Originally posted by truejedi
FOTJ just came to closure. It provides insight into what tipped the balance of the force. It mentions nothing about Plageious or Sidious.
There is a passage in Apocalypse from an omniscient or otherwise extremely well educated source indicating that the shifting of the Force's balance in the PT was the product of someone other than Plagueis and/or Sidious?
Originally posted by truejedi
Yoda/Luke/Killiks. So I mean... Pretty good sources.Not omniscient, I'll give you that. But as reliable as Sidious, who admittedly didn't truly understand the process himself. Especially together? Yeah, probably.
You're being very vague. I haven't found a single reference to this phenomenon that remotely contradicts Plagueis's ritual beyond Thuruht's distorted recollections and, per Denning, "The Killiks really don’t remember anything quite accurately. It’s all filtered through the minds of people who’ve become Joiners."
Would you mind being a little more specific as to Yoda's and Luke's beliefs?
Originally posted by truejedi
FOTJ just came to closure. It provides insight into what tipped the balance of the force. It mentions nothing about Plageious or Sidious.
{Mine is a digital copy on Notepad, excuse the lack of page numbers.}
"Thuruht believes that a change in the Current caused Abeloth's release," Raynar said, summarizing for his companions. He turned back to Thuruht. "But the Jedi believe the future is always in motion. So I have trouble seeing why a change in the Current would release Abeloth."
You know, Thuruht replied. Abeloth was freed the same way she is always freed. The Current was turned.The current of time? Raynar asked. He thought of Jacen Solo and his flow-walking. Tahiri had told the Masters that she was convinced that Jacen fell to the dark side trying to prevent some tragic event that he had seen in the future, and that he had been fond of using flow-walking to look at both directions in time. Or do you mean the Force current?
Is there a difference? It is the Force that guides the future.
And when the Current turns, Thuruht said, it is the Force that suffers.
"Yes," Thuruht replied. "The Force guides the Current. It is impossible to turn the Current without also changing the Force.""And that is what frees Abeloth," Raynar clarified.
"Yes," Thuruht agreed. "The Force is in the dominion of the Celestials. When their power is usurped, the Bringer of Chaos comes."
^ From Thuruht, there is no contradiction. Abeloth is released after the balance is tipped.
Originally posted by truejedi
I think Luke is the one who realizes that Anakin's rejection of the throne of Mortis let the force slip out of balance and spin towards the dark side.His information about Mortis, came from Yoda.
Luke nodded. "Of course," he said. "But there isn't a lot to tell. In Yoda's story, Obi-Wan and Anakin Skywalker encountered the Father when he was dying. The Son and the Daughter were at odds because the Son wanted to take the Father's place. The Father told Anakin that he had been chosen to assume the Father's place-and keep the balance between the two siblings. When Anakin refused, matters came to a head. The Ones fought, all three were slain, and their world died with them."
^ Again, no contradiction in sight.
Here are two quotes.
"His father’s refusal to become the new Keeper of the Balance had set off a terrible chain of events. All three of the Ones had died, and now the Force was out of Balance.
Looking back over the last half a century, it certainly seemed to Luke there had been a shift toward chaos."
And shortly after.
"The galaxy was tipping toward darkness before their eyes, and as far as Luke could see, the Jedi and their allies were the only ones capable of restoring Balance. If they did not dedicate themselves completely to the light all would be lost."
Thank you ares: And this:
Luke nodded. "Of course," he said. "But there isn't a lot to tell. In Yoda's story, Obi-Wan and Anakin Skywalker encountered the Father when he was dying. The Son and the Daughter were at odds because the Son wanted to take the Father's place. The Father told Anakin that he had been chosen to assume the Father's place-and keep the balance between the two siblings. When Anakin refused, matters came to a head. The Ones fought, all three were slain, and their world died with them."
The book insinuates that the death of the Ones was what tipped the balance of the force to the dark side.
Originally posted by truejedi
I think Luke is the one who realizes that Anakin's rejection of the throne of Mortis let the force slip out of balance and spin towards the dark side.His information about Mortis, came from Yoda.
Was it really Anakin's destiny to take the father's place or it is just a father trying to find someone to look after his kids? Is it really destiny of the Force or just an example of someone's egoism?
Son showed Anakin his future as Darth Vader. Maybe this is the real Anakin's destiny?
See how opened all this new information to interpretation?
ty
There's no real contradiction, though. Plagueis & Sidious were active participants in the ritual; Yoda's information is second hand, Luke's is third hand. The Force's imbalance was established by Mace to have occurred prior to the films in TPM and AOTC, which chronologically precede the Father's death in the Mortis trilogy.
Originally posted by Arhael
Was it really Anakin's destiny to take the father's place or it is just a father trying to find someone to look after his kids? Is it really destiny of the Force or just an example of someone's egoism?
Until Apocalypse came out I always thought the Ones didn't actually "exist". Rather they were like the Vader illusion that Luke confronts in the dark side cave. So of Anakin "stayed behind" it wouldn't be that he literally took the Father's place and lived on Mortis but rather he would give up on his worldly desires (Padme).
Originally posted by Arhael
Son showed Anakin his future as Darth Vader. Maybe this is the real Anakin's destiny?
The Jedi Covenant also have a vision of Vader almost 4000 years before. Anyway, I've always thought it was a cool idea that Anakin didn't merely bring balance to the force by destroying the Sith but also the Old Jedi Order as they had grown stagnant and ineffective. This would then allow Luke's new superior Order grow.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I found a comprehensive respect thread on Plagueis. After reading it I definately think he can take Jacen.
You post in the OBD?