Savage Oppress vs Darth Maul (circa The Clone Wars)

Ok ^^

Hmm i think that Savage's "boost" (like you called it) its not pernament boost - its just momentary rage.

Anyway, even with this rage he is in trouble against force attacks (Ventress's push, Dooku's lightning). On the other hand - Anakin was almost inviolable against Dooku's force powers, when he was under influence of his rage (ROTS novel). So catching Dooku (who probably was too surprised to defend himself) is his only Savage's success.

Ah, and Ventress held Anakin and Obi-Wan about 3 seconds only because of an explosion on the ship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUI7ujyeL38

Originally posted by Zett
Ok ^^

Hmm i think that Savage's "boost" (like you called it) its not pernament boost - its just momentary rage.

Anyway, even with this rage he is in trouble against force attacks (Ventress's push, Dooku's lightning). On the other hand - Anakin was almost inviolable against Dooku's force powers, when he was under influence of his rage (ROTS novel). So catching Dooku (who probably was too surprised to defend himself) is his only Savage's success.

With Anakin beating Dooku it wasn't just a one-off rage thing. It was a moment of clarity he had about how he can use his anger.(ROTS Novel)

I believe a similar thing happened with Savage. Because it was too long a boost and too big a part of the story to put down as a one-off. If it was just a temporary one-off then what was the point of it all story wise?? I think it was to show the raw power at this monster's disposal, and how powerful he will become with proper training. (Though I admit he may not be able to unleash that same level of power at will presently).

And then we have in the episode "brothers" Dooku being seriously worried about Savage's power level and how it's growing. So I think the story arc is obviously about how powerful this guy is and how powerful he is on his way to becoming.

You may be right. I've hope we will get a few wonderful duels in the next seasons.

No it's not. But "after proper training" seems as if if you are indicating raw power... [/B]

How about Exar Kun raw power? Regular Force-sensitive but as Sith he became extraordinary powerful, drained life out of entire Massasi race and at the end became spirit capable to control minds of apprentices and attack Jedi with Force directly.

What was raw power of Darth Nihilus? Doesn't matter as his power was limited only to time he needed to reach new inhabited place to feed on it.

Was Vitiate's raw power more, than Anakin? I doubt so. But his Force natural talents allowed him to dominate others and feed on them at the same time to become stronger, then he consumed whole planet and then it doesn't matter what his raw power ones had been.

The Son and Daughter did not have more raw power, than Anakin. Yet, their capabilities were beyond Anakin's in every way as they were imbued by Force nexus through Father.

Yet, Jedi like Luke, Yoda, Windu and many more with only their own potential manage to fight those much more powerful Force abusers on equal terms. And that is the beauty of Star Wars that prevail not those who have the most power but those who selflessly fight for the right thing with calm in their heart. That is why for me it is easy to believe that Oppress is more powerful, than Yoda and Windu. And, yet he will be defeated. But I hope that he will not be just killed but will be freed from nightsister spell and become normal person again, the noble warrior with morals as he ones had been.

Originally posted by Arhael
In my believes raw power is not a measure factor, when evaluating Sith.

Ok... Then why did you bring what Savage could be "with proper training" up?

Originally posted by Arhael Yet, Jedi like Luke, Yoda, Windu and many more with only their own potential manage to fight those much more powerful Force abusers on equal terms. And that is the beauty of Star Wars that prevail not those who have the most power but those who selflessly fight for the right thing with calm in their heart. That is why for me it is easy to believe that Oppress is more powerful, than Yoda and Windu. And, yet he will be defeated. But I hope that he will not be just killed but will be freed from nightsister spell and become normal person again, the noble warrior with morals as he ones had been.

This is completley faulty logic. Sure, people can defeat those who have more power then them but that doesn't mean villians have to be more powerful than the Jedi... Reagrdless, Mace and Yoda have the far better feats indicating that they are more powerful than Savage.

Ok... Then why did you bring what Savage could be "with proper training" up?

This is completely faulty logic. Sure, people can defeat those who have more power then them but that doesn't mean villians have to be more powerful than the Jedi... Reagrdless, Mace and Yoda have the far better feats indicating that they are more powerful than Savage. [/B]

Originally posted by Arhael
He is already imbued by nightsister magic. Proper training would teach him to use the power given to him.

Um yeah... You're still talking about raw power.

Originally posted by Arhael
I agree that ordinary Sith are not more powerful, than Jedi. For example, Dooku wasn't typical Sith, yet, he used only his own potential(raw power), so he wasn't more powerful as Sith, than as Jedi.

What?

And Dooku is more powerful as a Sith. "Powerful you have become Dooku. The dark side I sense in you."

However, Oppress is no general Sith, it is product of darkside sorcery.

