Originally posted by CortSether
Really though, I think FP still takes this handily. It is admittedly speculation on my part when I say this, but I believe Sise-Neg as Genesis to be even above the Living Tribunal. Why? Based on Frank Brunner's comments about Sise-Neg (Brunner was the artist for Steve Englehart for a long stretch, including the Sise-Neg arc). Here's what he has to say:[B] COMIC URBAN LEGEND:
Frank Brunner and Steve Englehart faked a fan letter to themselves.STATUS: True
In an interview in Comic Book Artist #6, Frank Brunner shared an interesting story about how he and Steve Englehart managed to wriggle their way out of a small controversy over a storyline in their Doctor Strange series in Marvel Premiere involving Sise-neg/Genesis, which basically revolved around Dr. Strange following “God” along as he creates the universe
Brunner:We had just completed Marvel Premiere #14-well, I had just completed the pencils, most of the art, but for some reason or another, nobody took notice of what we were doing. When the book came out, Stan finally got a hold of it, and I don’t know, somebody pointed it out, or he read it, and he wrote us a letter saying, “We can’t do God. You’re going to have to print in the letters column a retraction saying this is not ‘the’ God, this is just a god.” Steve and I said, “Oh, come on! This is the whole point of the story! If we did that retraction of God, this is meaningless!” So, Steve happened to be on his way to Texas for something, this is when we were in California, and we cooked up this plot-we wrote a letter from a Reverend Billingsley in Texas, a fictional person, saying that one of the children in his parish brought him the comic book, and he was astounded and thrilled by it, and he said, “Wow, this is the best comic book I’ve ever read.” And we signed it “Reverend so-and-so, Austin Texas”-and when Steve was in Texas, he mailed the letter so it had the proper postmark. Then, we got a phone call from Roy, and he said, “Hey, about that retraction, I’m going to send you a letter, and instead of the retraction, I want you to print this letter.” And it was our letter! We printed our letter!
Source: http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2005/12/22/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-30/
Based on this, Steve Englehart envisioned Sise-Neg at the end of his journey becoming the supreme being within MU. The events in the story arc parallel Sise-Neg with the biblical God, such as when he destroys the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and incinerates its citizens in a rain of fire, as well as creating a small paradise from the two primitive humans that he saved from Shuma-Gorath. And Brunner's comments refute anyone who tries to assert that Sise-Neg merely became a god instead of God (within MU, not TOAA level of course). [/B]
He re-created all of Marvel from the pre-Big Bang point.
Originally posted by Golgo13
bump! for Operator.
Yeah, I get a kick out of reading his nonsense too.
Originally posted by operator616
Sise-Neg is universal, Synnar is multiversal.Synnar stomps.
And 2+2=5
Originally posted by Mr Master
👆 ... Genesis, was "God" when he reached his pinnacle.He re-created all of Marvel from the pre-Big Bang point.
👆
Originally posted by CortSether
Yeah, I get a kick out of reading his nonsense too.And 2+2=5
You seem mad.
Is that because you can't find any proof whatsoever that Sise-Neg recreated anything more than a universe, no matter how hard you try? ...that's gotta hurt.
I think you should go try Board Walker's enlightenment to decrease your hatred toward anyone who doesn't wank the shit out of your beloved Sise-Neg and Shuma.
Originally posted by operator616
You seem mad.Is that because you can't find any proof whatsoever that Sise-Neg recreated anything more than a universe, no matter how hard you try? ...that's gotta hurt.
I think you should go try Board Walker's enlightenment to decrease your hatred toward anyone who doesn't wank the shit out of your beloved Sise-Neg and Shuma.
Originally posted by operator616
You seem mad.Is that because you can't find any proof whatsoever that Sise-Neg recreated anything more than a universe, no matter how hard you try? ...that's gotta hurt.
I think you should go try Board Walker's enlightenment to decrease your hatred toward anyone who doesn't wank the shit out of your beloved Sise-Neg and Shuma.
So, ALL of Marvel just means main 616 universe?
Originally posted by Golgo13
So, ALL of Marvel just means main 616 universe?
Sise-Neg never recreated all of marvel because even in the 70s Marvel was a multiverse. On-panel and in all the handbooks it's outright stated that Sise-Neg re-created a single universe.
