Juri Han X Akuma (normal)

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
And how sure are we that Gouki and Vega did not do battle before he was SGSed? And being killed quickly sounds bad, but when you say the character is eliminated with an SGS, then you say, "Oh of course!".

There never has been any specifics on what actually happened. So we wont assume anything other than what was shown. Akuma pops up and SGSs the shit outta Bison. Can he do it to 3 Bisons? Sure, why not. It looks damn-easy enough.

We get the point, Juri is stronger than given credit for. But Akuma will still embarrass her, easily. There is no contest here. And of all Akuma's, you use SFIII? It's the match for the ages if you hate Juri.😂

Originally posted by NemeBro
A bunch of unsupported bullshit.

Also, teleportation doesn't utilise "speed", because it eliminates time from the equation, at least assuming the teleportation process (The time from when you move between one space and another) is instantaneous.
Oh, and teleportation is not a substitute for raw speed or reaction-time.

... And... Where are you getting this Bison teleport-punched her shit from? Looks like the Psycho Crusher to me. 😬

You are aware that a lightning strike is many kilometers long and that most lightning strikes are made up of multiple individual strokes, right? Said strokes often-times being split by a relatively signifigant margin to make the illusion of one bolt right? And that said re-strikes cause a strobe light effect, right? Really, the only visible part of lightning is the return stroke, streak lightning.
Lightning is visible as a flash of light because of both incandescence (due to its high temperature it glows blue-white) and luminescence (excitation of nitrogen gas in the atmosphere). Nitrogen, the dominant gas in the atmosphere, is excited by this strong flow of energy, its electrons moving to higher energy states. The distinctive blue-white color of lightning is caused by light emitted as the electrons drop back to their original energy states. This does not mean a human being could easily perceive a human sized body moving at 60,000+ meters per second. There are reasons that lightning is visible. None have to do with it being too slow.

I know that lightning is hotter than the surface of the sun. What is your point?

Right, like what Juri was doing.

Okay first of all: We can see Juri. 😐 We can see the purple blur as she moves (Probably emanating from her Feng Sui or however it is spelled Engine). By your own words, if she was so fast as to disappear from sight it wouldn't matter how bright it is (And it isn't very bright). Beyond that, said purple blur continuously leaves the edges of the screen as she attacks.

No but seriously: Prove Juri would have to be faster than lightning to disappear from sight, until then nothing you say matters.

You know much less than what you think you know.

Right. Always the case with $h!t you don't like, but hatahz gonna hate.

Are you takin time to actually read your own posts? Time dictates speed. If you remove time from a punch, the punch becomes nigh-instant, barin the instant needed to disappear and reappear in another place, which is miniscule. It's like dodgin a teleport lunge from Night Crawler.

I don't think you know what a Psycho Crusher looks like, pal.

Okay, I hope you feel really good about yurself now, cuz all those Google facts you slapped up their completely avoid the point being made. Which was, at high enough speeds, flashes of light will not even register to the human eye. The brightest thing in the universe, the beginning of a Quasar, can't be seen until after it has already occurred. The eyes will never be fast enough to witness a flash brighter than a billion galaxies. Which leads back to my point. Lightning is slow enough to see, its brightness helps, but it is not an applicable excuse. There a brighter things than lightning that occur too fast to even register.

I didn't think you did. Just tryin to put that out there before you try and argue me down about that, too.

😆 Juri ran circles around Chun, you can see the streaks curve around her body. Juri may be runnin around Chun, but she never leaves the viewers line of sight. Which is my point.

Pure denial or not payin close attention is all that is that paragraph is sayin to me.

What? I've, in fact we, have been doin that this whole time. This never changes with you. But hatahz will continue to do, what is they do.

The extent of your own ignorance leads you to that conclusion. . .

@DSZ and No End

What, I'm not undestanding is, if we can all agree that Shin Vega VS Shin Gouki is virtually a toss up, why would their weaker levels not match up? If Shin Gouki and Vega are even, for the most part, why would removing just 1/4 of Shin Vega's power make Vega an EASY kill for NORMAL Gouki? Especially when it's already established that Gouki would need his Shin form to battle Shin Vega.

