only die hard fans know of Krystal. I only played 64, most smashers I know only played Star Fox 64. The Die Hard fans are also going to buy smash regardless if Krystal is in it. Why spend the money?

To clarify, I'm not against Duck Hunt's inclusion. I'm just a little thrown by his apparent importance over others. He'll probably grow on me and all, but I kinda need to get this confusion/frustion off. (By the way, I had no idea he had somehow become relevant again, so I guess I withdraw some of my previous statements.)

Gecko, you make a solid, concise point, but given the amount of stayed fanservice to have taken place, it's a little surprising to not see some of them. I feel that, perhaps, they could have possibly made up for some of the previous disappointments.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Duck hunt is an awesome addition. I remember that son of a ***** laughing at me and my brother many years ago and he randomly turns up in pop culture all over the place today. Ridley, K. Rool and Krystal? In a random census of adults, Duck Hunt would probably be more well known. He's trying to add to the Smash fan base and not just add to the fan service. For example:

Greninja: Appeals to people who just started indulging in the Pokémon series and attracts a new generation of Pokémon trainers.

Miis and fitness trainer: Draws in people who had a Wii manly for exercise purposes.

Megaman, sonic, Pacman: You can guess.

Duck Hunt Dog: Retro Nes Gamers who have forgotten about Nintendo and mainly play LOL

Rosalina: Children who started to play Mario during the Galaxy series. (and I think they just wanted more girls)

Palutena/Dark Pit: Sakura's selfish desires to promote Kid Icarus

Robin/Lucina: 3DS gamers who really got into Awakening but haven't really explored the rest of Nintendo.

Doctor Mario: I haven't the slightest clue.... I don't even want him. Its a mystery.

Etc.

Now lets take a look:

Ridley: People who played Super Metroid who are already going to get the game, because you only play Metroid if you are into Nintendo.

K. Rool: Ever heard of "Its on like Donkey Kong?" Yes! Everyone has. And everyone knows Donkey Kong is in this game. And if you buy the Country or 64 series, congratulations, you are part of a small demographic that knows who King K. Rool is. And odds are if you bought the Country series then your probably going to buy Super Smash. So why bother spending Money to put K. Rool in? For a demograph that is almost certainly going to buy the game? Nintendo would lose money. Its all about the money.

Krystal: Only die hard fans know of Krystal. I only played 64, most smashers I know only played Star Fox 64. The Die Hard fans are also going to buy smash regardless if Krystal is in it. Why spend the money?

On K. Rool, this game actually has the Kremling enemies in Smash Run mode despite them not having been used in years (including but not limited to their absence in Retro Studio's reboot games), so it was within reason for once to want/hope/expect the Kremling leader K. Rool in some form. Regardless, it's good to see not everyone from Nintendo has forgotten them/the Rare era. The king is also pretty well known/iconic from that one computer animated TV series of DKC.

Krystal... I don't have anything particularly to say in defense of her, so I guess you got me there. Doesn't help either that she's often been attributed to the slow progressive death of Star Fox after 64, not that I think she herself is to blame for all it, but ya know. I've often only seen her wanted because others have argued that using her staff from Star Fox Adventures would make her unique, but well with Palutena, we already have a staff user now, who makes better use of a staff than she ever did anyhow. And for the next Smash, I doubt her inclusion would be as much a desire amongst the fanbase as getting Wolf back even, who I prefer over her as mentioned before, and y'all called me a furry. lol

Originally posted by Sacred 117
To clarify, I'm not against Duck Hunt's inclusion. I'm just a little thrown by his apparent importance over others. He'll probably grow on me and all, but I kinda need to get this confusion/frustion off. (By the way, I had no idea he had somehow become relevant again, so I guess I withdraw some of my previous statements.)

Gecko, you make a solid, concise point, but given the amount of stayed fanservice to have taken place, it's a little surprising to not see some of them. I feel that, perhaps, they could have possibly made up for some of the previous disappointments.

Agreed on the rest.

