Re: Re: Spiderman vs wolverine debunked
Originally posted by SamZEDAnything in the human body that CAN regenerate, will heal superhumanly due to his HF. But, some stuff does not heal. Including spinal columns. And, that wouldn't be the same as a nerve in an arm being severed.
There were made several attempts to rip Logan apart and to cut his head off. Even by people stronger than Spidey. The adamantium skeleton makes it impossible. Dont know how that works exactly, there was no official statement to my knowledge. But comics support it. At the same time Logan on 2 different occasions admitted that his neck can be broken. 😐 But feats > statement.As for webs, Logan can cut though it. TTT, Spider-man never tried to web him up with more than few threads. A whole cartridge should be enough to immobilize Logan at least for some time but in that case getting to his head would be impossible.
Hope that helped.
If the spinal column is severed, none of "the good stuff" works anymore, including anything that keeps the HF going. No more communication between the brain and the body.
Maybe that's why he told Spidey that he could have killed him when he had Wolvie by the neck. Also, the nerves can be severed without actually breaking any bones.
Re: Re: Re: Spiderman vs wolverine debunked
Originally posted by Horrificus
Anything in the human body that CAN regenerate, will heal superhumanly due to his HF. But, some stuff does not heal. Including spinal columns. And, that wouldn't be the same as a nerve in an arm being severed.If the spinal column is severed, none of "the good stuff" works anymore, including anything that keeps the HF going. No more communication between the brain and the body.
Maybe that's why he told Spidey that he could have killed him when he had Wolvie by the neck. Also, the nerves can be severed without actually breaking any bones.
I like the hypocracy here, the one scan is from a book that everyone directly calls BS as soon as someone wants to use it against Wolverine, yet if a feat from that book is required to support Wolverine apparently it's nothing wrong with mentioning stuff from said book. Same goes for "Wayverine" btw, trying to dismiss entire runs of Wolverine (unless there are feats taht seem to be useful) simply because the character isn't portrayed the way someone wants him to be is a pretty shitty idea in the first place.
Also the last one screams PIS his arms ware webbed to his body it makes 0 sense of his getting out of that and completely bursting that shit off of him and I also like how (of course) only these 2 panels are used because Spider-man is actually punching away Wolverine without being afraid of him nor hurting his hand and he is also not getting touched by Wolverine except loosing some beard hairs which he usually doesn't have anyways. Also lol at the 3rd scan and saying he went out of the webbing anytime he wanted to he was struggeling and needed 5 panels to get out a simple extra shot from his webbing should have done the job quite well.
And if you want I can start with usual web ups of Spider-man and the amount of webbing he regular uses (and actually you already know that it's much more than it is used there, even shitty ass grandma robbers usually get webbed up in big fat cocoons) if you really want to use these showings as proof get ready to get spammed with the dozens of time Wolverine was 1 or "few shotted" and how that doesn't make any sense either but it happens and recently it actually happens a lot, even the typical "but the majority of times" (that you again just used to low ball Spider-mans times to web people up with a proper amount of webbing) argument doesn't fly anymore but of course to disproof this argument someone would need to fanatically collect his low showings which no normal person would do.
While I would agree that certain charcters work different on forums it's surely not only Wolverine and all of his illogical low showings get thrown away while everything he does is 100% legit that's some hypocritical shit right there.
EDIT: Also lol at Wolverine killing 200 super villains because most of Spider-mans villains would lack the amount of showings anyways and Wolverine's villain roster consists of like 6-8 established powerful villains the rest is mere fodder quality or had context stuff like this chick that was wearing a morningstar in her hair (yeah crazy powerful) or when he "defeated" the guy with the drums from Apocs horsemen.
Originally posted by jinzin
Thing is, I'm talking about their overall relationship with one another, not just in that book, I wasn't referencing that book specifically. Spiderman is afraid of Wolverine approximately half of the time. Yeah sometimes he gets pissed off at Wolverine but when he's not pissed with Wolverine he's afraid of him. It's part of their dynamic... and if you don't see the difference between comparing how Spiderman might feel about his typical Saturday morning villain who might have some nice powers, and talk a good game, and a psycho who Spiderman has witnessed killing dozens of men, who has a death count literally in the tens of thousands if not more, and who goes rounds and takes down opposition like the Hulk, stalemates his hero Captain America, and has a better track record against those bad guys than he does himself... Well.... I'm not sure what to tell you. Fact is, Wolverine's killed more people than most of Spiderman's rogues gallery combined and as dangerous as Spiderman has made Lizard out to be in the past, Wolverine effortlessly made quick work of him. How many of Spiderman's baddy's have feats comparible to things like Wolverine killing or incapacitating over 200 super villains? They don't.What I would assume makes him maybe a bit more threatening is the simple fact that he's a good guy... or at least he's supposed to be. Having someone you know is an enemy is a lot easier to deal with than someone who's supposed to be your friend/ally but might stab you at any minute.
As for the webbing, sometimes he uses mass amounts, most times he's doesn't. And the majority of the times he fails to are in fights.
The MK examples shows Spiderman continuing to try to web Wolverine as Wolv's was breaking free, their limited series example shows Spiderman using a mass amount of webbing and it being completely shredded through near instantly.
I guess some people are comfortable using off hand examples that don't have anything to do with the direct comparisons, but the direct comparisons that exist tell a pretty clear tale imo.
It's not that I dont see the difference between some lame supervillain and Wolverine. My point - there should BE NO difference to Spider-man. NOT in that particular situation. First of all, when they fought Spider-man didn't know that Logan beat Cap, killed gazillion people etc (and tbh that last part wasn't much of a problem when he fought Carnage) And even if he did know all that it still wouldnt matter. Not when someone's in danger. Look..