If Juri can keep up with 75% Vega, how is she an EASY kill for Gouki? I don't get it.

huh who said anything about mach 200, or was thinking more along the lines of mach 3 to mach 10. and I was thinking of along the lines of her depending how fast she can dodge a sonic boom, and how fast she could dodge a point blank shot.

The eyes will never be fast enough to witness a flash brighter than a billion galaxies. Which leads back to my point. Lightning is slow enough to see, its brightness helps, but it is not an applicable excuse. There a brighter things than lightning that occur too fast to even register.

I've heard as little as a few 10s of relatively low energy photons or maybe less may be detectable at highest sensitivity state.

Originally posted by unrealman
huh who said anything about mach 200

I did, since she was capable of reactin to Bison's sneak attack, which involved him teleportin, just his arm, to kill Juri. Bison then steps out of a worm whole.

Bison's teleport can be so broken that he can, in fact, teleport back into his own after image, before it leaves. All of this can be seen, even in game, like so. . .

YouTube video

He blinks back into his own after image so quickly that you don't even see the blink, however, when Gouken swings at'im, he appears intangible, clearly showin that for an undetectable instant, even in the game, Bison was actually not there. And then you see Bison come out of the purple image to continue the battle. This can be seen somewhere in between 0:11-0:12 of the vid. This ridiculous feat can be seen again, in another instance @ 0:53-0:53.

We know how Bison fights, he will spam teleports, so for a character to keep with'im, without actually havin a teleport of their own, is well above a mach 10, or even a mach 100. It's rather close to instantaneous, which means no time.

Originally posted by En Sabah Nur X
I've heard as little as a few 10s of relatively low energy photons or maybe less may be detectable at highest sensitivity state.

Your brain will 'react' to the presence of a single photon through prisms (slowin down, splittin, and "clonin" the minute photons). But the reaction/detection doesn't equate to sight. The brain will "subconsciously detect" a or a some photon(s). That's what I've learned.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
@DSZ and No End

What, I'm not undestanding is, if we can all agree that Shin Vega VS Shin Gouki is virtually a toss up, why would their weaker levels not match up? If Shin Gouki and Vega are even, for the most part, why would removing just 1/4 of Shin Vega's power make Vega an EASY kill for NORMAL Gouki? Especially when it's already established that Gouki would need his Shin form to battle Shin Vega.

If Juri can keep up with 75% Vega, how is she an EASY kill for Gouki? I don't get it.

What?! I know I never agreed to that shit! I said Akuma would have to go beyond his normal lvls to deal with Bison's more "eXtra" powers. That doesn't mean he has to go all out, he just has to use a lil more power than his normal form would allow. He has the showings necessary, in his normal state, to put the hurt on Bison, alone. Defeatin'im and dealin with all his psychic malarkey will just require a bit more power than he normal uses.

What is instant or instantaneous? What we perceive as instant can in truth(and virtually always is, as a matter of fact) be very far from instant. In case of SF4, "instant" means more or less 0.0166666666666667 seconds.

Hmmmm. . .curious to know why you chose that number? Just to make sure. Cuz to be honest, I was way too lazy to actually try an measure an instant/Psycho warp in SFIV.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Hmmmm. . .curious to know why you chose that number? Just to make sure. Cuz to be honest, I was way too lazy to actually try an measure an instant/Psycho warp in SFIV.

Now I'm not 100% sure if I'm right, but the game runs at 60 frames per second. Therefor 1/60 = 0.0166666666666667 is the time needed for any measurable change to occur in the game.

here's Bison using his teleport to escape Heihachi headbutt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azjxWNRs4sA#t=0m30s

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Now I'm not 100% sure if I'm right, but the game runs at 60 frames per second. Therefor 1/60 = 0.0166666666666667 is the time needed for any measurable change to occur in the game.

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/nov/13/m-bison-dictator-frame-data-street-fighter-4/

As shown here, there a NO start up frames OR active frames of animation for his teleport. It just happens, or happens in less than a single frame. There are 42 recovery frames, but that's just stopping it from being broken.

Originally posted by No End N Site
What?! I know I never agreed to that shit! I said Akuma would have to go beyond his normal lvls to deal with Bison's more "eXtra" powers. That doesn't mean he has to go all out, he just has to use a lil more power than his normal form would allow. He has the showings necessary, in his normal state, to put the hurt on Bison, alone. Defeatin'im and dealin with all his psychic malarkey will just require a bit more power than he normal uses.

