Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I think it's pretty obvious: theism is more prevalent because it's leftover from our more primitive ancestors reflecting fears and concerns about the afterlife. But now that science is explaining more and more I think there is less and less reason for such superstitions.
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It's not the act of demonstrating how it originates that makes it false (evolutionary origins), it's the lack of evidence for it that makes it likely to be false. He is setting up a straw man.
I've been reading some of Dawkins' The God Delusion and one theory of how our minds became gullible toward belief in superstitious ideas is that as children we had to trust adults in the natural world and children don't really know the difference between good ideas and bad ideas, such as not going near the water's edge for fear of crocodiles (good idea) vs. "you must sacrifice a goat at the time of the full moon otherwise the rains will fail is at best a waste of time and goats" (bad idea).
For myself I can speak for personal experiences lending what appears to be evidence for a being capable of hearing me and controlling a trillion universes easily. Since it is an experience that I've had repeatedly,asking for blessings, I'd literally be lying to say something that didn't include personal faith in God enough to ask for specific things in the same way I'd ask a physical being I could see. I can't help but to be appreciative when I receive what I've asked for repeatedly( understandably) I become hard pressed to betray the giver of these perceived blessing by denying that I asked them as if they existed. The longer people live the more opportunity they have to have personal experiences that they attribute to something supernatural.
I kind of like my original answer to this question:
Originally posted by Digi
Every time with a re-roll, no. Most times, yes.It relates to evolution. Minds focused on hunting and gathering instead of existential crises were more likely to survive. But as we developed cognitive awareness, our minds turned to our origins, the origins and explanations for natural phenomena and the like. Those who reconciled them with a deity (or deities in the plural early on) could get back to the business of surviving. The earliest "scientists" were probably killed off because their curiosity distracted them too much.
There's also strong sociological and biological evidence that taking part in shared activities (early religious rituals and rites) increases cooperativeness. So being a part of a coherent community and doing similar things helped ensure survival as well. Religion provided the outlet for those advantages.
Basically, belief is programmed into us because it helped us survive...and we're not so far removed from that time as a species that natural selection has been able to do anything about it.
...that's it in a nutshell. There's other factors but those are major ones.
...
Originally posted by The MISTER
For myself I can speak for personal experiences lending what appears to be evidence for a being capable of hearing me and controlling a trillion universes easily. Since it is an experience that I've had repeatedly,asking for blessings, I'd literally be lying to say something that didn't include personal faith in God enough to ask for specific things in the same way I'd ask a physical being I could see. I can't help but to be appreciative when I receive what I've asked for repeatedly( understandably) I become hard pressed to betray the giver of these perceived blessing by denying that I asked them as if they existed. The longer people live the more opportunity they have to have personal experiences that they attribute to something supernatural.
By the same coin, the longer people live, the more opportunity they have to have personal experiences where they understand the physical causes underlying those experiences, which don't require a supernatural explanation. You could live for a thousand years and see a million miracles given to you by God. And another person could live that same life and see a million outcomes that require no special explanation outside the deterministic, material universe they find themselves in.
Also, what have you asked for that you think the outcome of those requests is evidence for a being that can control - and I quote - "a trillion universes easily"?? Those must have been some insane prayer requests.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
It's not the act of demonstrating how it originates that makes it false (evolutionary origins), it's the lack of evidence for it that makes it likely to be false. He is setting up a straw man.I've been reading some of Dawkins' The God Delusion and one theory of how our minds became gullible toward belief in superstitious ideas is that as children we had to trust adults in the natural world and children don't really know the difference between good ideas and bad ideas, such as not going near the water's edge for fear of crocodiles (good idea) vs. "you must sacrifice a goat at the time of the full moon otherwise the rains will fail is at best a waste of time and goats" (bad idea).
This is a good point. I saw this too, either in The God Delusion or elsewhere, and it relates somewhat to my earlier evolutionary point. Being inherently trusting sets us up for survival success as children in ways that skepticism wouldn't.
Your example of good/bad ideas relates to all this as well in other ways. We experience false positives in beliefs all the time (i.e. "that goat sacrifice made it rain!"😉 because early in our species' development, that was advantageous over false negatives (i.e. "that rustling in the bush over there is probably nothing, and certainly not a tiger that can kill me"😉. Or in modern times, "that cupcake looks like Jesus!" or "Everyone Aunt Rita prays for gets a job. She started praying for me, and just a couple months later I got one. God is good!"
