Who is the strongest Naruto character?

Originally posted by socool8520
When has Minato shown to get tired from teleporting? It could just as easily be said the other way since sharingan/rinnegan attacks are more taxing than regular attacks so that argument doesn't sound right to me. Also how did he have a hard time tagging him before? he found the opening and hit him with great success as I recall. He was also able to slap a seal on him as well. He can run until the oppurtunity presents itself. Tobi can't disappear for ever ther is a limit. The few seconds it takes to recover will be all the time he needs to catch a rasengan in the back. The fight could really go either way.

Never. Are you under the impression that he doesn't? And he had to try several times, admittedly fewer times than most. Too bad said opportunity will never present itself. With sharingan they can track all the tags Minato places on the ground and with Rinnegan they have the area covered. With Bijuu forms they're protected from basically all of Minato's attacks and unlike with Naruto, Tobi has no reason to hold back the Rinnegan powers. Tobi is familiar with what Minato can do, Minato is not going to be familiar with half the things Tobi can now do. Minato has no chance in this fight.

Originally posted by socool8520
Madara is a tough call just because of susano. If Minato can somehow seal away susano momentarily, he could have a chance. Other than that, without seeing anymore jutsus from Minato, this fight probably goes to Madara.

One Mokuton attack is really all Madara will need. And Susano'o for additional defense.

Originally posted by socool8520
I don't think it is arguable at all that Minato is the strongest hokage. What have the other hokage shown that makes you think otherwise? Hiruzen looks like the toughest challenge and I don't think he could keep up with the speed of Minato. haven't seen anything on the first so it's really hard to include him. Or the second Hokage for the matter. Tsunade would get pwned easily.

Hashirama would crush Minato. He has Tsunade's healing factor, which is greater than all of Minato's attacks. His AoE Mokuton will allow him to go in and out of the wood and spawn several clones that are indescribable from the original. Gamabunta? Pfft. Hashirama took on Madara and the Kyuubi. He'd nonchalantly snap that toad in two. And once again, he posses one Mokuton tech that would leave him done.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
With sharingan they can track all the tags Minato places on the ground...

No, they can't. Seals are not chakra, they are seals. Never was it shown that the Sharingan can track/find seals. It was for chakra, but not seals.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
and with Rinnegan they have the area covered.

No they don't, unless they use the six paths form. 😄

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
With Bijuu forms they're protected from basically all of Minato's attacks

No they aren't as Minato easily sliced through one of the Hachibi's arms.

It's the "sealing of" that Minato had problems with. He could not seal all of Kurama's power and had to cut it in half. Kurama is the exception since Kurama is as powerful as all the other biju, combined, in half chakra form.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
and unlike with Naruto, Tobi has no reason to hold back the Rinnegan powers.

That's incorrect, but trivial on my part for pointing it out.

Tobi already wasn't holding back against Naruto. Remember that post I posted a few days ago where Tobi got the vase with Gin and Kin stored inside? And then Tobi later remarked that he doesn't have to worry about killing Naruto during their fight?

Here's why that is trivial: Tobi still has to capture the Hachibi so he can't just start launching biju blasts.

Well...that was true until a few chapters ago when he did just that against Naruto. 😬

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Tobi is familiar with what Minato can do, Minato is not going to be familiar with half the things Tobi can now do. Minato has no chance in this fight.

I disagree. Minato seems to be one of he few people that can instantly figure things out before they are even used. Minato has "sight beyond sight" 😆

But, no, for real, why would we throw Minato up against Tobi without any knowledge of what Tobi's abilities are? I always assumed it would be all the knowledge Naruto has because Minato saw all the stuff Naruto did while inside his mind...er somptin. Regardless, I also thought Minato would be briefed just as much as Tobi would be. Unfair to brief one and not the other in a matchup, imo. Also, if you wanted to be fair, you could have neither party know of the other's abilities.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
One Mokuton attack is really all Madara will need. And Susano'o for additional defense.

I disagree. Nothing will save Madara except the Mirror Shield (not kidding, here).

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Hashirama would crush Minato. He has Tsunade's healing factor, which is greater than all of Minato's attacks. His AoE Mokuton will allow him to go in and out of the wood and spawn several clones that are indescribable from the original. Gamabunta? Pfft. Hashirama took on Madara and the Kyuubi. He'd nonchalantly snap that toad in two. And once again, he posses one Mokuton tech that would leave him done.

Hashirama would lose to Minato mostly because Minato >> Sarutobi and Sarutobi >>>>> Hashirama. But also because Hashirama would quickly run out of chakra against Minato.

Minato's porting would allow him to port away from any and all of Hashirama's attacks. Minato's speed would also allow him to deliver killing blows to Hashirama.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Never. Are you under the impression that he doesn't? And he had to try several times, admittedly fewer times than most. Too bad said opportunity will never present itself. With sharingan they can track all the tags Minato places on the ground and with Rinnegan they have the area covered. With Bijuu forms they're protected from basically all of Minato's attacks and unlike with Naruto, Tobi has no reason to hold back the Rinnegan powers. Tobi is familiar with what Minato can do, Minato is not going to be familiar with half the things Tobi can now do. Minato has no chance in this fight.

Hashirama would crush Minato. He has Tsunade's healing factor, which is greater than all of Minato's attacks. His AoE Mokuton will allow him to go in and out of the wood and spawn several clones that are indescribable from the original. Gamabunta? Pfft. Hashirama took on Madara and the Kyuubi. He'd nonchalantly snap that toad in two. And once again, he posses one Mokuton tech that would leave him done.

The oppurtunity always presents itself. How was he injured the first time? Oppurtunity presented itself. Daduemon already covered the intel part.

Tsunade would be murdered by a rasengan. Just sayin. As far as the clones are concerned, I guess it's a good thing Minato's attacks are instant, so he can systematically find the right one. And fighting in the woods would be a terrible idea for a guy that can tag several areas and teleport to them immediately. At least in a flat terrain area, Hashirama would be able to kind of see where Minato could pop up. He'd have no clue in a forest area.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, they can't. Seals are not chakra, they are seals. Never was it shown that the Sharingan can track/find seals. It was for chakra, but not seals.

Are these made of chakra then?

Originally posted by dadudemon
No they don't, unless they use the six paths form. 😄

Considering that it is a latent ability, it hardly matters.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No they aren't as Minato easily sliced through one of the Hachibi's arms.

It's the "sealing of" that Minato had problems with. He could not seal all of Kurama's power and had to cut it in half. Kurama is the exception since Kurama is as powerful as all the other biju, combined, in half chakra form.

Not all the way through and Bijuu give not a single damn if they can make multiple limbs to deal with him. And they can, in V2.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's incorrect, but trivial on my part for pointing it out.

Tobi already wasn't holding back against Naruto. Remember that post I posted a few days ago where Tobi got the vase with Gin and Kin stored inside? And then Tobi later remarked that he doesn't have to worry about killing Naruto during their fight?

Here's why that is trivial: Tobi still has to capture the Hachibi so he can't just start launching biju blasts.

