Punisher vs Gotham

Originally posted by Juntai
Not sure why breaking into the Baxter building is still such a respectable feat when we've seen Wolverine, Spiderman, Frank and a number of other heros and villains do it without seemingly terribly much difficulty. Certainly nothing the guy he's attempting to replace in Gotham in this thread wouldn't be able to accomplish with ease.

Don't know if Frank broke into the Baxter building but it was pretty obvious that Wolverine had alot of help, maybe you would like to explain the context of what the other heroes did (might not be a big deal). By the way Wolverine is a top notch assassin.

Frank has also esacped from Castle Doom while under survillance.

Originally posted by Deadline
Don't know if Frank broke into the Baxter building but it was pretty obvious that Wolverine had alot of help

No it wasent at all. There was in fact no indication at all that he used help to break into the baxter building. He had help escaping however.

Originally posted by Deadline
, maybe you would like to explain the context of what the other heroes did (might not be a big deal). By the way Wolverine is a top notch assassin.

Originally posted by Juntai
Not sure why breaking into the Baxter building is still such a respectable feat when we've seen Wolverine, Spiderman, Frank and a number of other heros and villains do it without seemingly terribly much difficulty.

um Wolverine is one of the stealthiest individuals on marvel earth. So i not sure how using him helps your case at all.

Spiderman never broke into Baxter building unnoticed before.

We gunna need some evidence to back your claims.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
No it wasent at all. There was in fact no indication at all that he used help to break into the baxter building. He had help escaping however.

Yea but the thing is Wolverine had already been upgraded and was funded by The Hand and Hydra, it was pretty obvious that he would have needed some tech.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
um Wolverine is one of the stealthiest individuals on marvel earth. So i not sure how using him helps your case at all.

Spiderman never broke into Baxter building unnoticed before.

We gunna need some evidence to back your claims.

I think Frank could handle almost all of it. Villains like Hush and The Joker would eventually kill him.

Meh well I can always go back to the fact that Doom tried to kill him and failed, was hunting him down then Frank lured Doom out. *shrug*

Originally posted by SamZED
He's right about Spider-man. Pete even did it on few various occasions. He's also sneaked passed Doom's security on another occasion. He's pretty stealthy. Spider sense helps a lot. Cant give the issue numbers right away but if you want I can look into it.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yea but the thing is Wolverine had already been upgraded and was funded by The Hand and Hydra, it was pretty obvious that he would have needed some tech.

Actaully there was no indication at all that he used tech to break in.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Wolverine was not upgraded. Only tech he was seen having is a teleporter. Which he did not use to break in. In fact when he used it, it triggered the alarm system.

Actaully there was no indication at all that he used tech to break in.

I don't know mate unless he can phase through walls it could be argued that he used the tech I think I remember him using the invisibility device as well. When I say upgraded I mean he was given tech.

Sorry mate I just checked it Wolverine #22 Gorgon specifically stated that they had given Wolverine upgrades and Wolverine stated his accessories helped him to rework the alarm system. It's obvious he was given tech to help him break in.

Thanks Dum Dum and SamZED. 🙂

And I'm not meaning to discredit it entirely, it's still a feat.. but the more people seem to do it, the less amazing and difficult it seems.

Think of Superman stopping Doomsday, if Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and Aquaman all did it after him, Doomsday would cease to be as amazing as he is. Same applies here.

But the key part of the statement was the final line of my post- that it's nothing Batman couldn't do with an even more casual ease, so I don't see how it helps the case much.

Originally posted by Deadline
I don't know mate unless he can phase through walls it could be argued that he used the tech

Based on what? there literally zero evidence that he used tech to break in. So your arguement is that he magically used phasing device he was not shown to have?

Originally posted by Deadline
I think I remember him using the invisibility device as well. When I say upgraded I mean he was given tech.

he did use intangibility device but that was during his agent of shield run and was given to him by shield.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Based on what? there literally zero evidence that he used tech to break in. So your arguement is that he magically used phasing device he was not shown to have?

You are mistaken. He never used an invisibility device.

he did use intangibility device but that was during his agent of shield run and was given to him by shield.

read my edit. Hell Gorgon even stated that they had downloaded blueprints into his brain.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thanks Dum Dum and SamZED. 🙂

And I'm not meaning to discredit it entirely, it's still a feat.. but the more people seem to do it, the less amazing and difficult it seems.