I take back what I said, I was wrong. I still say its one of the worst PIS/CIS examples in Spider-man's history but not because he was affraid to die. Now that I think about it, its in his character to fear death.
Its CIS/PIS because that fear caused him to be in shock, he couldnt talk and was unable to fight back even though an innocent life was in danger. Now THAT beats BP's cosmic armbar any day and goes against everything Spider-man.
The same guy who fights braineating aliens all the time.
The same guy who while stranded in time had to relive every single supervillain battle he's ever had and didnt give up.
The same guy who made jokes while attacking Galactus.
The same guy who attacked a 50-foot Thanos while they both were in Death's realm. He didnt give a crap there's no hope of winning, or that he'll die. Why? Because an innocent girl was in danger.
Now Jin, look me in the avatar and tell me all the impressive/scary things you mentioned about Logan would mean jack to Pete when he's trying to save someone. I know for a fact that you read Spider-man so I have no idea where this is coming from.
I dont even need to look for examples. This book came out 2 days ago. Now this is a well-written Spider-man.
Pete is tired/beat/poisont. The guy he's fighting JUST sh!tstomped the Red Hulk in less than 3 panels, sliced him open and left him for death right infront of Pete.
And SM here is fighting for some no name mole people. Is about to get executed. Is he scared? Probably. Is he paralized in shock, unable to speak and givving up? Hell no.
Now tell me you agree with me. 😛
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Direct comparisons are better than off hand examples. Agreed. Except for the times when the attack shown in the offhand example is different from the one shown in the direct comparison. For example most of Spider-man/Human Torch fights.
In 99% of their encounters Spider-man easilly dodges all of Johnny's fire blasts. On the other hand, there are examples of Johnny going nova. And if I ever try to use Pete's and Johnny's encounters as a proof that Spider-man can dodge Human Torch's omnidirectional nova blast feel free to punch me in the face. Same here.
To say that the amount of webbing Spider-man used against Wolverine is the same amount his web shooters can produce when he's not holding anything back is a pretty big stretch. In MK he really was webbing Logan up for some time. From the looks of it a couple seconds. And yet there were only few threads. And we know for a fact that when Pete goes all out few seconds is enough for his shooters to create a web ball 20 or 30 feet in diameter. And the only thing stopping him from trying that with Scarecrow, Logan, Black Cat, Deadpool and others is plot.
Originally posted by SamZED
If you're talking overall dynamics im ok with it. But its not really fear. More of a comedy act. "ZOMG he's the last person I wanna mess with" thing. The same way Deadpool was affraid of Sabertooth.It's not that I dont see the difference between some lame supervillain and Wolverine. My point - there should BE NO difference to Spider-man. NOT in that particular situation. First of all, when they fought Spider-man didn't know that Logan beat Cap, killed gazillion people etc (and tbh that last part wasn't much of a problem when he fought Carnage) And even if he did know all that it still wouldnt matter. Not when someone's in danger. Look..
I take back what I said, I was wrong. I still say its one of the worst PIS/CIS examples in Spider-man's history but not because he was affraid to die. Now that I think about it, its in his character to fear death.
Its CIS/PIS because that fear caused him to be in shock, he couldnt talk and was unable to fight back even though an innocent life was in danger. Now THAT beats BP's cosmic armbar any day and goes against everything Spider-man.The same guy who fights braineating aliens all the time.
The same guy who while stranded in time had to relive every single supervillain battle he's ever had and didnt give up.
The same guy who made jokes while attacking Galactus.
The same guy who attacked a 50-foot Thanos while they both were in Death's realm. He didnt give a crap there's no hope of winning, or that he'll die. Why? Because an innocent girl was in danger.Now Jin, look me in the avatar and tell me all the impressive/scary things you mentioned about Logan would mean jack to Pete when he's trying to save someone. I know for a fact that you read Spider-man so I have no idea where this is coming from.
I dont even need to look for examples. This book came out 2 days ago. Now this is a well-written Spider-man.
Pete is tired/beat/poisont. The guy he's fighting JUST sh!tstomped the Red Hulk in less than 3 panels, sliced him open and left him for death right infront of Pete.And SM here is fighting for some no name mole people. Is about to get executed. Is he scared? Probably. Is he paralized in shock, unable to speak and givving up? Hell no.
Now tell me you agree with me. 😛
_____________________________________________Direct comparisons are better than off hand examples. Agreed. Except for the times when the attack shown in the offhand example is different from the one shown in the direct comparison. For example most of Spider-man/Human Torch fights.
In 99% of their encounters Spider-man easilly dodges all of Johnny's fire blasts. On the other hand, there are examples of Johnny going nova. And if I ever try to use Pete's and Johnny's encounters as a proof that Spider-man can dodge Human Torch's omnidirectional nova blast feel free to punch me in the face. Same here.
To say that the amount of webbing Spider-man used against Wolverine is the same amount his web shooters can produce when he's not holding anything back is a pretty big stretch. In MK he really was webbing Logan up for some time. From the looks of it a couple seconds. And yet there were only few threads. And we know for a fact that when Pete goes all out few seconds is enough for his shooters to create a web ball 20 or 30 feet in diameter. And the only thing stopping him from trying that with Scarecrow, Logan, Black Cat, Deadpool and others is plot.
Uncertainty my friend. A villain who will kill for certain, is less frightening than a hero that might. At least if you know you are going to die you can resign yourself to your fate...
Spider-man still webs up Wolverine for at least 9/10 though.