Well...that was true until a few chapters ago when he did just that against Naruto. 😬

Wasn't talking about any of that.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c567/13.html

Tobi, according to Guy, isn't using his Rinnegan abilities because Naruto already knows how they work, meaning they would just be a waste of chakra. Considering Tobi has the ability to drain chakra though, this is hardly an issue.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree. Minato seems to be one of he few people that can instantly figure things out before they are even used. Minato has "sight beyond sight" 😆

But, no, for real, why would we throw Minato up against Tobi without any knowledge of what Tobi's abilities are? I always assumed it would be all the knowledge Naruto has because Minato saw all the stuff Naruto did while inside his mind...er somptin. Regardless, I also thought Minato would be briefed just as much as Tobi would be. Unfair to brief one and not the other in a matchup, imo. Also, if you wanted to be fair, you could have neither party know of the other's abilities.

Indeed.

No idea how much info Minato got from inside Naruto remember? I think I proposed the idea that it takes a while for them to become active while inside Naruto and they only do so when he is emotional, since that is when they were needed. But meh. And sure. Minato has far fewer abilities so Tobi wouldn't have that hard a time figuring things out, due to sharingan.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree. Nothing will save Madara except the Mirror Shield (not kidding, here).

He doesn't have that but it hardly matters. What can Minato do about the sleeping flower thing? Or the 25 Madara's with Susano'o running around?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Hashirama would lose to Minato mostly because Minato >> Sarutobi and Sarutobi >>>>> Hashirama. But also because Hashirama would quickly run out of chakra against Minato.

Minato's porting would allow him to port away from any and all of Hashirama's attacks. Minato's speed would also allow him to deliver killing blows to Hashirama.

Hashirama>Kyuubi and Madara>>> Kyuubi and Tobi=Minato.

Not all of them. And a killing blow against someone that has Tsunade's regen does not exist, short of I guess cutting the head off or something. Course, Hashirama could just leave the fight to the clones and hide in trees. Or the ground. Whichever.

Originally posted by socool8520
The oppurtunity always presents itself. How was he injured the first time? Oppurtunity presented itself. Daduemon already covered the intel part.

Tsunade would be murdered by a rasengan. Just sayin. As far as the clones are concerned, I guess it's a good thing Minato's attacks are instant, so he can systematically find the right one. And fighting in the woods would be a terrible idea for a guy that can tag several areas and teleport to them immediately. At least in a flat terrain area, Hashirama would be able to kind of see where Minato could pop up. He'd have no clue in a forest area.

Not an argument and the Tobi this time around does not have to personally fight Minato.

Just like Kabuto amirite? And no, Minato's attacks are not instant. He still has to aim and swing and think. And you seem to misunderstand what "in the wood" meant. Hashirama can sink into the wood and basically masturbate there all day and send tons of clones to deal with Minato. Until he eventually gets tired and puts Minato down.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Are these made of chakra then?

I fail to see how this scan is even remotely relevant to my point.

But, to play along...

No, those are not chakra: they are targets.

Only one was in a "blind spot" of which, Itachi knew the location.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Considering that it is a latent ability, it hardly matters.

It directly matters: he needs 6 bodies to use the 6 paths in 6 bodies.

If you said, "he can just shadow clone himself and implant control rods for shared vision", cool, would agree. However, there's a problem: Minato is not going to sit by while Tobi does that: no ninja would.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Not all the way through and Bijuu give not a single damn if they can make multiple limbs to deal with him. And they can, in V2.

It didn't?

Also, the only one seen making multiple magical hands, that I recall, is Kurama. 🙂 On top of that, you're ignoring the fact that Minato can quickly cut up a biju.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Wasn't talking about any of that.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c567/13.html

Tobi, according to Guy, isn't using his Rinnegan abilities because Naruto already knows how they work, meaning they would just be a waste of chakra. Considering Tobi has the ability to drain chakra though, this is hardly an issue.

B-but I was talking about that. That's why Tobi isn't "holding back" with Naruto. And what you said that Gai said is not entirely true. It's that Tobi cannot afford the chakra expenditure to use those high-level techs. It had more to do with "perfectly controlling the tailed beasts" than it does lacking use. I fail to see how Deva path's techs are useless against them. What about the chibaku tensei? What about shinra tensei? Both of those should quickly end the fight: Tobi is also not aware that Naruto was told how to counter chibaku tensei.

It's a plot hole OR...what Kakashi said. Tobi found the beasts to be more useful in a fight against Naruto and B.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Minato has far fewer abilities so Tobi wouldn't have that hard a time figuring things out, due to sharingan.

The problem is not Tobi knowing/figuring out Minato's abilities, it is Minato figuring out Tobi's abilities.

Minato would easily figure out Tobi's abilities: much more quickly than anyone else we have seen go up against the 6 paths. With the ability to port, there is no problem with the "shared vision". You can't track with your eyes what pops up in one location and then another...that's why it is teleporting. So that's an advantage Minato will have over the six paths ESPECIALLY because he can put a porting seal on every single one of the 6 paths by the briefest of instances. Thus giving Minato the ability to quick one-shot any single one of them. Minato can also easily escape Shinra and Chibaku Tensei with his porting. The 6 paths do not do much for Tobi, even as a surprise weapon. However, I find it unfair that you want to give Tobi knowledge and Minato none: they both get none or some.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He doesn't have that but it hardly matters. What can Minato do about the sleeping flower thing? Or the 25 Madara's with Susano'o running around?

What can Minato do about the sleepy flower thing other than having killed Madara before he gets a chance to release such a wide-scale/slow attack? Well, for one, he could port himself to a distant observation. BFR? Nope.

And 25 Madara's with Susano'o? Well, that's easy: Minato just watches from a distance while Madara quickly drains his chakra trying to stay on the defense. 🙂

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Hashirama>Kyuubi and Madara>>> Kyuubi and Tobi=Minato.

In terms of power, alone, no, Hashirama is not > Kyubi. He just has a special KG that allows him to control the Kyubi.

Tobi is not equal to Minato.

Tobi <<<<<<<<<<<< Minato even with the Kyubi and holding Minato's wife hostage and creating a distraction.

Minato >>>>>>Tobi+Kyubi+Konoha Village Attack Distraction+Captured Wife Distraction+Son Endangered Distraction

🙂

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Not all of them. And a killing blow against someone that has Tsunade's regen does not exist, short of I guess cutting the head off or something. Course, Hashirama could just leave the fight to the clones and hide in trees. Or the ground. Whichever.

Yes, all of them: easily.

And, yes, stabbing someone in the brain-stem will disallow them to regen because the destroys all functions in the body. if you can't think, you can't regen. Wait, you kind of addressed that with the "head cut off". Okay, we agree. But I think a stab to the brain stem is more than enough to stop that regen mode. Also, it could easily be a war of attrition, not just an insta-kill. Minato has all day and can be anywhere, all day.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Minato's attacks are not instant. He still has to aim and swing and think.

But that's like making the argument that lightning is slow because it still has to propagate through the atmosphere. Minato is still absurdly fast. So fast that even people like A and B could not see him put a seal on the uncut (lol) portion of Hachibi's arm.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And you seem to misunderstand what "in the wood" meant. Hashirama can sink into the wood and basically masturbate there all day and send tons of clones to deal with Minato. Until he eventually gets tired and puts Minato down.

Minato can port away to a safe distance while Hashirama is 'in the wood' and fashion himself tons of explosive tags and then throw tons at the "wood" until Hashirama either comes out to play or dies in the explosions. See, this is the problem with making Minato wait out in the distance: he gets plenty of prep time.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I fail to see how this scan is even remotely relevant to my point.

