Morgan Freeman: "I'm marrying my step-grandduaghter, b!tches!"

Started by inimalist10 pages

Originally posted by dadudemon
Google searched...first result:

"African women have a shorter gestation period, produce more multiple births, have fewer complications giving birth (due to fetus’ smaller head size and elongated skull), and African children become sexually mature at an earlier age and thereafter are considerably more sexually active than other races."

http://erectuswalksamongst.us/Chap11.html

just to put this upfront: I'm not arguing the conclusion that black children mature faster than whites, I know nothing of the subject and it would be easy to ascribe clear sociological reasons for such. I don't think it is genetic by any means, if it is true at all, but whatever.

However, this page is nonsense. Take some time with the references. The citations look annotated, but when you look up the stuff in the annotations, the work is highly selective, often just clipping single lines with no context from works of only marginal relation to the topic.

The one, specifically, that got me was table 11-3, though from how it reads, I wouldn't be surprised if this is an exemplar for the quality of intellectual rigor for the page.

Initially, the source of the table is suspicious. It comes from a book, written in 1978, Developmental Psychology of the Black Child, illustrious enough to earn a place on the Awful Library Books blog, though virtually no mention in academia, save what appears to be an unfavorable review two years after its publication. Erectus Walks Among Us mentions that the author, Dr. Amon N Wilson, was attempting to show the superiority of black children, introducing an obvious bias, which I think is made all the more apparent with the titles and summaries of the books he has authored on the link I just provided.

Further, looking at the annotation for this citation (number 11 on the EWAU page), we see Wilson's book followed by a statement about the maturation of African babies and something about "r" growth patterns. Of the 3 citations, 2 are books, one by Micheal Levin, titled "Why Race Matters", that deals specifically with why political policies need to be racialized, the other by William Gayley Simpson, titled "Which Way Western Man", published by National Vangard, the publishing company of the National Alliance, a white supremacist/fascist organization, and is essentially a treatise on why White Christian Man is the best and how we are losing him to multicultural political correctness. The last is a Nature study from 1969 that is neither about development or African children. Additionally, the work was only ever part of the "Letters" section of Nature, and I am unable to find where it was later published in full peer-review form. Further, in general, the only place where citations of this work appear is in the writings of individuals like J Philippe Rushton, whose views are in the massive minority in the scientific community and who has also been known to say things about needing to preserve Christian European society, and has suggested the "Muslim Problem" [sic] is not just cultural, but genetic.

The next line goes on to directly quote a study by David Satcher, though oddly there is no link to the title or publication info of the paper. Though it may just be an oversight, it might also be due to the fact the paper is titled "If We Were Equal", and makes the claim that differences in mortality rates are liked to socio-economic issues, which is the opposite of how the site attempts to present the data. The following citation is similar, as the study in question claims that in early stages of life, blacks and whites claim identical growth patterns, and only show differences later in life, that could easily be attributable to socio-economic issues:

Most research on the aging process in the skeleton has not considered or elaborated differences that may exist between the races. Thus, techniques developed for the estimation of age assume that the racial background of the standards is compatible with the specimens to be assessed. However, racial differences in areas such as skeletal growth and bone density have been reported, along with specific variations in the aging process, in the ribs of disparate populations. The present investigation examines metamorphosis in the sternal ribs of American blacks (N = 53 males, N = 20 females), and tests the application of age estimation standards developed by the authors from a white population. All specimens were obtained from medical examiner's cases of known age, sex, and race. Although the sample was limited in both quantity and age range, analysis of the data revealed racial differences in both rate and pattern of metamorphosis. Statistical analysis showed that the calculated mean age per phase for black ribs was nearly identical to whites in Phases 1 through 4 or until the mean age of 28 years. By the early 30s, differences in morphology and their chronological association with the aging process became apparent and increased with age in both sexes. Blacks were consistently overaged from 3 to 10 years in Phases 5 through 7. Therefore, it was concluded that biological differences between these populations do exist and can affect age estimation from the rib. Social factors may also be involved, but they cannot be demonstrated from the available data. While the degree of interracial variation does not require completely new standards, the authors have suggested specific modifications of the white standards for use on black specimens.