I use that last example deliberately. Had a great-aunt who'd pray for all kinds of family members to get jobs when they were out of work - and for a brief period I was the recipient of her prayers. Wonderful woman, unfortunately deceased now. And she truly believed it was working. I tend to think it was my practice of applying for an average of one job a day minimum (over a three-month period I was well into triple digits, covering multiple cities I would have moved to), research into interview skills and companies' hiring practices, and tweaking my application subtly to better match each and every job I applied to, rather than simply spamming the same one to all jobs. There's a phrase that's hilarious to me that I hear repeated by Christians in my life: "God helps those who help themselves." It's at odds with the entire idea of prayer and faith, but no one really thinks too hard about it. But they instinctively realize that it's their own effort that will get them the desired outcome. For which they might then thank God for the willpower or strength to have done it (again darkly amusing to me). Or if it doesn't work out, they say God's testing them or has other plans for them. It's self-fulfilling. God's just a placeholder to thank for whatever happens, in whatever way it happens.
But who knows...maybe it was Aunt Rita's prayers after all.
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The answer is because your parents tend to raise you in their religion, and then you follow suit, and your children follow suit, and so on and so on. People usually do not break away.
I was baptized at a young age, before I could talk or think for myself. Wasn't given a choice. Shit like that? Is why we have more theists IMO. There was also a time in the world where if you weren't a theist you'd be killed. Those traditions were kept up even after that threat disappeared.
Originally posted by Digi
Every time with a re-roll, no. Most times, yes.It relates to evolution. Minds focused on hunting and gathering instead of existential crises were more likely to survive. But as we developed cognitive awareness, our minds turned to our origins, the origins and explanations for natural phenomena and the like. Those who reconciled them with a deity (or deities in the plural early on) could get back to the business of surviving. The earliest "scientists" were probably killed off because their curiosity distracted them too much.
There's also strong sociological and biological evidence that taking part in shared activities (early religious rituals and rites) increases cooperativeness. So being a part of a coherent community and doing similar things helped ensure survival as well. Religion provided the outlet for those advantages.
Basically, belief is programmed into us because it helped us survive...and we're not so far removed from that time as a species that natural selection has been able to do anything about it.
...that's it in a nutshell. There's other factors but those are major ones.
That all makes a lot of sense.
Originally posted by Digi
Also, what have you asked for that you think the outcome of those requests is evidence for a being that can control - and I quote - "a trillion universes easily"?? Those must have been some insane prayer requests.
I second this question.
Originally posted by Digi
There's a phrase that's hilarious to me that I hear repeated by Christians in my life: "God helps those who help themselves." It's at odds with the entire idea of prayer and faith, but no one really thinks too hard about it. But they instinctively realize that it's their own effort that will get them the desired outcome. For which they might then thank God for the willpower or strength to have done it (again darkly amusing to me). Or if it doesn't work out, they say God's testing them or has other plans for them. It's self-fulfilling. God's just a placeholder to thank for whatever happens, in whatever way it happens.
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Originally posted by Surtur
YouTube video
Not the first time you've posted it. It never gets old. 👆
Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]Yeah because people with OUT Religion never go around trying to enforce THEIR Morality on others....or their Lack of Morality as is the case sometimes. [/B]
Oh, there's a lot of those idiots as well, I'm not denying it. With religion, it's a more severe case however.
Some religious people are way too dogmatic, some atheists are way too nihilistic, relativist, or want to take a sledgehammer to important institutions and values in society. Both groups have their own unique brand of regressive IMO.
They also both have their own unique brand of quality people, such as those that are motivated by their religion to commit themselves to certain values and emotional states worth pursuing, and those atheists that bring a healthy secular skepticism to the table.
I'm fairly happy with the ideological pluralism in this regard, since I think Christianity and secularism have both had positive impacts on the west, but there are regressive Christians and regressive atheists that are minimized you the existence of the other group.
There are some though that would make blanket statements about the superiority of atheists to Christians or Christians to atheists, and I don't find either one of those viewpoints particularly intelligent.