I barely discovered this page today, so I haven't been following the arguments here regarding the Zimmerman trial. I also did not follow the case, so no one expect a debate from me. I'm just going to state my opinion based on what I know and what I've heard.
In the state of Arizona, you can defend yourself if a person approaches you in a threatening manner. However, once you get the person on the ground and you continue to attack, then you can no longer claim self defense, which I think is stupid, because when you feel threatened by someone, you tend to get mad and sometimes snap, and by this point, you are no longer able to think rationally, and you can still feel threatened, as you wouldn't want the person to get back up to attack you or gain the upper hand in the fight. Regarding Martin's attack on Zimmerman, well Martin is no longer here to claim that his initial attack was in self defense, but in my opinion, I believe that his attack on Zimmerman was in self defense. He was walking a public street while it was dark out side, and was then pursued/followed by a stranger, who is bigger than him, and then approached by him in what likely may have been in an annoyed manner (I say annoyed manner because Zimmerman's call to 911 stating "why these ****ing punks get to get away with everything," seems to suggest he was very much annoyed). That in my opinion, is enough to feel threatened by someone, especially in the world we live in today. In fact, I can't think of any good reason why Martin shouldn't have felt threatened by Zimmerman, and I've yet to hear anyone give me a good reason he shouldn't have either.
TBH, I don't believe Zimmerman originally intended to kill Martin, but I do believe he got out of his car knowing that a conflict would have stirred up between him and Martin. First of all, why would he get out of his car after authorities directly told him not to? Second of all, why would he pursue and follow a stranger he didn't even know? Surely Zimmerman has common sense, and knows better than to follow someone, and not expect that the person would not have found him [Zimmerman] as being suspicious. Also, if Zimmerman truly thought that Martin looked suspicious, then surely he would have known that pursuing someone who is up to no good, would have led into a conflict. So with all that said, while I do not believe Zimmerman initially planned on killing Martin, I do believe he is responsible for the events that led to his death: he disobeyed authorities and decided to take matters in his own hands, knowing that there may have been a conflict between them two, but couldn't handle what he started, so he ended up killing Martin.
Again, I can't think of one good reason why Martin should not have felt threatened by a strange big man, who is following him and approaches him in what was most likely in an annoyed/pissed off manner. If someone approaches you in a threatening way, then I think you should have a right to defend yourself. Even if Zimmerman didn't attack first, Martin didn't know if he was, and he shouldn't have to wait until he is attacked first. That's like saying a woman shouldn't pepper-spray a guy in the eyes until he attacks her first. By then it might be too late. And as for Zimmerman, I can't think of any good reason why he would get out of his car and pursue someone who he claimed to look suspicious after authorities told him not to. But my opinion can change, and it rests on these two questions if anyone cares to answer. First question, what good reason did Zimmerman have to get out of his car and pursue and follow a kid he didn't even know after authorities directly told him not to? Second question, can anyone tell me one good reason as to why Martin should not have felt threatened by a stranger who is bigger than him, and who then pursues and approaches him at night in what may have been in an annoyed manner?
Tragedy all around. TM shouldn't have died that night.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Regarding Martin's attack on Zimmerman, well Martin is no longer here to claim that his initial attack was in self defense, but in my opinion, I believe that his attack on Zimmerman was in self defense. He was walking a public street while it was dark out side, and was then pursued/followed by a stranger, who is bigger than him, and then approached by him in what likely may have been in an annoyed manner (I say annoyed manner because Zimmerman's call to 911 stating "why these ****ing punks get to get away with everything," seems to suggest he was very much annoyed). That in my opinion, is enough to feel threatened by someone, especially in the world we live in today. In fact, I can't think of any good reason why Martin shouldn't have felt threatened by Zimmerman, and I've yet to hear anyone give me a good reason he shouldn't have either.