Basically, EWAU are using this to suggest that black babies mature faster than whites, though that is the exact opposite of what was found in the study.

We can take this even further, however. Even though it is clear there are issues with chart 11-3, EWAU claims the data is valid (though we get no information about how it was collected), they claim it reflects a faster maturation of the brain. This claim is unsupported. Additionally, they go on to cite Shaw et al. (2006) as suggesting that faster maturation of the brain was associated with lower overall IQ.

However, what they don't talk about is what matures. Shaw found that it was cortical thickness in the lateral and medial prefrontal cortex that related to IQ, not just "brain maturity" in general. In fact, all of the measures presented in table 11-3, if you trust them anyways, are with regard to visuo-motor, motor control or spatial navigation. These tasks are more associated with posterior frontal, posterior parietal, hippocampul, cerebellar or collicular activation. No data that I am aware of links visuo-motor development to IQ or the cortical thickness of the medial or lateral prefrontal areas, and no measure of cortical-thickness-by-race was performed. Again, this shows a clear cherry picking of evidence.

I could go on, citation 12 is equally problematic (cites Rushton himself along with studies from nearly 150 years ago), and I assume this is emblematic of the rest of the references. Let me emphasize, I didn't pick #11 because it was overly terrible, but rather, chart 11-3 was the first thing that jumped out at me, and in looking into it, found how terrible this was. Not that this invalidates your argument, but I would try to not use this as a reference in the future. In terms of intellectual honesty, it sits roughly in the same place as a highschool essay about a literary work written after only skimming the Crib's notes.

I may have misrepresented Simpson... He is either all about white christianity, or he is so racist that he believes christianity to be a thing the Jews forced upon white people to enslave them.

tbh, I don't care to read enough hate to get it right

its ok. he didnt read it either.

Originally posted by inimalist
Take some time with the references.

No thank you. I do not want to do that. I figure a single citing from a questionable source was more than enough to persuade Omega Vision to seek out more information: not take my word for it especially since I used a white supremacist website (that should be a red flag to anyone).

I read that page a total of 10 seconds and that is about as long as it took for me to copy and paste. 🙂

Edit - Additionally, it seemed Omega Vision's original question was one of "that's racist...and I'm skeptical". I was more than happy to oblige with something from a racist website to confirm his suspicions. It was for his benefit and lulz.

Instead, it turned into a troll-fest from P...Mr. Chumps.

More on that subject, though: I do not think it is entirely environmental. I personally hold that some of it is genetic. I do not have any studies other than the obvious ones. But those do not show that "blacks" sexually mature faster than other races due to a genetic cause...just that they sexually mature faster.

Originally posted by inimalist
In terms of intellectual honesty, it sits roughly in the same place as a highschool essay about a literary work written after only skimming the Crib's notes.

No, it's a racist website that cherry-picks all it's "facts" for the sole purpose of making whites look better than blacks.

Also, I read somewhere else that the maturing of Sub-Sarahan Africans makes them MORE intelligent at a younger age: the direct opposite of what the site claims.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
its ok. he didnt read it either.

You're correct: I only "ctrl+f" for the information I wanted. 🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
I figure a single citing from a questionable source was more than enough to persuade Omega Vision to seek out more information: not take my word for it especially since I used a white supremacist website (that should be a red flag to anyone).

ah there, you see? he posted a link to a racist site as a source on purpose...to instruct others on the value of researching sources.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
ah there, you see? he posted a link to a racist site as a source [b]on purpose...[/B]

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
to instruct others on the value of researching sources.

No, this is not correct.

It was to spur discussion and also confirm OV's implied suspicions. The conversation would have gone much more quickly and less drama-ish if you were not around, tbh. You really do shit up every conversation you are in with your smug attitude and trolling. But you knew that...because you told me that off the boards.

Edit - the derp smilie is not working.

Well, derpy derpy do.

see, if i was confronted with the choice of retracting a ridiculous post or spending all day making a wild ass of myself, i might choose the former and just say "oops i should have looked into that more".