Personally I will stop buying Smash games if they ever put K. Rool into the game, awful character 😉

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
See where you're coming from on all this and pretty much agree, though to be fair with Ridley, even though he prolly wouldn't be quite as known as Duck Hunt Dog amongst a random group of adults (despite also making his debut on the NES), he's appeared in some pop culture too (around one minute or so in for that example), and being in the things he's been in outside Metroid such as Dead or Alive Dimensions, that one mini-game in Nintendo Land, and Smash itself has made him a fairly well known enough Nintendo all-star even to those who don't really play the series he's from. Smash especially, with him having been in all its games thus far in some form (appearing on the background of a stage in Smash 64 like Dedede did at the time, sticking out in Melee's intro like a sore thumb, and being two bosses in Brawl). Becoming a playable character in this game would've been sensible progression with that said, given his history in the series. (hey, Charizard and Little Mac went from being an assist trophy/pokeball to later being characters themselves, so anything's possible)

On K. Rool, this game actually has the Kremling enemies in Smash Run mode despite them not having been used in years (including but not limited to their absence in Retro Studio's reboot games), so it was within reason for once to want/hope/expect the Kremling leader K. Rool in some form. Regardless, it's good to see not everyone from Nintendo has forgotten them/the Rare era. The king is also pretty well known/iconic from that one computer animated TV series of DKC.

Krystal... I don't have anything particularly to say in defense of her, so I guess you got me there. Doesn't help either that she's often been attributed to the slow progressive death of Star Fox after 64, not that I think she herself is to blame for all it, but ya know. I've often only seen her wanted because others have argued that using her staff from Star Fox Adventures would make her unique, but well with Palutena, we already have a staff user now, who makes better use of a staff than she ever did anyhow. And for the next Smash, I doubt her inclusion would be as much a desire amongst the fanbase as getting Wolf back even, who I prefer over her as mentioned before, and y'all called me a furry. lol

Of all the inclusions, I would think DHD would be one of the ones to be the least appalled by, but whatever. And he became relevant again before his reveal in SSB4? News to me.

Agreed on the rest.

Like I said, I don't appal DHD. I was just kinda blindsided because of the aforementioned letdowns prior to his discovery.

Honestly, I'm a little torn about Ridley. On one hand, there's the argument that it would potentially remove potency and imposition of his character which makes him so... grand. On the other hand, size isn't much of a reason to exclude him. Hell, it didn't stop Bowser. Besides, I would play the f**k out of Ridley, and it does seem as if he's been foreshadowed for the entire series.

As for K. Rool, I feel his inclusion would be more about providing desired content to the game rather than trying to sell to a certain audience, who, by the way, is likely the same audience that knew DHD. To address Gecko's statement, I wouldn't call the Rare Gen a "small demographic". Me, you, him, and many others can vouche for that.

On Krystal's end, I agree that she has an unfortunate, albeit coincidental association with qualitative decline of the Star Fox series. However, to paraphrase JonTron, Assault had genuine desire and drive, but half of its core mechanic weighed it down. In short, none of that is her fault. Still, with her absence now adjoined by Wolf's, it's kind of a shot to the dick. 🙁 I feel the same way you do about his departure. Hell, he was a better addition than Falco ever was. Though, I'm not asking for Falco to go. Star Fox has suffered enough, as far as that's concerned.

As many of you know, each of the new characters have a certain picture with them and other Smash Bros. characters done in their art style.

If Rayman was a playable character, this would be just perfect for him.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Duck hunt is an awesome addition. I remember that son of a ***** laughing at me and my brother many years ago and he randomly turns up in pop culture all over the place today. Ridley, K. Rool and Krystal? In a random census of adults, Duck Hunt would probably be more well known. He's trying to add to the Smash fan base and not just add to the fan service. For example:

I think you are looking at this the entirely wrong way. Yes, those three characters would primarily be added for fan service. But here is the thing, Smash Bros is ultimately a game entirely about fan service! It about seeing all these great Nintendo characters duke it out.

Also let's not kid ourselves, I doubt DHD (who I think is a good addition) or Wii Fit Trainer (less of one) are really going to expand the fanbase.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
practically guaranteeing the next sword-wielding pretty boy or waifu from some RPG (whether they're clones or unique fighters),

You rippin on Shulk boy! Don't make me get out the switch. 😛

Seriously though, I think Shulk is a great addition. Probably the best outside of Megaman to SSB4.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Like I said, I don't appal DHD. I was just kinda blindsided because of the aforementioned letdowns prior to his discovery.

Honestly, I'm a little torn about Ridley. On one hand, there's the argument that it would potentially remove potency and imposition of his character which makes him so... grand. On the other hand, size isn't much of a reason to exclude him. Hell, it didn't stop Bowser. Besides, I would play the f**k out of Ridley, and it does seem as if he's been foreshadowed for the entire series.

As for K. Rool, I feel his inclusion would be more about providing desired content to the game rather than trying to sell to a certain audience, who, by the way, is likely the same audience that knew DHD. To address Gecko's statement, I wouldn't call the Rare Gen a "small demographic". Me, you, him, and many others can vouche for that.

