Magnus the Red vs Kratos.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Magnus is the Primarch (Basically, the leading general and demigod warrior) of the Thousand Sons legion of Space Marines, from the Warhammer 40,000 setting.

Among all the legions, the Thousand Sons were (in)famous for their unparalleled mastery of arcane knowledge and psychic power (Psychic powers are basically magic in the 40k universe). Magnus himself was renowned as being the most powerful psyker among all the Primarchs, and in the 40k setting he is the most powerful psyker short of his father, the Emperor of Mankind. Magnus was also known for his fearsome appearance, with unattractive features and a single eye that changed color and intensity seemingly at random but also due to his mood, and was known to be a giant. Even among Primarchs, who average at a little over ten feet tall, Magnus was considered enormous, his size unmatched by any other Primarch, with only Leman Russ of the Space Wolves and Ferrus Manus of the Iron Hands nearing his size. It should also be mentioned that some, notably Horus and Lorgar, seem to consider Magnus the most powerful Primarch as well, Lorgar outright stating it, and Horus implying it when he tried to enlist Magnus's help in controlling an enraged Lorgar (Only for Magnus to tell Horus to stop being a pussy and handle his own ship).

As for his actual power, he is an enormously powerful telepath. Lorgar proved himself capable of psychically toying with a Daemon that could control the minds of an entire planet-wide civilization, he could have killed it at any time. Magnus then, with a chunk of his psychic power devoted towards maintaining a psychic apparition/avatar on the presence of Lorgar's ship (Magnus himself was on the other side of the galaxy), telepathically dominated Lorgar. Magnus can also slow and even stop time on a planet-wide scale, and can kill hundreds of Space Marines by glancing at them.

Oh and as a Primarch he can punch mountains to rubble and stuff.

Edit: JUST TO LET YOU KNOW STUFF ABOUT MAGNUS.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I agree with the last part.

He was so arrogant that he assumed he was experiencing sub-conscious thoughts that he never had before and that this was an extension of his perfection, because it seemed impossible that such a perfect being as he could be influenced by something else.

Plus he talks to shit paintings, as in, literally painted with fecal matter.

Erebus: Yo dawg statues will be built of Primarchs, but not you, you won't be remembered.

Horus: WHAT THE **** I AM AWESOME I DESERVE TO BE IMMORTALISED.

What an assblaster.

I should point out that Magnus was also, despite his belief, ignorant of the true nature of Chaos, unaware of the gods that lurked inside.

Of course.

The one he crushed in the palm of his hand?

Russ and Magnus have a long history of vitriol against one another, and to be blunt Russ is factually an ignorant savage.

Russ and Magnus are a lot alike, in that they both think they know what's what better than everyone else. Even many other Primarchs think Russ stepped way out of line with how he handled the Prospero issue, he was meant to detain Magnus the Red and sanction the planet, not bomb it from orbit before staging a full-scale invasion.

Magnus treats Russ like an ignorant savage because he is one. He promised Magnus that he would leave the library intact for the Sons after the war on Shrike. He proceeds to go back on his word and attack the Thousand Sons, trying to burn the library. He then has the audacity to get pissed off when the Wolves get their asses kicked (I should add that none of the Space Wolves were killed, the Sons incapacitated them nonlethally), and desired right then and there to kill Magnus, and were it not for Lorgar's intervention, he would have tried to.

And as Prospero Burns shows, the Thousand Sons defecting to Chaos could have been completely avoided if Russ would have not always assumed the worst about Magnus.

His main opponent in the debate was Mortarion. Mortarion, one of the most simple, brutal, and sinister Primarchs. And... Why shouldn't Magnus think lesser of the people who deceived him into coming to what he was told was a war council, that turned out to be a ****ing trial? Most damning is that most of the Primarchs were there to watch the trial, but only Sanguinius, Fulgrim, and Mortarion had the balls to show their faces to him (Russ would have liked to, but the Emperor forbade it).

Magnus, despite his anger, presented his case well, and actually got the majority of the spectators to join his side. But then of course in comes the Emperor handling shit in a heavy-handed and idiotic way, as he always does.

The Emperor doesn't explain why his way of thinking is right, he just tells you what the **** to do and expects you to listen. Many of the Primarchs understandably didn't respond well to that.

True, Magnus, as all Primarchs do, views mortals as fairly expendable.

More or less, yes.

Emperor: Hey Magnus don't do that.
Magnus: Why not?
Emperor: SHUT THE **** UP AND DO WHAT I SAY.

The Emperor consistently lied to his Primarchs and didn't trust them with anything.

What makes Magnus sympathetic and tragic though is that, barring borderline Sues like Sanguinius, Magnus was one of the most personiable, charismatic, and kind Primarchs. Although he did indeed believe himself to be the bestest ever, he also treated mortals, mere humans, better than most Primarchs would. He also did in fact have noble intentions from the end, and while he made mistakes, it only got so bad because of guys like Leman Russ, Valdor, and the Emperor.