The opposing arguments say that Sise-Neg re-created all universes based on him re-creating all eras/time-periods from the beginning of the big bang because in some instances past/future time-periods are regarded as actual alternate realities. While failing to take into consideration that past/future periods in other times are...just that: past/future time period of the 616-reality. And considering that the story itself never mentioned anything about different time period equating actually alternate realities id think it's safe to say that he just re-created a single universe (mind you, that's on top of on panel and bio supporting it). Hell, the whole concept of "past/future periods = alternate realities" weren't even that popular back in the mid-70s.
But whatever it takes to hype the shit out of Sise-Neg, i guess.
I mean, it's on panel, it's in the handbooks, and the story itself doesn't support this "theory"...at all.
Read this thread (which you created btw) and see for yourself:
Originally posted by Marvel_Mystic
Operator sounds like a bitter DC fanboy. In most of his posts he hypes DC characters and downplays Marvel character feats.
Something tells me that Cortsether and Marvel_Mystic appearing at the same time, being fans of the same characters, and their hatred toward me isn't a coincidence.
But maybe that's just me, right?
I would like you try to challenge me in a debate and see who has the evidence on his side. Otherwise, you can shut up.
Originally posted by Golgo13
He comes through with evidence, though.
And ignores others. People can argue all they want about whether or not Sise-Neg at the end recreated one universe of many or all of Marvel when he recreated the very first creation, but in the story we clearly see that all space and time were held by Sise-Neg (space/time = Eternity/Infinity established as multiversal in nature) as well as all extant (existing) power within him. We previously see that he was absorbing from voids/universes outside the one he was in (Strange and Mordo recognize this when they are getting weaker in some timeless void) as well, so whether or not Sise-Neg decided to recreate one or all universes at the end is irrelevant. He clearly had possession of power beyond universal in scope.
Plus we have one of the authors of the story insisting that in their story, Sise-Neg became the supreme being above everybody else. That means no other Marvel character was more powerful than him, even confirmed multiversal powers. You can't be SUPREME if somebody else is more powerful than you. And because they wanted Sise-Neg to mirror the biblical God at the end, it's safe to say that he was top dog.
Originally posted by operator616
Something tells me that Cortsether and Marvel_Mystic appearing at the same time, being fans of the same characters, and their hatred toward me isn't a coincidence.But maybe that's just me, right?
I would like you try to challenge me in a debate and see who has the evidence on his side. Otherwise, you can shut up.
Goosfraba.
Say it with me now.
Goooosfraaaaba.
Originally posted by Marvel_Mystic
And ignores others. People can argue all they want about whether or not Sise-Neg at the end recreated one universe of many or all of Marvel when he recreated the very first creation, but in the story we clearly see that all space and time were held by Sise-Neg (space/time = Eternity/Infinity established as multiversal in nature) as well as all extant (existing) power within him. We previously see that he was absorbing from voids/universes outside the one he was in (Strange and Mordo recognize this when they are getting weaker in some timeless void) as well, so whether or not Sise-Neg decided to recreate one or all universes at the end is irrelevant. He clearly had possession of power beyond universal in scope.Plus we have one of the authors of the story insisting that in their story, Sise-Neg became the supreme being above everybody else. That means no other Marvel character was more powerful than him, even confirmed multiversal powers. You can't be SUPREME if somebody else is more powerful than you. And because they wanted Sise-Neg to mirror the biblical God at the end, it's safe to say that he was top dog.
But it's not like he always votes for DC. He votes both ways. He's one of the most unbiased people on this board.
Originally posted by Marvel_MysticHe clearly had possession of power beyond universal in scope.
Plus we have one of the authors of the story insisting that in their story,
Sise-Neg became the supreme being above everybody else.Sise-Neg to mirror the biblical God at the end
"I am going to become GOD, the One, the All Powerful!
And once I become GOD, the Universe and beyond shall be mine"
^ Referencing a hyperbole isn't helping any arguments. On-panel facts are all that matters. And Sise-Neg used all his powers to re-create a single universe. Not to mention a bio establishes his universal-level of power and nothing beyond it.
I posted the bio because it states the obvious in a direct way. On-panel you're not going to get a direct statement saying that Sise-Neg has the power of a single universe. But the story makes it clear in an indirect way. Sise-Neg's power recreated a single universe in Marvel, and that's all. He possessed the power of all time/space in a single universe.
Your on panel evidence is a mere statement which was never proven to be true (where exactly did Sise-Neg display more than universal power again?)