On Krystal's end, I agree that she has an unfortunate, albeit coincidental association with qualitative decline of the Star Fox series. However, to paraphrase JonTron, Assault had genuine desire and drive, but half of its core mechanic weighed it down. In short, none of that is her fault. Still, with her absence now adjoined by Wolf's, it's kind of a shot to the dick. 🙁 I feel the same way you do about his departure. Hell, he was a better addition than Falco ever was. Though, I'm not asking for Falco to go. Star Fox has suffered enough, as far as that's concerned.

Even with the arguments of what Rids becoming playable could take away from in terms of his potency or imposingness, he was still one of the easiest most forgettable bosses in Brawl, in execution (barring the awesome remix of his music theme), so would it really be a real/major loss even if it were the case? I wouldn't think so, but it's something I generally agree to disagree with some people on. And others saying he would be too powerful as a playable with what he can do is just cute/flattering if anything, considering those canonically far more powerful than him that have already been on the roster.

Yeah, Rare in its heyday wasn't something with just some small niche fanbase. Hell, the Donkey Kong Countries were even more successful than the Mario platformers at the time which made Miyamoto butthurt, and I think is why he doesn't think too positively of the Kremlings/K. Rool based on what I remember him saying about 'em.

Pretty much agree. I actually appreciate what SF Assault tried to do, even if most of it was badly executed like the on-foot gameplay feeling very robotic and stuff. Command was far worse though, with endings that were fan fiction level quality and everything.

Originally posted by ares834
I think you are looking at this the entirely wrong way. Yes, those three characters would primarily be added for fan service. But here is the thing, Smash Bros is ultimately a game entirely about fan service! It about seeing all these great Nintendo characters duke it out.

Also let's not kid ourselves, I doubt DHD (who I think is a good addition) or Wii Fit Trainer (less of one) are really going to expand the fanbase.

Originally posted by ares834
You rippin on Shulk boy! Don't make me get out the switch. 😛

Seriously though, I think Shulk is a great addition. Probably the best outside of Megaman to SSB4.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
I didn't see DK in there.

Also, I thought we were all but done with clones at this point, yet you bring back Dr. Mario instead of Mewtwo, and feel that it's some how absolutely necessary to include Dark Pit? Is it that important to potentially diminish the quality of the game just to overindulge in your own previous work?!

Dr Mario and Dark Pit are just extras. They were last minute additions that were initially planned as alts that took little to no effort to give their own spots. So even if remained as just alt costumes, Mewtwo nor any other character still wouldn't have gotten in. It just would have been a smaller roster.

I understand people are upset that they're favorites aren't in. I'm not happy that Wolf got cut and that King K.Rool once again got left out. But I do think people are really misdirecting their frustrations by blaming the clones. I think if people wanna blame somebody, blame the Miis.

The problem is... Okay, look back at Brawl; the clones it had were fairly unique semi-clones, and the only unique character it cut was Mewtwo. This game on the other hand... cut Ice Climbers, Wolf, Pokemon Trainer/Squirtle/Ivysaur, Lucas, and Snake. Six more or less unique characters right there just gone, while some of the clones added this time to "pad the roster" they didn't even try mix up some of the moves with or give some unique elements, like they did with Lucas, Wolf, or Luigi.

While I wouldn't specifically blame the clones either for people's favorites not getting in compared to the Mii's, I can understand others' frustration/disappointment of how some clones were handled this time around. It was regression rather than progression, although still not as bad as how Melee handled clones admittedly, like with Pichu and some bottom-of-the-barrel characters.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
As many of you know, each of the new characters have a certain picture with them and other Smash Bros. characters done in their art style.

If Rayman was a playable character, this would be just perfect for him.

Ubisoft now hates Nintendo, so that won't happen.

Ubisoft hates Nintendo? Why?

At least the Rayman trophy is still in the game...I think.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
The problem is... Okay, look back at Brawl; the clones it had were fairly unique semi-clones, and the only unique character it cut was Mewtwo. This game on the other hand... cut Ice Climbers, Wolf, Pokemon Trainer/Squirtle/Ivysaur, Lucas, and Snake. Six more or less unique characters right there just gone, while some of the clones added this time to "pad the roster" they didn't even try mix up some of the moves with or give some unique elements, like they did with Lucas, Wolf, or Luigi.

While I wouldn't specifically blame the clones either for people's favorites not getting in compared to the Mii's, I can understand others' frustration/disappointment of how some clones were handled this time around. It was regression rather than progression, although still not as bad as how Melee handled clones admittedly, like with Pichu and some bottom-of-the-barrel characters.

I have some hope for Ice Climbers though. Their exclusion from the 3DS version was apparently linked to a problem with the tech not being able to handle it. Maybe in the Wii U version they'll make a return. Hopefully.