Need I remind you that Magnus accidently destroyed the Webway. Had the Emperor just, you know, told the guy he wanted to sit on it about what he was doing on Terra, it could have been entirely avoided.

Oh I would agree, Magnus more or less got what he deserved, but his sons did not.

The Thousand Sons were the smallest legion by a pretty signifigant margin. They number ten thousand. Most other legions number in the hundred thousands. Though yeah, man for man, no other Astartes Legion matches the Thousand Sons. They are basically Grey Knights before Grey Knights.

Also, yeah it is described. Their psychic powers backlash on them throughout the fight, due to Tzeentch ****ery.

Also Russ isn't an ignorant savage, just a savage. The ignorance is debatable depending on where you stand on the absolute corrupting force of chaos. Russ just happened to be on the other side of the argument which by default makes him come off as rather barbaric because it is counter psychic evolution/warp-study in deference to the safety of non-psychic/nonwarp habits. Personally felt Magnus was right about 90% of his shit but the missing 10% was the more important bit long term, being that chaos is in the long term an absolute force of corruption so long as the chaos gods exist.

Magnus also was definitely not the most independently powerful of the Primarchs. All gear included and personal effects, I'd actually have to argue that Vulcan was the best. His tech advantage would negate most if not all natural advantages the other primarchs had. On top of that Vulkan was probably the most physically dominating in terms of raw strength except maybe Angron.

Originally posted by Uriel005
On top of that Vulkan was probably the most physically dominating in terms of raw strength except maybe Angron.

Actually, Vulkan is stated to be physically stronger then everyone except Ferrus, who is pretty much his equal.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Yes he is the most powerful psyker of the primarchs but I don't think there's enough definitive proof to say strongest under the Emperor. The definitive proof would have been if he could survive the Golden Throne as the Emperor thought he could but at the same time he thought the same of Malcador former head of the Officio Assassinorium and ridiculous baddass but that burned him out. But even if so I'd say the Apex Twins are superior psykers by far. They kinda just rampage around wrecking shit without any real plans.

The Emperor generally knows what he is talking about concerning technology he invented and the Warp, the Golden Throne was built with the intention of Magnus powering it, so yes, we can assume that Magnus could have powered it.

Malcador isn't nearly on Magnus's level. Malcador was powerless before Lorgar, a Primarch both physically and psychically not on Magnus's level. Despite this, Lorgar could telepathically control other Primarchs, something Malcador has never shown to do. Magnus proceeded to telepathically dominate Lorgar.

The Apex Twins? They are powerful Alpha Plus psykers, but Magnus single-handedly destroys Titans larger than Warlords, he is more powerful than any of Tzeentch's other servants, greater than the greatest Greater Daemons. With a gesture, after becoming a Daemon Primarch, he dispelled the Rubric, a spell that was destroying the surface of the Planet of the Sorcerers. Even before becoming a Daemon, he could tear apart the surface of Prospero and tear apart the boundaries between the Materium and the Immaterium.

No other psyker has shown to be on Magnus's level, IMHO. Except his father, of course.

Also Russ isn't an ignorant savage, just a savage. The ignorance is debatable depending on where you stand on the absolute corrupting force of chaos. Russ just happened to be on the other side of the argument which by default makes him come off as rather barbaric because it is counter psychic evolution/warp-study in deference to the safety of non-psychic/nonwarp habits. Personally felt Magnus was right about 90% of his shit but the missing 10% was the more important bit long term, being that chaos is in the long term an absolute force of corruption so long as the chaos gods exist.

Magnus also was definitely not the most independently powerful of the Primarchs. All gear included and personal effects, I'd actually have to argue that Vulcan was the best. His tech advantage would negate most if not all natural advantages the other primarchs had. On top of that Vulkan was probably the most physically dominating in terms of raw strength except maybe Angron.

Leman Russ: My Rune Priests derive their powers from the natural life and death cycles of Fenris, not the Warp, **** no.

Ignorance.

He also constantly assumed that Magnus was trying to infiltrate, spy on, and sabotage his legion, despite Magnus not giving a single shit about Russ or his legion of lap dogs.

Vulkan? Vulkan's technology wasn't actually by any means far more advanced than the other Primarchs. Ferrus Manus and Fulgrim are explicitly rival craftsmen, for example, and in terms of raw technical knowledge Perturabo was second to none among the Primarchs, able to match the highest ranked Magos on a variety of technical topics, ranging from weaponry to Warp Drives or whatever.

One thing you are right about though is that in terms of raw physical strength, Vulkan was mighty. He and Ferrus Manus are explicitly stated to be the physically strongest Primarchs.

But Magnus is not so far below in strength, and is a better fighter (Vulkan is explicitly noted to not be much of a fighter by Primarch standards in terms of skill, whereas Magnus held his own against Leman Russ), and Magnus is of course the most powerful psyker of the Primarchs. Honestly I can name a few Primarchs that are probably above Vulkan in combat, Lorgar, Horus, Leman Russ, Angron, Sanguinius, perhaps Corax, the Lion, and Konrad Curze, probably Fulgrim, etc.