But, to play along...

No, those are not chakra: they are targets.

Only one was in a "blind spot" of which, Itachi knew the location.

Point: Sharingan can track the movements of several shuriken flying through the air and allows them to keep multiple targets recorded in their mind. Minato's kunai will not be that hard to find and so he will have all his points covered in some way.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It directly matters: he needs 6 bodies to use the 6 paths in 6 bodies.

If you said, "he can just shadow clone himself and implant control rods for shared vision", cool, would agree. However, there's a problem: Minato is not going to sit by while Tobi does that: no ninja would.

...He has 6 bodies? The 6 Jinchuriki bodies?

Originally posted by dadudemon
It didn't?

Also, the only one seen making multiple magical hands, that I recall, is Kurama. 🙂 On top of that, you're ignoring the fact that Minato can quickly cut up a biju.

No, it didn't. Bee began shrinking it inside of himself.

Kurama isn't the only one.

Originally posted by dadudemon
B-but I was talking about that. That's why Tobi isn't "holding back" with Naruto. And what you said that Gai said is not entirely true. It's that Tobi cannot afford the chakra expenditure to use those high-level techs. It had more to do with "perfectly controlling the tailed beasts" than it does lacking use. I fail to see how Deva path's techs are useless against them. What about the chibaku tensei? What about shinra tensei? Both of those should quickly end the fight: Tobi is also not aware that Naruto was told how to counter chibaku tensei.

It's a plot hole OR...what Kakashi said. Tobi found the beasts to be more useful in a fight against Naruto and B.

Naruto is familiar with the 5 second time limit and he knows that Naruto somehow escaped the Chibaku Tensei against Pain.

It can be both. Chakra absorption is the most useful ability against Bijuu but Tobi knows that Naruto is familiar with it, so he neglects it. Really, he doesn't have to but he can choose whether he wants to use the Paths powers or not.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The problem is not Tobi knowing/figuring out Minato's abilities, it is Minato figuring out Tobi's abilities.

Minato would easily figure out Tobi's abilities: much more quickly than anyone else we have seen go up against the 6 paths. With the ability to port, there is no problem with the "shared vision". You can't track with your eyes what pops up in one location and then another...that's why it is teleporting. So that's an advantage Minato will have over the six paths ESPECIALLY because he can put a porting seal on every single one of the 6 paths by the briefest of instances. Thus giving Minato the ability to quick one-shot any single one of them. Minato can also easily escape Shinra and Chibaku Tensei with his porting. The 6 paths do not do much for Tobi, even as a surprise weapon. However, I find it unfair that you want to give Tobi knowledge and Minato none: they both get none or some.

And what would Minato do about, say, Fu's blinding tech? And I'm given them none. The problem is Minato's fighting style is simplistic and would not take nearly as long for anyone to figure out. Hell, A had him pretty well figured out after the first exchange and Tobi is both much smarter than A and has far more advantages. Minato simply has too many things that he needs to learn really quickly for him to gain a starting advantage over Tobi.

Originally posted by dadudemon
What can Minato do about the sleepy flower thing other than having killed Madara before he gets a chance to release such a wide-scale/slow attack? Well, for one, he could port himself to a distant observation. BFR? Nope.

And 25 Madara's with Susano'o? Well, that's easy: Minato just watches from a distance while Madara quickly drains his chakra trying to stay on the defense. 🙂

Yeah, Minato will insta-kill Madara because Madara is susceptible to speed blitz. Which is why he blocked an attack from A. Keep in mind, Minato's takes the more round about way of needing to throw a kunai at Madara first. A kunai he can choose to block, repel, whatever. And oh, I'm sorry. I thought this was going to be like the Tobi fight, where we don't give them info. How will Minato know what the flower does? Particularly while Madara is keeping him busy?

He has to throw a kunai from a distance. And Madara can deactivate the Susano'o and look for him. Shared vision means Minato won't be all that hard to find and Shinra Tensei can make things more interesting.

Originally posted by dadudemon
In terms of power, alone, no, Hashirama is not > Kyubi. He just has a special KG that allows him to control the Kyubi.

Tobi is not equal to Minato.

Tobi <<<<<<<<<<<< Minato even with the Kyubi and holding Minato's wife hostage and creating a distraction.

Minato >>>>>>Tobi+Kyubi+Konoha Village Attack Distraction+Captured Wife Distraction+Son Endangered Distraction

🙂

Since he physically restrained the Kyuubi, he is >Kyuubi.

Indeed, I put equal because Minato technically stopped the Kyuubi and Tobi. Unfortunately for him, he ended up on the dead side of the fight while Tobi was free to do whatever. And keep in mind, without Kushina, Minato would have been killed by the Kyuubi.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, all of them: easily.

And, yes, stabbing someone in the brain-stem will disallow them to regen because the destroys all functions in the body. if you can't think, you can't regen. Wait, you kind of addressed that with the "head cut off". Okay, we agree. But I think a stab to the brain stem is more than enough to stop that regen mode. Also, it could easily be a war of attrition, not just an insta-kill. Minato has all day and can be anywhere, all day.

The pollen technique is effectively invisible. So no, not all of them. Unless you're giving him full knowledge.

Minato does not have the chakra to outlast Hashirama. And if Hashirama uses his genjutsu, Minato might as well just give up.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But that's like making the argument that lightning is slow because it still has to propagate through the atmosphere. Minato is still absurdly fast. So fast that even people like A and B could not see him put a seal on the uncut (lol) portion of Hachibi's arm.

No, it just means that lightning is not instant. And that is fast movement of hands. And...well quite frankly, Hashirama could beat both Bee and A without much difficulty.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Minato can port away to a safe distance while Hashirama is 'in the wood' and fashion himself tons of explosive tags and then throw tons at the "wood" until Hashirama either comes out to play or dies in the explosions. See, this is the problem with making Minato wait out in the distance: he gets plenty of prep time.

Minato is limited on how far he can go, distance hardly matters to the guy who can throw a forrest at you, and his genjutsu is far too much for Minato to handle on top of everything else.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Point: Sharingan can track the movements of several shuriken flying through the air and allows them to keep multiple targets recorded in their mind. Minato's kunai will not be that hard to find and so he will have all his points covered in some way.

These abilities you have given the sharingan, not an ability it actually has. Are you confusing abilities in fanfic?

And memorizing where Kunai are does not do several things:

1. Make Itachi magically fast enough to reach each Kunai thrown in an instant.

2. Make each memorized Kunai pop-up into Itachi's mind for immediate response.

3. Prevent Minato from making seals with his hands so fast that it cannot be tracked (Itachi has done something like this, himself, but training his hand seals beyond the ability of the sharingan to see it).

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
...He has 6 bodies? The 6 Jinchuriki bodies?

I thought we were talking about Madara on this particular point. We are talking about both Madara and Tobi. Even if it is Tobi, I have addressed the 6 paths with Tobi.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
No, it didn't. Bee began shrinking it inside of himself.

Yes it did, it clearly is cut off in the scan I showed you. He leaves it stationary for a few panels and as soon as he shrinks it back into himself, there is a clear "slice" missing off of the end. I gave you the scan that clearly shows that; there's nothing more I can provide you that is as obvious and clear cut as that.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Kurama isn't the only one.