Think of Superman stopping Doomsday, if Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and Aquaman all did it after him, Doomsday would cease to be as amazing as he is. Same applies here.

But the key part of the statement was the final line of my post- that it's nothing Batman couldn't do with an even more casual ease, so I don't see how it helps the case much.

I suspect there are circumstances to these incidents.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thanks Dum Dum and SamZED. 🙂

And I'm not meaning to discredit it entirely, it's still a feat.. but the more people seem to do it, the less amazing and difficult it seems.

EDIT: Sorry I have missed the rest of your post my bad lol

Civil war issue 6 I believe. He was doing it to get info on the superprison for the anti reg side. Strode in and out like a boss IIRC. Will dig up scans.

The more I think about it, the more I honestly think Frank would do a pretty good job.

The man's definitely not stupid and wouldn't arrive in Gotham and immediately blow people up. Well, maybe a few people. ermm

Anyway, he'd likely do a lot of leg work, investigating the various crime families and super criminals/Arkham inmates, getting a sense of how they work and act. It wouldn't be past Frank to get wormed inside a criminal organization acting like a hitman of sorts before ultimately turning on his would-be employer and sending them straight to hell. He'd also have various informants, both criminals and cops alike. In a way, Frank might elicit more fear than Batman himself can to a few people; most of Batman's enduring foes, while scared of him, know that he has rules he won't break, lines he won't cross. As a new player in town, Frank would be an unknown, dealing death to such a degree that it would be a definite cause for concern.

Hell, the actual Batfamily would be more of a threat to Punisher than the rogues would be, imho.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The more I think about it, the more I honestly think Frank would do a pretty good job.

The man's definitely not stupid and wouldn't arrive in Gotham and immediately blow people up. Well, maybe a few people. ermm

Anyway, he'd likely do a lot of leg work, investigating the various crime families and super criminals/Arkham inmates, getting a sense of how they work and act. It wouldn't be past Frank to get wormed inside a criminal organization acting like a hitman of sorts before ultimately turning on his would-be employer and sending them straight to hell. He'd also have various informants, both criminals and cops alike. In a way, Frank might elicit more fear than Batman himself can to a few people; most of Batman's enduring foes, while scared of him, know that he has rules he won't break, lines he won't cross. As a new player in town, Frank would be an unknown, dealing death to such a degree that it would be a definite cause for concern.

Hell, the actual Batfamily would be more of a threat to Punisher than the rogues would be, imho.

Originally posted by Juntai
Remember how pissed Joker was when he thought Batman broke the rules?

Originally posted by Deadline
Meh well I can always go back to the fact that Doom tried to kill him and failed, was hunting him down then Frank lured Doom out. *shrug*

Originally posted by Juntai
After he does this to one of the families or baddies, like a Riddler or Penguin let's say[though I feel they'd be too smart], then he becomes a player in the game, and the rules change for the bad guys. Remember how pissed Joker was when he thought Batman broke the rules? They wouldn't hesitate to kill then and bring all their resources to bear against him.. I'm not sure Frank survives, though Gotham will be a much different place and it would be a wicked story.

I think one of the mastermind types would eventually figure out someone out there wants them dead and would see them removed from the picture, but by the time said plan was put into motion, I think Frank would have either A.) dealt way too much damage to the criminal infrastructure, or B.) Prepared for a long and bloody campaign against psychotics. Frank's horrendously underrated when it comes to getting to people and is often stopped due to plot. Castle nearly killing Osborn and getting frighteningly close to do it during Dark Reign was one such example. It took Sentry's presence to stop him, and even then, Castle did great for being surprised.

All things being equal and people being in character, I really do see Frank planning a long and drawn out war, likely months, if not more, in the waiting as he gets all the intel he needs. Naturally the involvement of Batman complicates this to a great deal, but assuming Batman doesn't interfere and stop Frank - which is doubtful - I really do think that Frank would have cleaned up a lot of the crime bosses/families in Gotham and likely taken out a few of the Arkham inmates, too. To that end, I think Frank's biggest problem is dealing with the Bat himself.

Greg Rucka would likely make this an epic cross over, however unlikely as it would be to happen.