Originally posted by focus4chumps
see, if i was confronted with the choice of retracting a ridiculous post or spending all day making a wild ass of myself, i might choose the former and just say "oops i should have looked into that more".

No, I already addressed that avenue, as well: just because it showed up on a bias website, does not mean it was wrong. It turns out that what I had said was not wrong. 🙂 I cherry-picked what information I wanted from that site, as well: obviously, I am not going to support the "IQ" bullshit agenda they were trying to push. There are many other problems on that website and inimalist pointed out a few.

But, those were not the items of interest, now were they? 🙂

See, no matter which angle you approach this topic from, you still come off as a whiner looking for something to troll.

I am off of work, today, playing video games. Kids are at school. Wife is entertaining her parents at her sister's house. Nothing to do but play Saints Row the Third and allow a troll to troll me (it is still entertaining). Go over to GS Chat: you can troll me there, too.

no, dadudemon. cool stories aside, it all went down like this:

1-you asserted a questionable and theoretical claim, and called it a fact.

2-when called on it you ran to google and searched, posting the first link you found as proof, without even reading it.

3-when you were called out on that, you finally found a reputable study to source, and yet even the authors of that study pointed out that there was bias in the data collected.

4-you remain incorrect on your asserted claim.
that claim, that its common medical knowledge that black girls hit puberty on average sooner than white girls.

you know what you did. just retract the statement. maybe reword it. "studies suggest that...etc". its an easy mistake to make. just admit it. i wont gloat. i might even have a shred of respect for you for showing a glimmer of integrity, finally.

if not, i assure you that you look ridiculous in front of everyone right now.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
no, dadudemon. cool stories aside, it all went down like this:

1-you asserted a questionable and theoretical claim, and called it fact.

2-when called on it you ran to google and searched, posting the first link you found as proof, without even reading it.

3-when you were called out on that, you finally found a reputable study to source, and yet even the authors of that study pointed out that there was bias in the data collected.

4-you remain incorrect on your asserted claim.
that claim, that its common medical knowledge that black girls hit puberty on average sooner than white girls.

No, Chumps, it went down like this:

1. I pointed out out Sub-Sarahan Africans sexually mature, faster, compared to other races.

2. Omega wanted clarification because I think he thought it was racist.

3. I cited a racist source specifically for HIS lulz (not for you to troll the thread).

4. You shit yourself because you thought "I got him, this time! TROLL TIEM!"

5. You shit yourself a second time when you realized I wasn't wrong.

6. You trolled harder and harder only to be routed each attempt.

7. You rage quit when you discovered that you were wrong on all fronts and you even failed to wiggle out of being wrong by harping on the disclaimer as some sort of trump card.

8. You're still wrong and fuming. Looking for more reasons to try and "get me" so you can feel some sort of minor victory.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
its the nature of a child to repeatedly lie until they manage to convince themselves of the lie, is it not?

I am not into over-the-counter pop-psychology. But, yes, you could be right so I suggest you stop trying to convince yourself of your lies.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you know what you did. just retract the statement. maybe reword it. "studies suggest that...etc". its an easy mistake to make. just admit it. i wont gloat. i might even have a shred of respect for you for showing a glimmer of integrity, finally.

if not, i assure you that you look ridiculous in front of everyone right now.

Nice edit.

No, you know what you did. I do not need any "shred of integrity" from you. Nor do I need your respect. However, you do need mine (I do not know why).

It was not a mistake nor is it an easy one to make when I tried to find it.

I assure you, I do not look ridiculous in the slightest. This is also an old MO of yours: claim the other looks stupid/ridiculous in front of others in hope of getting a bandwagon going.