Yes, Kurama is:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c568/6.html

See the top panel in the middle: those are their own arms being extended into the ground, not multiple arms being generated from random places on their bodies like Kurama can do.

Again, this is as far as I can recall.

However, even if they can create tons of random arms like Kurama, they are all easily cut off by Minato and it's a chakra drain for the beasts. The beasts do not have endless chakra: Hachibi seems to have the second most and he has run out of chakra multiple times. So it's a moot point.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Naruto is familiar with the 5 second time limit and he knows that Naruto somehow escaped the Chibaku Tensei against Pain.

Which does nothing to help Naruto and co if they are blasted really far back a la Gamabunta. Naruto's only recourse is to anchor down with tons of shadow clones which he could/cannot make due to being almost out of chakra by the time he fought Tobi. Tobi could easily have hit them at any time. It's a plot device, nothing more.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It can be both. Chakra absorption is the most useful ability against Bijuu but Tobi knows that Naruto is familiar with it, so he neglects it. Really, he doesn't have to but he can choose whether he wants to use the Paths powers or not.

I agree. It's PIS...almost. Kishimoto tries to justify his gimping of Tobi by having Tobi occupied with controlling the 6 "paths"/jinchuriki's. That's a lame excuse but it is supposed to work. Why can't he stop for a very small split second, "push", and then resume control? He easily could.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And what would Minato do about, say, Fu's blinding tech?

This incorrectly assumes Fu can even get off such a tech.

Not be blind by it because Fu would have been killed already. 🙂

You're forgetting that Minato is absurdly fast and efficient at his killing. More than likely, Tobi would end up dead in the first second the fight started because, unlike Pain, Tobi is present on the battlefield.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And I'm given them none. The problem is Minato's fighting style is simplistic and would not take nearly as long for anyone to figure out. Hell, A had him pretty well figured out after the first exchange and Tobi is both much smarter than A and has far more advantages.

Yet, Tobi went down like a b***h against Minato even with his mary sue-ish ability to go intangible.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Minato simply has too many things that he needs to learn really quickly for him to gain a starting advantage over Tobi.

No, Minato has hardly anything he needs to learn as he can avoid almost anything Tobi can throw at him and Tobi cannot avoid hardly anything Minato can throw at him (this has been proven and will be evne more of a factor because Tobi will be occupied trying to control his paths).

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Yeah, Minato will insta-kill Madara because Madara is susceptible to speed blitz.

Oh yeah, forgot about that. You're right. 😐 <----serious

But let's forget about the couple of times Madara was speed-blitzed for the sake of a fight actually occurring.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Which is why he blocked an attack from A.

Blocking a punch while being launched several dekameters is hardly the same thing as reacting to a kunai slash that can slice through biju like butter. If the same exchange were to occur with Minato, Madara would be in half. Fight would be over. That's a semi-decent argument, on your part, but it fails to acknowledge that Madara would be sliced in half.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Keep in mind, Minato's takes the more round about way of needing to throw a kunai at Madara first. A kunai he can choose to block, repel, whatever.

This definitely is not a problem for Minato, though. That's to his advantage as we have seen that dedicating time to do anything about those kunai is a detriment to the person it was thrown towards.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And oh, I'm sorry. I thought this was going to be like the Tobi fight, where we don't give them info. How will Minato know what the flower does? Particularly while Madara is keeping him busy?

That's easy: Minato is the 4th Hokage and a very rare genius. Why would Minato not know about Hashirama's abilities?

Even if they don't have info, why would Minato just stand there and wait for flowers to open, then wait for the cloud of sleepy pollen to drift towards him? That's quite a big leap on your part to assume all of that would occur. At least with the 5 Kages, they were surrounded by it and just sat in it: they have an excuse of being idiots (but Tsunade pointed out the tech...but they didn't respond fast enough).

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He has to throw a kunai from a distance. And Madara can deactivate the Susano'o and look for him. Shared vision means Minato won't be all that hard to find and Shinra Tensei can make things more interesting.

And the instant Madara deactivates Susano'o, he's free for the pickins. That's the exact thing I would want Madara to do if I were Minato.

Madara: Where the **** did he go. Guess I better look for him. *deactives Susano'o*

*Gets his head cut off*

Minato: That was the stupidest thing you could have possibly done.

Madara *through a gargling voices* Why? How? *dies*

It's best that Madara keep up Susano'o the entire time. The moment he lets it down is the moment he dies. "How is he going to get to them that quickly?" How is Madara going to find all the kunai and porting seals before he runs out of chakra especially if Minato can continue to make them and or throw them?

Since he physically restrained the Kyuubi, he is >Kyuubi.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Indeed, I put equal because Minato technically stopped the Kyuubi and Tobi. Unfortunately for him, he ended up on the dead side of the fight while Tobi was free to do whatever. And keep in mind, without Kushina, Minato would have been killed by the Kyuubi.

I hardly see how sealing Tobi's ability to summon the Kyubi while working on a way to get Kurama sealed back into another Konoha "nin" is a loss for Minato. Remember, Naruto doesn't think Minato failed, either...and we know Naruto's thoughts on his father are more canon than the bible. 🙂

And, no, without Kushina, Minato would have just ported the Kyubi really far away until he had time to get help to seal it into someone.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The pollen technique is effectively invisible. So no, not all of them. Unless you're giving him full knowledge.

Yes, all of them, easily. The pollen Technique is not only not invisible, Minato will have knowledge of it because I do not need to give a successor Hokage knowledge of a previous one: they studied that in school like all the other good little boy and girl ninjas.

Unless you're going to suggest that massive techs from past hokage were magically unknown to anyone in the ninja world, especially the successor kages?

If you want 0 knowledge, then not even Madara knows he can do that. If you want full knowledge of their own techs but no knowledge of each other, then I already addressed why it fails to work: he's not nearly stupid enough to just sit there and wait.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Minato does not have the chakra to outlast Hashirama. And if Hashirama uses his genjutsu, Minato might as well just give up.

Hashirama does no have the chakra to outlast Minato. And if Hashirama uses his genjutsu, since it is short to mid-range in ability according to the databook, Minato will be just fine. A single teleport would resolve Minato's problems. 🙂

This is what you keep looking over: Minato's ability to seemingly BFR, but still be in the fight. This not only makes him virtually intangible in any fight (fact proven multiple times), he also has faster reflexes and speed than any other shinobi we have seen in the series.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
No, it just means that lightning is not instant. And that is fast movement of hands. And...well quite frankly, Hashirama could beat both Bee and A without much difficulty.

Lightning is instant for humans because we literally cannot receive the visual information on the lightning strike until after it has occurred. The point was a rather good one, on my part, because it is faster than instant to a human's perception: it occurs before we can perceive it. Why do I make this point? Because Minato is faster than people can perceive him. 🙂 It's already too late by the time Minato has made his move.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Minato is limited on how far he can go,

Of course: I am not saying that Minato can port to a different planet.

However, it is very apparent that Minato can port to places he does not have seals:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c502/7.html

Also, this is the same thing that would happen to Tobi when the fight starts if he has the 6 paths:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c503/4.html

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
distance hardly matters to the guy who can throw a forrest at you, and his genjutsu is far too much for Minato to handle on top of everything else.

Forests hardly matter when you can create massive distances between yourself and your opponent. And his genjutsu is hardly useful when it has a short to mid range.