Not sure If I agree. According to witness testimony, TM had time to get home but went back and initiated the altercation (TM attacked first). TM was bigger than GZ (killer). According to the lead investigator, a lot of crooks use rainy, dark days to commit crimes which the community TM was at had a recent rash of break ins. They both couldve handled the situation better. Specially Zimmerman.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
TBH, I don't believe Zimmerman originally intended to kill Martin, but I do believe he got out of his car knowing that a conflict would have stirred up between him and Martin. First of all, why would he get out of his car after authorities directly told him not to? Second of all, why would he pursue and follow a stranger he didn't even know? Surely Zimmerman has common sense, and knows better than to follow someone, and not expect that the person would not have found him [Zimmerman] as being suspicious. Also, if Zimmerman truly thought that Martin looked suspicious, then surely he would have known that pursuing someone who is up to no good, would have led into a conflict. So with all that said, while I do not believe Zimmerman initially planned on killing Martin, I do believe he is responsible for the events that led to his death: he disobeyed authorities and decided to take matters in his own hands, knowing that there may have been a conflict between them two, but couldn't handle what he started, so he ended up killing Martin.
I agree with you but iirc, the dispatcher ask him for an address and asked him what was TM doing. This was contradictory of his initial request not to follow him. The lead investigator agreed with that assesment when the lawyers brought it up. As to why he followed, he was the nitgh watchman and combined that with the frustration of the recent crimes maybe felt he needed to do more. He should have stayed in the car.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
First question, what good reason did Zimmerman have to get out of his car and pursue and follow a kid he didn't even know after authorities directly told him not to? Second question, can anyone tell me one good reason as to why Martin should not have felt threatened by a stranger who is bigger than him, and who then pursues and approaches him at night in what may have been in an annoyed manner?
As a night watchman he felt it was his job. It was adark night and TM being close to 6' and was wearing a hoodie, I doubt GZ knew he was a teenager (he wasn't a kid).
Per the "star" witness testimony, he sounded more annoyed than threatened. I agree that GZ followed but didn't approach, by his multiple testimonies, they ran into each other and that's when everything started. The lead investigator claimed that his testimonies were always consistent even when he used all his tricks to try to get him in a lie.
I'm not saying GZ is innocent but per Florida law they got the right verdict. What bothers me is since most people didn't got the verdict they wanted, everyone that does not see it their way is a racist, specially the jury.
IMO, the blame falls on the prosecution. They did a horrendous job. They overreached with the charges. If they had gone for other charges I think he would have been found guilty. The juror said that under Florida law they couldn't find him guilty, even if they wanted to.
I'm not saying GZ is innocent but per Florida law they got the right verdict. What bothers me is since most people didn't got the verdict they wanted, everyone that does not see it their way is a racist, specially the jury.
Originally posted by focus4chumps
i love it when white people get together on the internet and decide that racism no longer exists, so black people should stfu and stop complaining like they always do.
Hispanic here, getting together with whites and blacks to decide that racism is over. You can thank me later!
Seriously though racism will never be over until one culture and one race is all that exists. disparate groups are always going to compete against each other for resources and biologically your race is the most important group you belong to.
The most we can hope for is a non violent bargaining between groups, which is pretty much what we have now. It doesn't help when people trump up non race issues and make them into race issues. It's creating division that doesn't have to exist within already strained relations.
Originally posted by focus4chumps
i love it when white people get together on the internet and decide that racism no longer exists, so black people should stfu and stop complaining like they always do.
I love it when emotional kids get on the internet and declare everything that doesn't agree with their delicate sensibilities, racism.
Originally posted by focus4chumps
i love it when white people get together on the internet and decide that racism no longer exists, so black people should stfu and stop complaining like they always do.
Hispanic here. While I don't doubt racism still exist, this whole case had nothing to do with racism. It became a racist case when Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton got involved. It's so easy to wave the race card.
Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Hispanic here. While I don't doubt racism still exist, this whole case had nothing to do with racism. It became a racist case when Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton got involved. It's so easy to wave the race card.
The race card is always waived around as a last gasp rationalization for the unintelligent.