He was possibly amped... So? That doesn't make him more powerful than Yoda, Mace, or even Dooku as these three have far more impressive feats.

Um yeah... You're still talking about raw power.

What?

And Dooku is more powerful as a Sith. "Powerful you have become Dooku. The dark side I sense in you."

He was possibly amped... So? That doesn't make him more powerful than Yoda, Mace, or even Dooku as these three have far more impressive feats.

Originally posted by ares834
Um yeah... You're still talking about raw power.

That's the point. Savage has the Raw power, but lacks skill. As he gains more skill he's going to become a seriously dangerous threat, and it will take one of the Big Guns (Mace/Yoda/Sidious) to take him down Imo.

Originally posted by ares834
That doesn't make him more powerful than Yoda, Mace, or even Dooku as these three have far more impressive feats.

So why is Dooku so worried about him then? And Im curious Ares what these feats are of Mace and Dooku that are "far more impressive" than a Force wave which puts down 3 Destroyer Droids, a load of Battle droids plus 2 Jedi onto their rear.

When has a Force wave from Dooku sent both Anakin and Obi-Wan flying back simultaneously, putting them both on their rear with lightsabers even deignited for a second. Do you think Mace can do that to those 2 as well? In fact do you see Mace and Dooku not only doing that but doing a "far more impressive" force wave feat than that??

Also where would you place Savage at the moment in terms of power. Becuase judging from the last episode he's clearly well beyond Obi-Wan or Ventress. And as per Dooku's words he's clearly only going to get even more powerful.

Originally posted by Zett
You may be right. I've hope we will get a few wonderful duels in the next seasons.

👆

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So why is Dooku so worried about him then?

Just a thought; Wasn't Sidious worried about Ventress' growing power (which lead to her abandonment by Dooku at the beginning of the Savage/Nightsisters story arc)? That doesn't mean that she's anywhere near as powerful as Sidious. IJS.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Just a thought; Wasn't Sidious worried about Ventress' growing power (which lead to her abandonment by Dooku at the beginning of the Savage/Nightsisters story arc)? That doesn't mean that she's anywhere near as powerful as Sidious. IJS.

True but if you remember JT, Sidious says to Dooku "I would hate to think you were training your own sith apprentice to overthrow me"

In other words Sidious was worried at the possibility of Ventress growing even more powerful, and then Dooku and her together destroying Sidious.

And in fact that was exactly what Dooku was planning to do as he says to Savage later "Soon your power will rival that of the great sith lord Darth Maul and we will be even more powerful than Darth Sidious.."

Always happens like that. Vader had the same intention with his secret apprentices, and later with Luke, that together they will overthrow the Emporer.

Whilst now Dooku is worried about Savage who is on his own(as far as he knows). No team, no army, just him, out there somewhere becoming more powerful. He even says he's a threat to "all of us" including the Jedi.

This is a random question but when did the nightsisters become powerful enough to imbue someone with enough power to rival or surpass the likes of Anakin, obi wan, dooku etc... why dont they make a few more? Why havent they done it before or since? i like savage as a character i just feel they did a poor job explainijg his huge power jump. It would have been nice if the gave some sort of explaination like the sisters gave him their power now they're weakend, or used some amulet with the essence of a very powerful dead nightsister, or transferred mauls spirit to his body, or something. Not just have some witches who have been depicted as fairly weak in the past to chant for 30 seconds and create a superpowered, multi- top tier whoopin bad ass with enough raw power to frighten Dooku.

Originally posted by Raptor22
This is a random question but when did the nightsisters become powerful enough to imbue someone with enough power to rival or surpass the likes of Anakin, obi wan, dooku etc... why dont they make a few more? Why havent they done it before or since? i like savage as a character i just feel they did a poor job explainijg his huge power jump. It would have been nice if the gave some sort of explaination like the sisters gave him their power now they're weakend, or used some amulet with the essence of a very powerful dead nightsister, or transferred mauls spirit to his body, or something. Not just have some witches who have been depicted as fairly weak in the past to chant for 30 seconds and create a superpowered, multi- top tier whoopin bad ass with enough raw power to frighten Dooku.

I find myself wondering the same thing. Best explanation I can come up with is that they (the writers, producers, etc...) just don't give a flying **** about logic and continuity. It's all about viewership and as such, Savage Oppress is a vehicle by which to attract that viewership.

Originally posted by Raptor22
This is a random question but when did the nightsisters become powerful enough to imbue someone with enough power to rival or surpass the likes of Anakin, obi wan, dooku etc...

When Lucas decided they could..

But the force potential was his own. As far as I understand they didn't give him that. Ventress went to find the best from a force sensitive, warrior like clan.