Hashirama/Madara/Tobi are just outclassed. For all their might and jutsus, there's just not protection against Minato.

Against Minato:

If Tobi tries to use a Biju ball with his paths, he's dead. If Tobi tries to use the 6 paths techs against Minato, he's dead. Why? Because he should focus on protecting his person rather than controlling the paths. It's a bad idea to use the paths against Minato because he needs to deploy them, remotely, a la Nagato. Bad matchup. Tobi's best bet is to focus on keeping himself alive and porting away.

If Madara doesn't throw up Susano'o immediately, he gets cut in half and insta-killed. Based on in-character moves by both Minato and Madara, Madara will not do so. So to make the fight more interesting than a speed blitz where Madara is cut in half, let's pretend Madara's first move is to throw up Susano'o. Then Minato just has to port away and perform a war of attrition. This is also the possiblity that Minato can seal Madara's ability to use Susano'o because Minato sealed Tobi's sharingan specific ability to control the kyubi. Minato can also seal chakra with ease. So Madara is screwed no matter what he tries.

If we pretend Madara has Hashirama's abilites, then it's the same story. No matter what Madara tries, Minato gets the ability to port away and avoid anything Madara does. Even with a successful push attack, Minato can just port out of it, mid-air.

Against Hashirama, Minato will have the toughest opponent. A quick stab to the brain or a cutting off of Hashirama's head will do the trick, however. We know enough about Hashirama to know he's not nearly as fast as Minato: he was on par with Hiruzen and Hiruzen is a 3 in speed.

Originally posted by dadudemon
These abilities you have given the sharingan, not an ability it actually has. Are you confusing abilities in fanfic?

1. Make Itachi magically fast enough to reach each Kunai thrown in an instant.

2. Make each memorized Kunai pop-up into Itachi's mind for immediate response.

3. Prevent Minato from making seals with his hands so fast that it cannot be tracked (Itachi has done something like this, himself, but training his hand seals beyond the ability of the sharingan to see it).

Fanfic huh? Your fictionalized version of Minato is probably close to that.

1. Itachi is fast enough to react to thrown projectiles with nary a difficulty, it hardly matters.

2. Considering the Sharingan allows one to record something as complex has multiple handsigns, I'm pretty sure a few kunai locations are not going to be that difficult.

3. So Minato is suddenly>Sharingan based on the fact that he got a tag on a mook and Bee without them noticing? I'm sorry but the Sharingan easily has feats that would make such an idea look silly.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes it did, it clearly is cut off in the scan I showed you. He leaves it stationary for a few panels and as soon as he shrinks it back into himself, there is a clear "slice" missing off of the end. I gave you the scan that clearly shows that; there's nothing more I can provide you that is as obvious and clear cut as that.

Dude, based on your own scan look at the tip on the freaking tentacle. Does that look like it's been severed? Hell, you can see the...blood or whatever coming out from behind the tip. You can even see the same number of suckers in both panels.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, Kurama is:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c568/6.html

See the top panel in the middle: those are their own arms being extended into the ground, not multiple arms being generated from random places on their bodies like Kurama can do.

You do realize that the panel is of only one Bijuu while Kakashi cut off 6 hands right? Its the five tails and he clearly still has his hands afterwards so yeah, they can make more hands.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This incorrectly assumes Fu can even get off such a tech.

Not be blind by it because Fu would have been killed already. 🙂

You're forgetting that Minato is absurdly fast and efficient at his killing. More than likely, Tobi would end up dead in the first second the fight started because, unlike Pain, Tobi is present on the battlefield.

Oh I'm sorry. I thought you understood. Neither Minato or Tobi will get info for this. Unless you honestly believe that Minato will look at Fu and think "This girl has a light powered genjutsu and I need to take her out first." Keep in mind, he has to port to kill her so quickly and for that he needs the seals to be around her and since they have the Sharingan, they will obviously dodge the seals. Nevermind the fact that they can, pfft, counter attack.

Seriously, are you under the impression that Minato is just some untouchable god? That he'll just know who to kill first and why they need to be killed? That he'll be able to port to them, despite the obviously telegraphed actions he has to take before doing said porting? Tobi is the same guy who was keeping up with Bee and Naruto, who has the distinction of being really just as fast as Minato, and you honestly think that for no real reason, SPEED will somehow shock this guy and catch him off guard? That the guy who has the ability to see every scratch on the kunai Minato throws and has the most powerful spacetime tech in the series will just be a sitting duck to something that mother ****ing A figured out?

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, Minato has hardly anything he needs to learn as he can avoid almost anything Tobi can throw at him and Tobi cannot avoid hardly anything Minato can throw at him

Minato has to deal with: Sharingan, shared vision, various techs from 6 different and bijuu powered shinobi, the abilities of the Rinnegan, the 6 Bijuu, and on top of all that, an improved version of the guy who was giving him a run for his money before, who also happens to have access to Gedo Mazo, the strongest summon in the series. Minato has a lot of variables in this fight and his offense sucks. The only reason Minato tagged Tobi before was because he attacked from behind. To a guy with 6 other view points, this is impossible to do. Not to mention, gasp, Tobi doesn't need to really get involved.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Blocking a punch while being launched several dekameters is hardly the same thing as reacting to a kunai slash that can slice through biju like butter. If the same exchange were to occur with Minato, Madara would be in half.

Then again, you probably think Minato is stronger than A.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's easy: Minato is the 4th Hokage and a very rare genius. Why would Minato not know about Hashirama's abilities?

Even if they don't have info, why would Minato just stand there and wait for flowers to open, then wait for the cloud of sleepy pollen to drift towards him? That's quite a big leap on your part to assume all of that would occur. At least with the 5 Kages, they were surrounded by it and just sat in it: they have an excuse of being idiots (but Tsunade pointed out the tech...but they didn't respond fast enough).

Because you said Tobi couldn't have info on Minato's abilities, despite Minato's abilities being very well known in the world and to Tobi before his fight. But of course, since that doesn't benefit Minato, it's the exception.

Because he has other shit to deal with. You called the Kage idiots but you know the real reason that tech got them? Because Madara made it get them. He pinned them down and made certain it worked. Why won't it work here? Well, I guess because that would make Minato look bad and God knows we just can't have that.

Originally posted by dadudemon
*Stupid scenario*

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about Minato here. Not ****ing Goku. Minato has to have a SEAL to do shit like that and if Susano'o is up, how is he supposed to have one placed on Madara? Why would Madara just stand next to the seal that is obviously being used for a space time tech?

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's best that Madara keep up Susano'o the entire time. The moment he lets it down is the moment he dies. "How is he going to get to them that quickly?" How is Madara going to find all the kunai and porting seals before he runs out of chakra especially if Minato can continue to make them and or throw them?

Shinra mother ****ing Tensei renders all of that pointless. He'll just blow away the entire area and the seals with be knocked away too. Or just Chibaku Tensei the place and tell Minato to piss off.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And, no, without Kushina, Minato would have just ported the Kyubi really far away until he had time to get help to seal it into someone.

Cause, you know, he wasn't struggling with his chakra or anything by that point.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If you want full knowledge of their own techs but no knowledge of each other, then I already addressed why it fails to work: he's not nearly stupid enough to just sit there and wait.

