Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He probably invested himself in the prequels to such an extent that he couldn't stand it when they were deconstructed.
I have a similar idea about the PT Haters: they had invested themselves so much into hating the PT before it came out that when it did come out, and was actually pretty good, it was too late to go back.
Originally posted by dadudemonGranted there's definitely people like that out there. They develop an opinion and their ego demands they stick to it forever. It's especially worse when it's preconceived.
I have a similar idea about the PT Haters: they had invested themselves so much into hating the PT before it came out that when it did come out, and was actually pretty good, it was too late to go back.
For myself, I used to... "like" is a strong word, but I used to "not mind" the PT. I've come across posts from 5 years ago where I defended the prequels, saying "they're not that bad." Exposure to more films, and (admittedly) seeing people's reviews helped me develop a better sense of discernment. I can't find much that I'd call 'good' in the prequels anymore, or even 'entertaining'.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I have a similar idea about the PT Haters: they had invested themselves so much into hating the PT before it came out that when it did come out, and was actually pretty good, it was too late to go back.
Insanely incorrect dismissive reductionist POV as usual when you talk on the subject of those who did not like the PT.
There have been many valid reasons for the profound disappointment felt by fans, many of which really gave it a chance and needed the films to be awesome..
'Pretty good' does not describe great Star Wars.
Epic, superfluous, legendary, profound etc etc does though.
This is why our expectations were positive prerelease on all 3 movies. Many of these fans, such as myself have defended aspects of PT. But they see the whole picture and cannot help but describe the whole painting, not just what the reds and greys are doing.
I remember all the reviews for Ep. III about it being dark, and "adult" and better than the other two. I was so f*cking excited. And so underwhelmed.
I've also never forgotten a review calling the romance in Ep. II "one of the best ever onscreen" and how believable it was. I'm pretty sure that reviewer was Stephanie Meyer.
Ebert also loved Magnolia and f*cking despised North, so...
I don't know what to make of Ebert's reviews anymore.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Insanely incorrect dismissive reductionist POV as usual when you talk on the subject of those who did not like the PT.
That is not the only reason (the one I provided that you quoted) of course. But it is one of the many. It was only a re-envisioning of Lord Lucian's quote.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
'Pretty good' does not describe great Star Wars.
I think it does in the scenario I provided for those individuals. The ones that would have hated the PT, no matter what, raged harder at the PT because it was actually pretty good rather than just good, okay, or bad. It was "pretty good" to them, not to me. For me, it was awesome and among the best cinema experiences of my life (all 3 films).
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Many of these fans, such as myself have defended aspects of PT.
This was a relief to read. I had almost relegated you to another hypocritical PT hater.
Originally posted by Robtard
I personally didn't know anyone that had negative views of The Phantom Menace before it came out.
I know about half a dozen. 🙂 All from the internet. 😐
Originally posted by Robtard
Every single Star Wars uber-fan I knew was overly excited and looked forward to more Star Wars. Including myself; it was like Christmas in May.
Every person, in real life, was like that (of the uber fans). And when they saw TPM, they said it was awesome, I had to see it, and it was a one of those things you HAD to see before it exited the theaters.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I know about half a dozen. 🙂 All from the internet. 😐Every person, in real life, was like that (of the uber fans). And when they saw TPM, they said it was awesome, I had to see it, and it was a one of those things you HAD to see before it exited the theaters.
Six people isn't a lot, unless you just happen to know six people IRL and the interwebs.
Except those six I assume?
Originally posted by dadudemon
Every person, in real life, was like that (of the uber fans). And when they saw TPM, they said it was awesome, I had to see it, and it was a one of those things you HAD to see before it exited the theaters.
Yep, same here. I was already very active on SW forums. And everyone was excited as far as I remember. We all knew digital effects were so much better, we had seen Jurassic Park and the trailer looked awesome.
I wanted to like it a lot, I tried defending it a lot (I liked the way the pod race was cut) but it also left me underwhelmed. And like with any movie that doesn't seem to grab me I try to analyse WHY it doesn't grab me. And looking under the surface there is so much wrong with TPM and AOTC, the characters don't work, it's a very forced sequence of events ("things happen because the script says they must"😉 and it misses a soul... there is a desire to succeed, but it misses the point on so many counts. AOTC is with ROTS even worse. ROTS at least had proper pacing and worked better as a movie, but the characters were still lousy and, worse, on many count contradictory to the OT.
But no, I don't remember a large group of fans who hated TPM before it came out... and even the disappointment grew slowly I think. I always felt we all WANTED to love it... because we loved SW so much. It's not a blind hate.
Originally posted by queeq
...And looking under the surface there is so much wrong with TPM and AOTC, the characters don't work, it's a very forced sequence of events ("things happen because the script says they must"😉 and it misses a soul... there is a desire to succeed, but it misses the point on so many counts. AOTC is with ROTS even worse. ROTS at least had proper pacing and worked better as a movie, but the characters were still lousy and, worse, on many count contradictory to the OT...
Queeg,
I had a revelation as I read your reply. You're right, the PT didn't have a "soul". It was a lot of cold characters blah blahing back and forth and the story moved in the direction each fan predicted it would go since the the PT was announced. But the "soul" the PT didn't have was a certain character named HAN SOLO. Han is what gave the OT character, life, inspiration and personality. Who is bitching all the time about crazy Princesses and Old Wizards? Who is oddly paired with a 7 foot hairy beast? Who continuously appears to save everybody's ass from the fire? Who does the audience relate to? A princess? A farm boy with Force powers? No, a regular everyday guy working to make a living in the GL universe. If there were a Han Solo type character in the PT, I think it would've turned out much better. But it takes itself too seriously and the dialogue doesn't have the same flare without the energy of a scoundrel mixed in it. We needed an "everyday guy" in the PT to relate to, and no, Jar Jar wasn't him.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Ebert also loved Magnolia and f*cking despised North, so...I don't know what to make of Ebert's reviews anymore.
Originally posted by Kickballjedi
Queeg,I had a revelation as I read your reply. You're right, the PT didn't have a "soul". It was a lot of cold characters blah blahing back and forth and the story moved in the direction each fan predicted it would go since the the PT was announced. But the "soul" the PT didn't have was a certain character named HAN SOLO. Han is what gave the OT character, life, inspiration and personality. Who is bitching all the time about crazy Princesses and Old Wizards? Who is oddly paired with a 7 foot hairy beast? Who continuously appears to save everybody's ass from the fire? Who does the audience relate to? A princess? A farm boy with Force powers? No, a regular everyday guy working to make a living in the GL universe. If there were a Han Solo type character in the PT, I think it would've turned out much better. But it takes itself too seriously and the dialogue doesn't have the same flare without the energy of a scoundrel mixed in it. We needed an "everyday guy" in the PT to relate to, and no, Jar Jar wasn't him.
To me it's not just Han Solo. The OT has a very simple set up, character wise:
1. Simple everyday farmboy - an everyman, you can relate to that
2. A beautiful princess locked up (in a tower?)
3. A pirate, a bit naughty, the way we like to be
4. An older man, a grandfather type
5. A bad guy in a big bad suit.
Basic fairytale characters that we already knew from numerous childhood stories, but now in a completely new look, world etc.
Plus it had a fairly indepth story about a father and a son. And basically that's it. PT wanted to score on too many counts: politics, profound characters with many layers, spectacular action scenes. It wanted too much and it turned out as too less.
But I agree with you: it takes itself waaaaay to seriously. The PT suffers from pretentiousness.