Sage Naruto and MS Sasuke vs Konoha 11

Originally posted by NemeBro
... You're arguing that he can't use a kunai?

... You're arguing that he'll employ a kunai?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why? Neji's chakra is finite, as are his physical abilites, and IIRC he has never rotated for long, why are you assuming it is unbreakable?

1. Show me where I claimed Neji's chakra is infinite.

2. Show me where I claimed Neji's physical abilities are infinite.

3. Show me where I claimed Neji can rotate for long periods of time.

4. Show me where I claimed Neji's shield is unbreakable.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why assume that something that relies on finite attributes to create is infinitely durable?

Show me where I claimed that Neji's shield is infinitely durable.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's a No-Limits Fallacy.

Ah, now we're getting to the good stuff. The no-limits fallacy is ALMOST being committed by you, actually.

You're implying that Naruto's SM strength is enough to break Neji's shield. One what grounds? There's no limit to Naruto's strength against a finite shield, eh?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Naruto in Sage Mode is much faster than either.

Prove it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hell, you yourself said that Naruto's blitzing of Asura Path Pain was the greatest demonstration of speed in the manga (At that point).

It's more joking fanboyism on my part than a serious contemplating and calculation of speed feats. The greatest speed feat, by my admission, was the final showdown between Naruto and Deva Path because it is literally the only quantifiable speed feat in Naruto based on an IN manga stopwatch (naruto counted down from 5 seconds). Something that rarely happens in comics or manga (instead, we get silly claims by character inside of the manga).

I did another speed feat calc based on Lee's foot falling from his limp body: it was the one that had Guy coming in and dispelling Gaara's sand from dealing the killing blow against Lee. I measured it based on his Lee's pre-time skip height as a function of pixels to stated height ratio. Lee's foot was shown falling down, while Lee was on his side. The next image showed Guy stopping the sand. So we can say, at a minimum, what Guy's speed was based on the size of the room and the time it would take, under g, to cause Lee's foot to fall to the ground and for Guy to bridge the gap between Gaara and Lee during that time.

Some people on the internet were claiming that the speed of Guy in that situation was hypersonic. That would make it the single greatest speed feat in Naruto...

However, I proved that it does not need to be ... sonic? Can't remember. But that might be the only other "objective" speed I could find in Naruto.

Additionally, and more on topic, I already stated that Naruto can take out the entire team, minus Lee and Neji, in 2-3 seconds.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I honestly had no idea if you were joking or not, that is why it bothered me. Most people I can tell when they are joking, I can't really do that when you do it. 😐

I am unsure how a image posted that implies you need to apply ointment to your aching anus because I just raped your anus (or hurt it in some way), can be taken as anything but a joke.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not seeing anything suggesting he didn't get off a full rotation. Though if he wasn't able to get one off then his speed with it is pretty shit considering Naruto was running at him in full view and had time to shout out a few sentences.

In the cases of unclear panels we must turn to the anime:

YouTube video

I'm not seeing it being half-powered or anything. No body mentions it anyway.

I was not talking about the manga. There are multiple differences between the manga and anime fight between Neji and Naruto.

I'm talking about this:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v12/c104/10.html

Neji does not appear to be in full rotation, yet. He even states, "oh no" and starts to say the move with wide "i'm about to get raped" eyes.

Edit - Just watched the vid. It's even worse in the anime, actually. It doesn't look like he gets any rotation (the tech, not just spinning) in at all. He turns around maybe once.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I was not talking about the manga. There are multiple differences between the manga and anime fight between Neji and Naruto.

I'm talking about this:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v12/c104/10.html

So you're not talking about the manga, you're talking about the..... manga? Did you mean anime? Because thats what I meant. I saw nothing to indicate he didn't manage a full rotation in the manga so I posted the anime to clarify.

Neji does not appear to be in full rotation, yet. He even states, "oh no" and starts to say the move with wide "i'm about to get raped" eyes.

Yeah, I'm still not seeing it. Imo this proves that Neji's 'Ultimate Defence' isn't so much.

Originally posted by Nephthys

So you're not talking about the manga, you're talking about the..... manga? Did you mean anime? Because thats what I meant. I saw nothing to indicate he didn't manage a full rotation in the manga so I posted the anime to clarify.

That's obviously a mistake and clearly the context of my post shows exactly what I meant. yawn

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I'm still not seeing it. Imo this proves that Neji's 'Ultimate Defence' isn't so much.

I'm seeing it. Consider that every other still shot that shows Neji's shield up shows it in full rotation and that one doesn't. Consider that the anime also makes my case even more.

If after considering this information, you still conclude that Neji was in full rotation going all out with his Heavenly Rotation tech, then we will never agree. I don't need to convince you, however.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm seeing it. Consider that every other still shot that shows Neji's shield up shows it in full rotation and that one doesn't. Consider that the anime also makes my case even more.

If after considering this information, you still conclude that Neji was in full rotation going all out with his Heavenly Rotation tech, then we will never agree. I don't need to convince you, however.

If I'm understanding you correctly you're saying that because we can actually see Neji's body instead of just a blur that he was what, not rotating? Because he isn't drawn as spinning that he's not? It doesn't prove anything. We know that he did manage to spin and that he did create his rotation shield, but you're suggesting that because we can see him that he wasn't going very fast or that he couldn't, um, spin enough? What makes you think that he needs to 'charge up' his spin in order to get to full power? Earlier you said that he only seemed to spin once. How many spins does it take to create a 'full-power' rotation? I'm not seeing any evidence here beyond your own speculation.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If I'm understanding you correctly you're saying that because we can actually see Neji's body instead of just a blur that he was what, not rotating? Because he isn't drawn as spinning that he's not? It doesn't prove anything. We[b] know that he did manage to spin and that he did create his rotation shield, but you're suggesting that because we can see him that he wasn't going very fast or that he couldn't, um, spin enough? What makes you think that he needs to 'charge up' his spin in order to get to full power? Earlier you said that he only seemed to spin once. How many spins does it take to create a 'full-power' rotation? I'm not seeing any evidence here beyond your own speculation. [/B]

I think my point is very clear, this time.

Ever single other time Neji uses that tech, it is the spheroid looking thing. That time? No. Every single other example in the manga says you're wrong.

What makes me think that?: the images in the manga that show that. But there's also the video you posted which further supports my point.

But just a few pages back, you can clearly see what a complete version looks like:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v12/c104/5.html

Look at the 3rd to last panel: Neji is slowing down to catch the shuriken and his "shield" looks like the same form as it was when Naruto clashes. Clearly, Neji didn't have time to get the tech fully up and running before Naruto clashed with him.

So it is not as though I'm just randomly selecting which panels I use and which I don't.

Let me make it clear that you cannot "convince" me. I know it is pretty much impossible to change your mind once you've made it up and I'm not interested in doing that.