No shit this is how it's supposed to work. And it doesn't matter. The forest, created in an instant, is pretty substantial range and unless Minato prepared for it ahead of time, he won't have a seal out of range. Keep in mind, Madara just has to distract him long enough until he inhales it, and he will.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Hashirama does no have the chakra to outlast Minato. And if Hashirama uses his genjutsu, since it is short to mid-range in ability according to the databook, Minato will be just fine. A single teleport would resolve Minato's problems. 🙂

This is what you keep looking over: Minato's ability to seemingly BFR, but still be in the fight. This not only makes him virtually intangible in any fight (fact proven multiple times), he also has faster reflexes and speed than any other shinobi we have seen in the series.

You are out of your mind if you think that. Considering Minato doesn't throw his kunai miles away from him, he'll be in range. The genjutsu merely has to distract him.

I'm not overlooking it. You're overrating it severely. As good a jutsu as it is, it still has limits. He can't have seals everywhere just because and his opponents aren't just going to let him constantly use them just because.

Originally posted by dadudemon
However, it is very apparent that Minato can port to places he does not have seals:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c502/7.html

Considering that is how his powers explicitly work, no he can't. That is giving him powers he doesn't posses. He clearly has seals elsewhere, such as on the monument and where he sent the blast. He even mentions having to be careful where he sent it, as if deciding between multiple spots.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Hashirama/Madara/Tobi are just outclassed. For all their might and jutsus, there's just not protection against Minato.

All 3 are stronger than Minato. I'm done with this fanboyish argument.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Fanfic huh? Your fictionalized version of Minato is probably close to that.

At least I stick with on-panel abilities. 🙂

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
1. Itachi is fast enough to react to thrown projectiles with nary a difficulty, it hardly matters.

This reply is non-sequitur to point #1. Sure, he's fast, but literally moving to each thrown Kunai is not possible. Maybe you misread and thought I typed "react" instead of reach. I'm referring to when they are thrown/scattered all around him: he can't reach them all.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
2. Considering the Sharingan allows one to record something as complex has multiple handsigns, I'm pretty sure a few kunai locations are not going to be that difficult.

Considering A memorized them (mostly) without a sharingan, I highly doubt that fanfic ability you gave the sharingan just now is necessary. Considering that point #1 exists, your reply to point #2 is irrelevant. My point #2 has still not been properly replied to because having them memorized is not the same thing as "making each memorized Kunai pop-up into Itachi's mind for immediate response." Of course you didn't form a response to that...because that's a Naruto KCM or A-amped only ability. 🙂

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
3. So Minato is suddenly>Sharingan based on the fact that he got a tag on a mook and Bee without them noticing? I'm sorry but the Sharingan easily has feats that would make such an idea look silly.

lol. Are you serious?

Yes. Minato>Sharingan precog.

Minato>A

A>Sharingan preocg

Man, I hope you're not serious.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Dude, based on your own scan look at the tip on the freaking tentacle. Does that look like it's been severed? Hell, you can see the...blood or whatever coming out from behind the tip. You can even see the same number of suckers in both panels.

Seriously? 😬

This is not something that can be debated.

Yes, it has been severed, dude. Not even severed, but cleanly sliced off. It is flat. The fully intact tentacle is not flat: it is rounded on the end. Go back and read it again.

You'll get a copy-pasta if you think you can reply with silly arguments like that. Be serious.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You do realize that the panel is of only one Bijuu while Kakashi cut off 6 hands right? Its the five tails and he clearly still has his hands afterwards so yeah, they can make more hands.

6 hands = 3 pairs of hands.

Making more pairs of hands was never debated. That was not up for debate, even a little. The problem is replicating more hands and the chakra drain it takes to replicate more body parts. Unless, of course, you're going to pull up the "limitless chakra" argument. I have a couple of scans waiting for you if you make that argument. lol

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Oh I'm sorry. I thought you understood. Neither Minato or Tobi will get info for this. Unless you honestly believe that Minato will look at Fu and think "This girl has a light powered genjutsu and I need to take her out first." Keep in mind, he has to port to kill her so quickly and for that he needs the seals to be around her and since they have the Sharingan, they will obviously dodge the seals. Nevermind the fact that they can, pfft, counter attack.

I apologize.

I thought you understood that shared vision is useless against a teleporter because they don't move from point A to point B: they teleport. By the time he goes to a location, it is too late: the killing blow has been made. There is no "shared vision" reaction that will save them. Not even A has the ability to avoid that type of attack (proven, on panel...saved by his brother). Even IF you assume Fu is magically saved by another (none of them can boast to be as fast as B or A) jinchuriki zombie, there's the problem of one of them ending up with a seal and then it's over for that zombie, anyway.

And the light genjutsu is not a genjutsu: it is a "solar flare" type of attack. Something that is hardly a problem for any teleporter. Also, his reflexes and speed are so fast that she will not do much with it other than waste chakra. She will end up with a missing head while she tries to prepare the attack...it takes a while to charge:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v59/c564/7.html

mwhahahahahaaaaa

NEXT! 😆

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Seriously, are you under the impression that Minato is just some untouchable god?

Yeah, pretty much. It's fairly close to impossible to harm Minato when he fights by himself. 🙂

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
That he'll just know who to kill first and why they need to be killed?

It's unnecessary for him to know that as he'll kill Tobi first.

UNLESS....you want Minato to have no knowledge of their previous encounter. Then it just seems like you're modifying fight conditions to be in favor of a Minato loss (because that's how you roll as I find out later). In which case, I'll still say Minato wins even easier and here's why: Tobi will have no knowledge of Minato's abilities and 4 or 5 of the people will be killed, instantly, as soon as the fight starts.

😐

Not kidding about this.

See, some more seriousness ----> 😐

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
That he'll be able to port to them, despite the obviously telegraphed actions he has to take before doing said porting?

With no knowledge of each other, like you're trying to pull, now...no, they will not know what those mean. They are also not geniuses like Minato. Tobi doesn't even come off as being all that smart, as well.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Tobi is the same guy who was keeping up with Bee and Naruto,

Correction: Tobi is the same guy who deployed 6 jinchuriki and 6 biju, who each have the sharingan and rinnegan, and he also has the sharingan and rinnegan, against an exhausted Naruto and B. Make sure you keep things in context so we know the playing field. Tobi is not keeping up with B and Naruto: Tobi is keeping up with Kakashi, Gai, B, and Naruto.

A fully healthy Minato would have ended the conflict in a Yellow Flash. PUN ****IN' INTENDED! 😆

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
who has the distinction of being really just as fast as Minato,

Woah. No need to go off the deep-end into "what the **** is that guy smoking?" land. Minato clearly outclassed Tobi in every way in speed and reactions. Tobi was still in mid kunai swing when Minato had already taken Baby Naruto away and landed on the wall. Hilariously faster than Tobi. If Minato did not have to save his son, he could have used that moment to cut off Tobi's head, instead. lol hahaha. Oh man...it's now very obvious how quickly the 6 paths of Tobi go down to Minato. Now I really believe my previous arguments.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
and you honestly think that for no real reason, SPEED will somehow shock this guy and catch him off guard?