I can assure you: you look ridiculous with your failed troll attempts and your pathetic attempt at trying to be smug. It is not working. The part about "not have your coffee yet?" was especially lulz worthy. Elementary school students could probably do better. An old poster that used to frequent KMC who went by PVS was really good at the one-line zingers. If he were around, he might have delivered some hilarity.

apologies again for the late edit. i thought the child psychology comment was too harsh, so i deleted it. anyway, since you missed it:

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you know what you did. just retract the statement. maybe reword it. "studies suggest that...etc". its an easy mistake to make. just admit it. i wont gloat. i might even have a shred of respect for you for showing a glimmer of integrity, finally.

if not, i assure you that you look ridiculous in front of everyone right now.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
apologies again for the late edit. i thought the child psychology comment was too harsh, so i deleted it. anyway, since you missed it:

I'm just too fast for you: already addressed your fail, here, as well.

What else do you have?

Hey, Chumps:

Blacks sexually mature faster than whites, on average.

Blacks get pregnant sooner than whites, on average.

Blacks have more sexual partners before 18, on average.

Blacks have more STDs than any other race demographic, on average.

Come at me. 🙂

"one study suggests that blacks sexually mature faster than whites, on average. *insert link to NON-white supremacist site*"

this works fine. illustrates that its not factual. its fine.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Blacks sexually mature faster than whites, on average.

Blacks get pregnant sooner than whites, on average.

Blacks have more sexual partners before 18, on average.

Blacks have more STDs than any other race demographic, on average.

Come at me. 🙂

:edit: interesting claims you added. my curiosity on the topic is piqued. now please provide your sources? not that im suggesting they are wrong. only that these are bold and controversial assertions. when dropping bombs like that you should be ready to back it up.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
1-you asserted a questionable and theoretical claim, and called it a fact.

So, there is this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16492435

Pubertal correlates in black and white girls

OBJECTIVES:

Since pubertal maturation is an important covariate in studies that evaluate physical and social changes that occur during the teen years, we examined pubertal parameters in a group of US girls.

STUDY DESIGN:

Black and white girls recruited at age 9 were followed annually for 10 years. Preece-Baines model 1 was used to estimate tempo and growth parameters. The temporal trend between age of menarche and onset of puberty was calculated.

RESULTS:

The study included 615 (77.2% prepubertal) white and 541 (49.4% prepubertal) black participants. Mean onset of puberty was 10.2 and 9.6 years in white and black girls, respectively, menarche was 12.6 and 12.0, achievement of Tanner growth stage 5 was 14.3 and 13.6, and achievement of adult height was 17.1 and 16.5 years. The Pearson's correlation coefficient between menarche and onset of puberty was .37.

CONCLUSIONS:

Menarche is often used as a marker for onset of puberty and for timing of puberty. Data gathered over the past 20 years suggest only moderate correlation between menarche and onset of puberty (.37-.38), which has decreased significantly during the last 50 years. This suggests the existence of both similar and unique factors that impact the age at onset of puberty and age at menarche.

and this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12509562

Age at menarche and racial comparisons in US girls

BACKGROUND:

Concern regarding change in the onset of sexual maturation of US girls has increased the need for current information on age at menarche from a national sample. Previous reports have been sparse and interpretation has been limited because of the racial composition and ages of the samples.

OBJECTIVE:

The objectives of this study were to estimate the distribution of age at menarche for all US girls and for non-Hispanic white, black, and Mexican American girls in the Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey and to test for racial differences.

DESIGN:

Menstrual status data were collected from 2510 girls aged 8.0 to 20.0 years. The Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey followed a complex, stratified, multistage probability cluster design. SUDAAN was used to calculate proportions of girls reaching menarche at an age. Ages at menarche were estimated by probit analysis at the ages at which 10%, 25%, 50%, 75%, and 90% of the girls attained menarche.

RESULTS:

Less than 10% of US girls start to menstruate before 11 years, and 90% of all US girls are menstruating by 13.75 years of age, with a median age of 12.43 years. This age at menarche is not significantly different (0.34 years earlier) than that reported for US girls in 1973. Age at menarche for non-Hispanic black girls was significantly earlier than that of white girls at 10%, 25%, and 50% of those who had attained menarche, whereas Mexican American girls were only significantly earlier than the white girls at 25%.

CONCLUSION:

Overall, US girls are not gaining reproductive potential earlier than in the past. The age at menarche of non-Hispanic black girls is significantly earlier than that of non-Hispanic white and Mexican American girls.