Vega can fire psychokinetic blasts that reduce cities to burning mushroom clouds. If that's just his basic psychic blasts, when applied to TK and hypnosis he should be able to wreck whole cities, like throwing sky scrappers and toppling buildings. Add in teleport spam and mach speed flight and that's FAR MORE than Gouki has ever dealt with.

The man's presence causes wild thunder storms and his psychic powers form GIANT clouds that fill the sky in the shape of a skull. His powers are very radical, and there is NO proof that just a "little Shin", is enough to deal with it.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
Frame consideration is actually a rather excellent idea. However, it still raises a problem, since there is less than 1 active frame in Vega's teleport.

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/nov/13/m-bison-dictator-frame-data-street-fighter-4/

As shown here, there a NO start up frames OR active frames of animation for his teleport. It just happens, or happens in less than a single frame. There are 42 recovery frames, but that's just stopping it from being broken.

That probably just means that the teleport action is contained within a single frame. If you took half a frame, Bison's upper body would be gone while his legs would still be there. At any rate, this is just really gameplay mechanics where a sonic boom travels at a pace of a brisk walk.

here's Bison teleporting him self and Juri in Street fighter X Tekken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-bJimnB1dk

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
That probably just means that the teleport action is contained within a single frame. If you took half a frame, Bison's upper body would be gone while his legs would still be there. At any rate, this is just really gameplay mechanics where a sonic boom travels at a pace of a brisk walk.

If it was contained in a single frame, it would count as 1 frame. There is no frame.

And guile's sonic boom is a tool used for zoning, having it go the speed of a sonic boom would make it broken. Guile's also a good guy, he does not throw SBs with the intent to kill, especially since the attack is described as a cutting attack, at full power.

Vega's attack is a teleport, in game, and behaves as such. Even in game. I think the "gameplay" argument holds little weight here.

X

Dodging a teleport is normally more about anticipation then anything. They have to come out of the teleport to attack, and it boils down to dodging when they can attack. The vid you sent pretty much showed that, he vanished and she jumped right as he was coming out. So her really would still only be as much as it took to dodge the actual punch, not the teleport.

Also the whole turning invisible thing, doesn't prove she's faster then lightning, since there are things slower that we can't see as well. Along with the fact that it may just be artistic license in how the move looks. Same as how we can see characters going lightspeed in games and shows, yet have guys like spidey man being invisble at other times.. Without context of who exactly she's invisible too it doesn't mean much.

Now Juri may be as fast as you're saying, but I'm just saying that there should be better evidence. Especially since the ultra special is being done in gameplay.

How can juri anticipate vega, teleporting to her location with a flaming extended arm in hong kong, from Thailand?

And What are these slower things, that are human sized, we can't see? While they move, only in our field of sight? I'm in serious doubt about her depiction of speed being "artistic liscense" when you consider she is capable of going 1 on 1 with a version of vega, 3x more powerful than a lesser form that teleported so much, it took 5 fighters to actually catch him off guard.

Juri's vanishing act is a clear depiction of her speed, since she is actually that fast.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
How can juri anticipate vega, teleporting to her location, in hong kong, from Thailand?

And What are these slower things, that are human sized, we can't see? While they move, only in our field of sight? I'n in serious doubt about her depiction of speed being "artistic liscense" when you consider she capable of going 1 on 1 with a version of vega, 3x more powerful than a lesser form that teleported do much, it took 5 fighters to actually catch him off guard.

Juri's vanishing act is a clear depiction of her speed, since she is actually that fast.

I wasn't talking about human sized, I was commenting on you saying it makes her faster then lightning since we can see it. Lightning is much larger then a human, just as there are smaller things then juri that we can't see when going slower. Follow me?

She had her eyes closed, it honestly seems like one of those mystical martial arts things. Like when they sense someone trying to kill them, plus her eye thing. May be wrong though, didn't play that, just saying dodging teleport doesn't automatically mean mach 8000 or anything

Well what's the other evidence of her speed, because an ultra special isn't a good argument since it's gameplay. I mean look at how slow they have the projectiles move.

Originally posted by jalek moye
I wasn't talking about human sized, I was commenting on you saying it makes her faster then lightning since we can see it. Lightning is much larger then a human, just as there are smaller things then juri that we can't see when going slower. Follow me?