Remeber before they imbued him with any magic, Mother Talzin said "This One is Powerful.." Also remeber before he even met Savage, Dooku was interested in getting an apprentice from Maul's bloodline.

What the Nightsisters magic did seem to do though was somehow increase the rate at which he could learn to use the force. Perhaps make all his raw power/potential more readily available to him. I agree we could have used an explanation instead of just having to guess though.

They also clearly made him much larger and physically stronger.

Also I doubt his potential and raw power is anywhere close to Anakin's.

Originally posted by Raptor22
why dont they make a few more? Why havent they done it before or since?

For what purpose? Make all the men bigger and stronger? They won't all get training from a Sith Lord like Savage did, and they won't all have nearly as much potential or raw power as Savage either.

Also the nightsisters are already formidable warriors and they prefer to keep the men under control. Also it probably would take way too much power to do it to all the men.

And who knows we might get an eu story about someone it was done to before.

Originally posted by Raptor22
i like savage as a character i just feel they did a poor job explainijg his huge power jump. It would have been nice if the gave some sort of explaination like the sisters gave him their power now they're weakend, or used some amulet with the essence of a very powerful dead nightsister, or transferred mauls spirit to his body, or something. Not just have some witches who have been depicted as fairly weak in the past to chant for 30 seconds and create a superpowered, multi- top tier whoopin bad ass with enough raw power to frighten Dooku.

Nightsisters have never been weak. In Darth Maul Black Sun, one temporarily downed Maul with Force Lightning. And of course Ventress is a nightsister. So Im not sure where you got that they are weak.

Plus Lucas and Filoni made it clear their magic is something completely different to the force powers they have. And it seems the magic mainly all comes from Mother Talzin anyway.

But I do agree a further explanation in the episodes of what they did exactly to Savage would have been nice. As well as a proper explanation as to where the heck Maul got his spider legs from!

At this point, I don't think we need an explanation on how Maul got his mecha-spider legs. I think we should just ignore that he even got them in the first place.

I've decided have to give the Saber fight to Maul. But will be difficult due to Savage's strength (physical and force enhanced).

Not sure about the all out. Probably still Savage. His Force TK feats are too impressive.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That's the point. Savage has the Raw power, but lacks skill. As he gains more skill he's going to become a seriously dangerous threat, and it will take one of the Big Guns (Mace/Yoda/Sidious) to take him down Imo.

Mark my words, Ahsoka will kill him.

So why is Dooku so worried about him then? And Im curious Ares what these feats are of Mace and Dooku that are "far more impressive" than a Force wave which puts down 3 Destroyer Droids, a load of Battle droids plus 2 Jedi onto their rear.

He is worried about what he will become. With that said Savage would proove a challenge for Dooku if he didn't spam lightning.

Mace has pushed an AT-TE off a cliff; then, of course, there is him matching Palps in a swordfight. He also uses a casual push to destroy a large group of droids...

Dooku, meanwhile, managed to defeat Sora Bulq with a short burst of lightning. Held his own against Yoda in a lightsaber duel several times, owned Ventress with a twitch of his finger, etc.

When has a Force wave from Dooku sent both Anakin and Obi-Wan flying back simultaneously, putting them both on their rear with lightsabers even deignited for a second. Do you think Mace can do that to those 2 as well? In fact do you see Mace and Dooku not only doing that but doing a "far more impressive" force wave feat than that??

Ventress managed to choke both Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time. I can easily see Mace or Dooku using the force to knock both down for awhile. Hell in RotS, Dooku chokes and knocks out Obi-Wan while simultaneously blasting back Anakin...

Originally posted by ares834
Mark my words, Ahsoka will kill him.

Haha! You're joking right? I hope you are. God I hope that doesn't happen!

Originally posted by ares834
He is worried about what he will become. With that said Savage would proove a challenge for Dooku if he didn't spam lightning.

Mace has pushed an AT-TE off a cliff; then, of course, there is him matching Palps in a swordfight. He also uses a casual push to destroy a large group of droids...

Dooku, meanwhile, managed to defeat Sora Bulq with a short burst of lightning. Held his own against Yoda in a lightsaber duel several times, owned Ventress with a twitch of his finger, etc.

Ventress managed to choke both Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time. I can easily see Mace or Dooku using the force to knock both down for awhile. Hell in RotS, Dooku chokes and knocks out Obi-Wan while simultaneously blasting back Anakin...

Yeah Ive changed my mind. I think his raw power seems to be on par with what we've seen from Mace. The feats you've given of Mace are comparable, but not superior imo.

But of course "as of now" Mace and Dooku are still far more "skilled".

thats darth mauls brother you guys

^ Yes we do know that.

I see Savage as the powerhouse(physical and in the force) and Maul as one of the most skilled warriors of the mythos.

This could play out similar to the Bane vs Kas'im fight.