Though, this study suggests the difference may be environmental, as once "covariates" were removed from the statistical analysis (do you know regression models?) there was no difference between race and ouberty onset:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20484344

Pubertal timing and smoking initiation in adolescent females: differences by race

INTRODUCTION:

The purpose of this study was to examine whether (a) early pubertal timing effects on smoking onset existed for both White and Black girls and (b) whether the association between pubertal timing and smoking onset was moderated by race.

METHODS:

Participants included 264 girls (14.9 +/- 2.2 years, 164 White, and 100 Black) at the baseline report of a longitudinal study of whom 153 reported smoking and age at first cigarette.

RESULTS:

Kaplan-Meier analysis stratified by racial group showed a significant difference between the pubertal timing groups for Black girls only. After accounting for covariates using Cox regression, there was no significant interaction between pubertal timing and racial group. There was a main effect of pubertal timing indicating that late maturers were at significantly lower risk for smoking initiation compared with the early and on-time groups, but the early and on-time groups were not significantly different from each other.

DISCUSSION:

Results point to equal risk of early smoking onset for early and on-time maturers of both racial groups, indicating the need for smoking prevention in early adolescence for both White and Black females.

The covariates in this case being:

socioeconomic status [SES], age, friend smoking, and parental smoking

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2893293/?tool=pubmed

From what I can find on pubmed, it seems to be an accepted fact, though I doubt most researchers would claim it was genetic (and DDM has only made a soft genetic argument anyways).

I was certainly unable to find anyone questioning or providing evidence against the idea, though I do recommend you look through what Pubmed might have.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
"one study suggests that blacks sexually mature faster than whites, on average. *insert link to NON-white supremacist site*"

this works fine. illustrates that its not factual. its fine.

I never said "one study". I love your strawman tactics: so simplistic and textbook.

Also, the naughty site was not the one that conducted the study. Make sure you don't skew the facts. 🙂

And now you're just ignoring the study YOU brought up. Pretend it didn't happen, sir. Pretend it never took place. 😆

Originally posted by focus4chumps
:edit: interesting claims you added. my curiosity on the topic is piqued. now please provide your sources? not that im suggesting they are wrong. only that these are bold and controversial assertions. when dropping bombs like that you should be ready to back it up.

lol

Nope. I am not going to back any of it up with any studies or reports, anywhere.

Do you disagree with the information? If so, prove me wrong.

inb4 "burden of proof" whining.

I made claims. Do you think they are wrong? If so, prove that they are wrong by citing sources that contradict that information. That's if you actually care.

I am giving you ample opportunity to "own" me, and "prove how dumb" I am. Go ahead: do so if you want.

Now what? 🙂

Originally posted by focus4chumps
:edit: interesting claims you added. my curiosity on the topic is piqued. now please provide your sources? not that im suggesting they are wrong. only that these are bold and controversial assertions. when dropping bombs like that you should be ready to back it up.

afaik none of those are incorrect and aren't even really controversial...

It would be like saying black people go to jail more often than whites.

I think you might be conflating simple facts with value judgements

ddm, you only provided one valid study. (and a white supremacist site if you want that to count as 2). the authors of that study admitted a bias in the method of collecting data.

but no matter. inimalist has done your homework (out of pity?).

Originally posted by focus4chumps
inimalist has done your homework (out of pity?).

technically I did both of your homework, out of a sheer desire to actually have science brought up in a scientific discussion

Originally posted by focus4chumps
the authors of that study admitted a bias in the method of collecting data.

can you name a study where there are no biases in data selection?

how was it my homework to support or refute dadudemon's asserted claim? all i did was question his evidence.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
how was it my homework to support or refute dadudemon's asserted claim? all i did was question his evidence.

lol

without looking anything up for yourself

It took me 5 min on pubmed to find a reliable answer. Burden of proof or not, that shows a fairly impressive lack of willingness to verify what you think is right.

I mean, regardless of who should be proving a point, I tend to look things up so that I know what is true...

or can at least defend my position better than repeating "sampling bias" over and over