She had her eyes closed, it honestly seems like one of those mystical martial arts things. Like when they sense someone trying to kill them, plus her eye thing. May be wrong though, didn't play that, just saying dodging teleport doesn't automatically mean mach 8000 or anything

Well what's the other evidence of her speed, because an ultra special isn't a good argument since it's gameplay. I mean look at how slow they have the projectiles move.

I NEVER said because you can see lightning, anything moving so fast you can't see, is faster than Lightning. However, given the mechanics of this particular situation, Juri is faster than lightning, since she never goes off the screen and we still can't see her. If it is in your face, is the size of a human, and never leaves from in front of you eyes, and you still can't see it. It is faster than lightning and is actually a high-end physics issue.

But that wasn't the case since Vega was coming from Shadaloo base with the attack. And Juri has not shown the ability to sense others power from far way. This just means she sensed him the moment he got there, which was a very short amount of time. Dodging a Psycho Warp, even with figures posted above, would make Juri well above Mach 8000.

Your excuse makes it sound as though everything is slower in gameplay. This means Juri is even faster outside of it. The gameplay argument is also very poor since she has demonstrated she can cause this affect outside of gameplay. Fighting games can accurately portray character's powers.......most of the time, actually.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
If it was contained in a single frame, it would count as 1 frame. There is no frame.

And guile's sonic boom is a tool used for zoning, having it go the speed of a sonic boom would make it broken. Guile's also a good guy, he does not throw SBs with the intent to kill, especially since the attack is described as a cutting attack, at full power.

Vega's attack is a teleport, in game, and behaves as such. Even in game. I think the "gameplay" argument holds little weight here.

Of course there is a frame. There cannot not be a frame.

Isn't "zoning" a purely gameplay concept? Shouldn't a sonic boom move at the very least at the speed of sound? I think it's quite simple: all these greatly superhuman characters are controlled by mere human beings with limited reaction times. I mean, come on, next thing you'll tell me that they actually fight in a 2D plane.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Of course there is a frame. There cannot not be a frame.

Isn't "zoning" a purely gameplay concept? Shouldn't a sonic boom move at the very least at the speed of sound? I think it's quite simple: all these greatly superhuman characters are controlled by mere human beings with limited reaction times. I mean, come on, next thing you'll tell me that they actually fight in a 2D plane.

But there can be, very close, to a "no frame" teleport. The one frame needed is for him to reappear. It doesn't require a frame to disappear, especially since it can be used as a cancel. However, this 1 frame has him reappear as an after image and is actually part of the 42 frame recovery, which can be Karaed out of after the 1st frame, anyway. Thus, even for the 1 frame it takes for him to come back on the screen, it is intangible.

Also, you must've missed the part where he says Guile holds back? Guile does hold back. In the game manual, his SBs are stated to be able to "slice through any thing". Of course Guile isn't throwin SBs to cut Ryu and Blanka in half. Just like Akuma holds back and aint destroyin islands with every punch in the game.

I get the point you're trying to make, but not every thing in gameplay is inadmissible. Many things actually coincide with the character's personalities and actual story. Usin yur logic, Guile isn't capable of doin a Sonic Hurricane cuz he's only been shown to do the move, in gameplay.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
It is faster than lightning and is actually a high-end physics issue.

This whole discussion will be laid to rest soon, anyway. I just went to Ask A Physicist. I got an answer, originally, but it wasn't a very helpful one. So I had to ask a follow up and I'm waitin on that now. Here's what went down. . .

Originally Asked by Me
Hello and thank you for your time. This is probably a very
difficult question, but here we go.

If an average person is standing 10ft in front of me and is running back and
forth in my field of sight, the distance the person runs back and forth in
front of me is so short, that I would not have to even turn my head or move
my eyes to keep track of them. If they were to run back and forth, in that
short distance, so fast that they literally become invisible, how many MPH
would they be moving?

Also of note, the person is wearing a necklace with a light on it. I can not
see their body, but I can see the light, however, they are moving so fast,
that the light trails appear in dozens of places at 1 time..

Originally answered by The Physicist
They would never be "invisible", it is impossible. To give you a better look at this scenario, a humanbeing would cleanly view a jet at Mach 10, if the aircraft is coming towrad them. Remaining within their 20/20 in of course.