Before Watchmen!

Originally posted by -Pr-

Don't lie. 😬

Now tell me none of this counts pretty much and you officially pissed me off.

Originally posted by -Pr-

This is the first real reboot since 1985. That's twenty-seven years, and it's been an overwhelming success, and several DC mainstays are better for it.

So you don't count Zero Hour in 1994 or Infinite Crisis in 2006? Maybe they weren't as across the board, but it was DC again trying to work out their continuity and alter character history.

Originally posted by roughrider
So you don't count Zero Hour in 1994 or Infinite Crisis in 2006? Maybe they weren't as across the board, but it was DC again trying to work out their continuity and alter character history.

They altered histories on a very minor level for the most part, so no, I wouldn't consider them reboots any more than say, tweaking Superman's history or adding Vulcan to X-Men lore. The major characters were left alone, and even in this new reboot, there are about a dozen characters who have already been confirmed as being pretty much unchanged.

It's not a real reboot unless D-listers like Ted Kord get rebooted out of existing.

Originally posted by -Pr-
They altered histories on a very minor level for the most part, so no, I wouldn't consider them reboots any more than say, tweaking Superman's history or adding Vulcan to X-Men lore. The major characters were left alone, and even in this new reboot, there are about a dozen characters who have already been confirmed as being pretty much unchanged.

Well, be clear, Flashpoint was a wholesale reboot. They rearranged histories and details of basically everyone, whether they're admitting it or not. The very fact that they're surrounded by a different universe means that much has changed with them. And anything between the crises has been stripped from most characters explicitly.

I agree with you on the earlier stuff though. Even the middle crisis was tame in terms of retcons and changes. Change is often needed, so it wasn't a horrible move. I wonder if/when Marvel will follow suit because they see DC's sales.

Originally posted by Digi
I wonder if/when Marvel will follow suit because they see DC's sales.

I think Marvel's history is far less flexible than DC's. They have what-ifs and different realities to play with outside of 616, too (Ultimate, AoA, Zombies, etc) so I don't think Marvel would do a massive across the line reboot - which is a good thing.

The reboot worked with DC because DC has a history of events having cataclysmic side effects which ripple across the multiverse, changing history as editorial deems necessary. Marvel has had no reason to ever do such a wide scale thing and doing it to boost sales would just be a gimmick. It could happen, sure, but it wouldn't make sense nor would it benefit Marvel beneficially.

I can't see Marvel rebooting anytime soon, especially since every indication is that DC's sales are leveling off and if things stay continue on pace we will be back to the status quo by the end of the year.

I think they should though. Marvel has never needed too since they has always been better at managing continuity across their line, but we are going on 70 some odd years of in continuity stories and as well as Marvel has been able to manage, things are gradually getting more convoluted and complicated as time goes on. I think a roll back would be beneficial especially with so many characters having fix date origins.

Rumor has it that they will be rebooting, but it wouldn't make sense. They already started with #1's across the line. X-Men needs some major rebooting.

Marvel is pretty easy to jump into, as compared to DC prior to the reboot (though I personally had no problems, really). The X-Men are really the only aspect of the Marvel U that might need tweaking, but Spider-Man's canon is pretty straight forward, One More Day/Brand New Day included. Avengers canon is also pretty streamlined, and considering how the Avengers have been pushed as the cornerstone of the Marvel U for years and how much bigger they're getting, I can't see Marvel undoing all that history in an attempt to attract more fans.

Most of DC's continuity is not that hard to follow. It may take a little work, but people make too much of a big deal out of it. Prior to 2005, I hardly read anything DC. I didn't even read that much books, but for me it wasn't hard to follow at all. It's not Shakespeare!

Well, you had already been a Marvel reader prior to that, correct? It's easy enough jumping into a brand or company of comics if you already have experience in another. Choosing what to read, figuring out your preferred style of art and writing, piecing together canonical events, etc. I had already worked out most of what made Marvel Comics tick by the time I started reading DC. And I didn't have any issues with it, but I still had to figure out what Post and Pre-Crisis meant, the impact Zero Hour had, etc, etc.

The books themselves aren't hard to get into or follow, but canonical events themselves are another story.

Yeah, true. Marvel and Image. To the Extreme! 😄

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Most of DC's continuity is not that hard to follow. It may take a little work, but people make too much of a big deal out of it. Prior to 2005, I hardly read anything DC. I didn't even read that much books, but for me it wasn't hard to follow at all. It's not Shakespeare!

You should have seen what a big deal Crisis On Infinite Earths was in 1985 - 50 years of DC history was impossibly convoluted and had to be wiped clean. That was a true new beginning then.

Impossible isn't the word I would use. I read a bunch of those stories too and it's not that hard to get into. At least for me. COIE was probably the best big event I have read.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Impossible isn't the word I would use. I read a bunch of those stories too and it's not that hard to get into. At least for me. COIE was probably the best big event I have read.

I think you should download some PC and Silver Age Superman comics (Superman, Action, Superman's GF Lois Lane, Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen) and let us know how well you fallow whats going on, and if there is a sense of continuity from one issue to the next let alone across the Superman line. Silver Age virtually had no continuity, shit changed on a whim from issue to issue. 😎

I can follow just fine. 😎

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I can't see Marvel rebooting anytime soon, especially since every indication is that DC's sales are leveling off and if things stay continue on pace we will be back to the status quo by the end of the year.

I think they should though. Marvel has never needed too since they has always been better at managing continuity across their line, but we are going on 70 some odd years of in continuity stories and as well as Marvel has been able to manage, things are gradually getting more convoluted and complicated as time goes on. I think a roll back would be beneficial especially with so many characters having fix date origins.

jms addresses before watchmen/babylon 5 comparisons.

comicbookresources.com/?page=article&d=36766

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Did you enjoy Sandman more?