Yes, because it happened every single encounter with Tobi. Tobi is very fast at going tangible to intangible to tangible. Extremely fast. However, Minato is faster by significant margins. So much faster than if Tobi doesn't go intangible the instant the fight starts, he may end up dead along with 3-4 other of his paths. That's how serious this fight would be for Tobi if Tobi goes in with no knowledge. Or are you forgetting that Minato could take out an entire platoon in a flash/instant? Flee on sight orders were given for a reason. FUTILE TO ATTEMPT AN ATTACKERROOOOOO~~~~!!!!~~~!~!~!!!

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
That the guy who has the ability to see every scratch on the kunai Minato throws and has the most powerful spacetime tech in the series will just be a sitting duck to something that mother ****ing A figured out?

Again, more fan fic on your part. Sharingan does not give one the ability to see like that, especially when it is thrown uber fast like Minato can do. Especially when A did not even react to them being thrown (that's how fast they were). Especially since A is definitely a smart ninja and has keen observation skills (he's the frackin' Raikge, ffs. Of course he's not an idiot. He's a seasoned ninja from the third shinboi war.) And, yes, Tobi becomes a sitting duck the moment the fight starts if you don't give him knowledge.

Also, Minato will clearly guess that Tobi is the one in charge/controlling things because Tobi will be standing behind everyeone else. Hey, if Neji is smart enough to figure out the real naruto clone, why would a super genius like Minato lack the ability to conclude the same? hmmmmmm? hmmm? HMMMM!?!?!?!?!?!?

AHA! GOTCHA! hahaha

NEXT!!!

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Minato has to deal with: Sharingan,

Speed nulls it. Next.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
shared vision,

Already addressed but porting nulls this. Next.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
various techs from 6 different and bijuu powered shinobi,

His superior speed, porting abilities, sealing abilities, and super intelligence null any of those abilities and then some. None of them are on par with B, I'll remind you. And B and A got their asses handed to them by Minato when Minato took them on by himself, at the same time. The fight took place in a "flash", by the way. Next.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
the abilities of the Rinnegan,

Already addressed. He can't use them. 🙂 If he did use them, none of them are useful against Minato because Minato can port out of any of them.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
the 6 Bijuu,

None of them come close to the power of a fully powered Kurama. Even all of them combined still do not equal half of a full powered Kurama. All 8 of them combined are equal to a half powered Kurama. Besides, he's far too fast for all of them: they will end up with severed limbs all over the place IF (and it literally will not even go that far) they even can get that far into the fight. Next.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
and on top of all that, an improved version of the guy who was giving him a run for his money before,

And to top it all off, Tobi is the same exact person but he's gimped, severely, from his previous form, because he is very distracted trying to control his 6 paths. He's a very easy target and will be much easier to take down than his single form. Tobi was also beaten, severely...almost to death, by Minato. Tobi barely escaped alive like...for real. You're obviously reading fanfic again, if you think Tobi gave Minato a run for his money. Me thinks you don't know what the idiom means. Next.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
who also happens to have access to Gedo Mazo,

Which will do him no good in a battle with an ultra-fast teleporter. It's a waste of Tobi's chakra. Gedo cannot do jack...like...literally. Even if Tobi rode right in Gedo's mouth, it's still a bad choice. What is Gedo going to do except lumber around, slowly, trying to hit Minato? What..."rawr" really loudly and create a shock wave that functions just like a Deva Path push? Covered that argument, already. Next!

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
the strongest summon in the series.

No, that would be, currently, Kurama and any of the tailed beasts. Next up would be deceased ones and that would be 10 tails. If Gedo has the beasts abosrbed, then it is stronger with tons of chakra...........but Kurama is still equal to it but has greater variety in abilities and much more experience.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Minato has a lot of variables in this fight and his offense sucks.

Minato has lots of attack planes, strategies, intelligence, and the other side is detrimented by being controlled by a single person.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The only reason Minato tagged Tobi before was because he attacked from behind.

So this is your last resort? Downplaying why Tobi got his ass kicked to near death? Tobi left the battlefield, near death and utterly defeated on all angles of his plan: even the over-reaching moon eye plan. Even Hashirama cannot boast such a sound victory against Madara.

"The only reasons Tobi lost was because he lost" is what your argument really means.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
To a guy with 6 other view points, this is impossible to do.

Incorrect. To a guy with 6 other viewpoints who can do nothing about a person teleporting behind them, in front of them, above them, below them, etc., they will die just the same.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Not to mention, gasp, Tobi doesn't need to really get involved.

If he wants to live, he sure does.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Then again, you probably think Minato is stronger than A.

He seems to be quite strong. Possibly as strong as A as any of his attacks cause massive craters. His rasengan against Tobi caused a massive crater/land damage that far exceeded A's against Sasuke. His kunai slash also caused some land-distortion, as well...and it was a slice. That's power.

Even concentrating a 10th of A's punch into the kunai slash is still enough power to slice through a shit ton of things or are you forgetting that the surface area of the blade is going to be hundreds of times smaller than the surface area of the fist?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Because you said Tobi couldn't have info on Minato's abilities, despite Minato's abilities being very well known in the world and to Tobi before his fight. But of course, since that doesn't benefit Minato, it's the exception.

This is a different fight, however. But if you want to play it that way, cool. 🙂 Prepare your anus.

Hashirama dies, instantly, as soon as the fight starts: he is stabbed in the head or his head is lopped off. Not kidding. That's really how it would go down as Minato vastly outclasses Hashirama's speed.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Because he has other shit to deal with. You called the Kage idiots but you know the real reason that tech got them? Because Madara made it get them. He pinned them down and made certain it worked. Why won't it work here? Well, I guess because that would make Minato look bad and God knows we just can't have that.

You are close as to the reason it wouldn't work. The real reason is Minato would not end up in a hole in a lack of forest like the Kage. He would have been long gone. Not to mention, the fight would have probably been over before it even progressed that far. Next.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about Minato here. Not ****ing Goku. Minato has to have a SEAL to do shit like that and if Susano'o is up, how is he supposed to have one placed on Madara? Why would Madara just stand next to the seal that is obviously being used for a space time tech?

No, Minato does not have to have a seal up. hahahah. I proved that quite decisively. He ported shit to a random, but safe place. Seems like he can port to places without seals.

And with seals all around him, what choice would Madara have but to just stand next to one. Oh, right...that's exactly what happened to A. mwhahahaha.

NEXT!

Man, this is too fun.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Shinra mother ****ing Tensei renders all of that pointless. He'll just blow away the entire area and the seals with be knocked away too. Or just Chibaku Tensei the place and tell Minato to piss off.

Incorrect. Minato simply ports away before the tech is done OR disrupts the tech as it is being built by attacking Madara when he attempts to do it. Oh man, that response is a bit obvious, don't you think? Next!

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Cause, you know, he wasn't struggling with his chakra or anything by that point.

You do know that you made just my point, right? Instead of porting to Kushina, he could have just ported to no-man's land, left him there, and came back. Minato can spam his porting tech, no problem. He ported near Kushina for help. If he didn't have her, he could have ported Kurama to a much more remote location, gotten help/chakra healing, and then came back for some more action to seal Kurama into someone. However, that would not have made for a heoric ending. Yes, PIS.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
No shit this is how it's supposed to work. And it doesn't matter. The forest, created in an instant, is pretty substantial range and unless Minato prepared for it ahead of time, he won't have a seal out of range. Keep in mind, Madara just has to distract him long enough until he inhales it, and he will.

The forest does not create itself in an instant. Minato would also be prepared for it, ahead of time. He has seals all over the place, at all times. If you want to gimp him, he makes seals, all over the place, as soon as the fight starts. If you want to pretend that's nothing, he can port to places without seals as I clearly show he does just that with the biju blast.

If you want to pretend he cannot port to random places, he kills Madara while Madara is making his forest because all he has to do is throw a few Kunai in Madara's direction and he can port, throw, port, throw, until he's in range to slice Madara in half. Keep in mined that you had to ignore the fact that Madara would already be sliced in half for the fight to end up this far: Madara can be speed blitzed by someone like ****in' Tsuande! haermm

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You are out of your mind if you think that.

Oh no!!!!!! Don't call me a crazy!!!! waaaaaaaaah

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Considering Minato doesn't throw his kunai miles away from him, he'll be in range. The genjutsu merely has to distract him.

Um, yeah, Minato does just that. He has seals all over the place, already in place, at all times. He has prep without preparing because he is that awesome (I am not kidding...read 500 to 504ish again...he literally has seals everywhere to port to just in case).

On top of that, Hiruzen got around the genjutsu just fine, I'll remind you. Minato is far faster than Hiruzen. Hiruzen found the other kage by...get this...smelling them out:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v14/c123/7.html

mwhahahaha.

I win again, laddy.

Regardless, Minato can simply throw a kunai and port away to it to escape the short to mid-range genjutsu. That's assuming you can gimp to the max levels you are wanting to.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I'm not overlooking it. You're overrating it severely.

No, you're overlooking it and underratting it, severely, against on panel evidence.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
As good a jutsu as it is, it still has limits. He can't have seals everywhere just because and his opponents aren't just going to let him constantly use them just because.

You mean, "His opponents are not going to magically be able to deal with all the the seals Minato can put in place, in a mere instant, just because." Your best bet is a shinra tensei to get rid of some of them. Doesn't get rid of them all, however.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Considering that is how his powers explicitly work, no he can't.

Yup, he can. I showed you proof. Next!

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
That is giving him powers he doesn't posses. He clearly has seals elsewhere, such as on the monument and where he sent the blast.

Oh really? He had a seal where he sent the blast, huh? And how did you come to this conclusion using actual evidence? Or are you just speculating? 🙂

Yes, you're just speculating.

Now, and here's the trap...

If you honestly believe he has seals there, then why take them away from him when he goes to fight other people? If they are in place, naturally, because that's how he rolls, why would you feel the need to take them away from him, arbitrarily? That's like taking away Tobi's 6 paths just because (he has to make them all after the fight starts). Just sayin' and pointing out the double standard you're applying.

🙂

Those points still are not necessary to still destroy your arugments against Minato, as I have clearly pointed out.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He even mentions having to be careful where he sent it, as if deciding between multiple spots.

lol

The decision was to send it to a "non-populated" area. Any speculation above and beyond that is baseless. Make up whatever reasons you want: they aren't canon.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
All 3 are stronger than Minato. I'm done with this fanboyish argument.

All three ARE stronger than Minato. But they lose to him due to Minato's more potent jutsus, techniques, and brains.

It was never in question that all of them were more powerful ninjas than Minato. I never disagree with that. It was the idea that they could defeat Minato in combat that was the question. Minato is the best 1 v 1 fighter in the series, easily. No one can defeat him, 1 v 1.

No one from the past, no one now. Maybe. Just maybe the sage of six paths could defeat Minato.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
1. Point: Sharingan can track the movements of several shuriken flying through the air and allows them to keep multiple targets recorded in their mind. Minato's kunai will not be that hard to find and so he will have all his points covered in some way.

2. It can be both. Chakra absorption is the most useful ability against Bijuu but Tobi knows that Naruto is familiar with it, so he neglects it. Really, he doesn't have to but he can choose whether he wants to use the Paths powers or not.

3. Yeah, Minato will insta-kill Madara because Madara is susceptible to speed blitz. Which is why he blocked an attack from A. Keep in mind, Minato's takes the more round about way of needing to throw a kunai at Madara first. A kunai he can choose to block, repel, whatever. And oh, I'm sorry. I thought this was going to be like the Tobi fight, where we don't give them info. How will Minato know what the flower does? Particularly while Madara is keeping him busy?[B]

4. Since he physically restrained the Kyuubi, he is >Kyuubi.

5. Indeed, I put equal because Minato technically stopped the Kyuubi and Tobi. Unfortunately for him, he ended up on the dead side of the fight while Tobi was free to do whatever. And keep in mind, without Kushina, Minato would have been killed by the Kyuubi.

6. The pollen technique is effectively invisible. So no, not all of them. Unless you're giving him full knowledge.

7. Minato does not have the chakra to outlast Hashirama. And if Hashirama uses his genjutsu, Minato might as well just give up.

8. No, it just means that lightning is not instant. And that is fast movement of hands. And...well quite frankly, Hashirama could beat both Bee and A without much difficulty.

1. How does he get rid of all of them without going near them and getting attacked? or trying from a distance to get from a distance and getting attacked unless you think Tobi can do shinra tensei and then phase his body out at nearly the same exact time.

2. This makes very little sense to me. Bee isn't familiar with it yet he hasn't tried it on him. Plus just because Naruto is familiar with it doesn't mean he can't be caught by it. He probably isn't using due to the fact that he can't[B] waste the chakra.

3. A has hit him with an attack that went through susan'o. He does not have to throw the kunai immediately, so i don't know why you keep bringing that up. He can rush him and then throw a kunai near him at close range, unless of course you think Tobi/Madara are now faster than Minato and can also block a close range kunai thrown near them, while having to escape being tagged with a seal and the ground wherever he decides to place them. He doesn't to just travel through kunais.

4. Through special means of his chakra he can control a kyuubi. That does not, in any way, prove that he has more power or chakra than a kyuubi. He also needs that necklace which he no longer has.

5. This is speculation. I could just as easily speculate that without the plot of minato trying to save his wife and child, he would have been more focused on defeating both Tobi and Kurama. Since you know he only got killed by Kurama to save his son.

6. Minato is from the leaf village in the time Hiruzen, Jiraiya, Tsunade. Do you really think he has never heard of this technique from any of them?

7. It's funny how you think that everyone of theses guys has infinite chakra reserves and yet you also believe that Minato has very little chakra. Hashirama does have genjutsu from what I have read on the wikia, but so what, Tobi should have genjutsu as well, and he didn't use it. In fact I think he has only used genjutsu against Konan so it's not like it's a big thing for him.

8. Okay, what does this prove? That Hashirama is roughly on the same level as Minato, since you know, he handled A and bee easily as well.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It was never in question that all of them were more powerful ninjas than Minato. I never disagree with that. It was the idea that they could defeat Minato in combat that was the question. Minato is the best 1 v 1 fighter in the series, easily. No one can defeat him, 1 v 1.

No one from the past, no one now. Maybe. Just maybe the sage of six paths could defeat Minato.

Hell, some people couldn't beat him 2 on 1. lol

Yea like Izumo and Kotetsu, those two sucks!!!!!

dadudemon does some good pot.

Originally posted by NemeBro
dadudemon does some good pot.

Get your own material:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Woah. No need to go off the deep-end into "what the **** is that guy smoking?" land.

uhuh

Shut up gaybo.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Shut up gaybo.

NemeBro, the 90s called: they want their homophobic insults back.