Originally posted by Sundipped
The Phoenix is exactly what you said it isn't. 🤨
You want Big G to deal with her but he's been 1 shot by Rachel already. He better not approach her hungry. That's for sure.
Actually she never one shotted him.
The only time they fought, was when the PF was in control of Rachel's body and Galactus was hungry and about to eat a world.
The other time they encountered each other was when he came to Earth and wanted to separate her from the PF. Rachel toyed with his herald, Nova, then finally slingshotted her into Galactus using her TK. This temporarily KOed Nova and knocked Galactus over. He got up and then the fight was interrupted by Meggan.
Rachel finally just decided to let him do what he wanted to do to her but said she was only doing it for the sake of the planet (as an all out war with Galactus on Earth would wreck it), she even told Nova to take a hint from her Master and shut her mouth and stop "crowing" before she changes her mind and decides it's Galactus that has to go.
I agree with the other poster, Rachel was jobbing because she was put on a team. Her showings are all over the place.
We have examples of this all the time. You put an uber powerful character like an avatar of the pf force( jean jobbed to mags), silver surfer failing to put down attuma with help from namor and freaking strange, doc strange on a team, Colossus or Cain on a team, even Thor himself with the avengers... and they job like crazy due to the plot. You have to make the less powerful members look useful.
Originally posted by zopzop
Actually she never one shotted him.The only time they fought, was when the PF was in control of Rachel's body and Galactus was hungry and about to eat a world.
Orealy? What else would you call this?
Don't misinterpret these scans. She no sold his cosmic vision then wrecked him:
Originally posted by zopzop
The other time they encountered each other was when he came to Earth and wanted to separate her from the PF. Rachel toyed with his herald, Nova, then finally slingshotted her into Galactus using her TK. This temporarily KOed Nova and knocked Galactus over. He got up and then the fight was interrupted by Meggan.Rachel finally just decided to let him do what he wanted to do to her but said she was only doing it for the sake of the planet (as an all out war with Galactus on Earth would wreck it), she even told Nova to take a hint from her Master and shut her mouth and stop "crowing" before she changes her mind and decides it's Galactus that has to go.
Galactus' comments concerning Phoenix outweighs all of this. Grand acknowledgement of it being a destructive force. He compared his sustenance to something that could obliterate the source of his sustenance.
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4300/excalibur02520hz1.jpg
It was even explained by the Watcher that this kind of tampering would inevitability bring about his destruction. Conclusion : The Phoenix Force can purposely or inadvertently end Big G. Also as you can see above, a head up confrontation wouldn't end so well either.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Orealy? What else would you call this?
Don't misinterpret these scans. She no sold his cosmic vision then wrecked him:
This doesn't contradict what I said :
a) It wasn't Rachel, it was the PF in control of Rachel's body (because Rachel's mind was healing itself)
B) Galactus was hungry
C) She didn't one shot him
The only point open to debate would be (C) because it looks like he was blocking an attack from the PF in the fourth scan.
Galactus' comments concerning Phoenix outweighs all of this. Grand acknowledgement of it being a destructive force. He compared his sustenance to something that could obliterate the source of his sustenance.http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4300/excalibur02520hz1.jpg
It was even explained by the Watcher that this kind of tampering would inevitability bring about his destruction. Conclusion : The Phoenix Force can purposely or inadvertently end Big G. Also as you can see above, a head up confrontation wouldn't end so well either.
Again, this doesn't contradict what I said. Rachel herself told Nova to shut up and not brag or she'd change her mind and decide it's Galactus that has to go. Rachel didn't want to fight Galactus, not because she feared him, but because she didn't want to endanger the planet as a result of her battle.
Originally posted by Sundipped
It was even explained by the Watcher that this kind of tampering
would inevitability bring about his destruction.Conclusion : The Phoenix Force can purposely or inadvertently end Big G.
The only one that was going to end that day in that story was the Phoenix Force,
which Galactus was going to erase from existence,
and indeed, began to do so (the stars were fading as a result)
but then G stopped, after being advised by the Watcher & Death.
At no time ever did the PF ever become a threat to Galactus.
In fact, it was clearly stated that Galactus along with Death and any other sentience that does not need stars to survive,
would continue on existing without any need for any PF.
The only draw back is that there would be no natural stars,
since Eternity/Infinity gave that job to the PF.
Meh, means little when these beings can simply create their own stars.
I remember when the consciousness of an alternate universe left its native part of the Multiverse,
and decided to make camp in the neighboring void.
That entire alternate reality collapsed (no space/time)
and still the evolved humans of Earth created a protective shield around the Earth,
giving them light, air and the essentials to sustain a functioning world.
No need for the PF, and while this alternate reality is within the totality of Eternity,
as we can see,
if you have the power,
you can sustain your own reality without directly involving even Eternity.
Originally posted by zopzop
This doesn't contradict what I said :
a) It wasn't Rachel, it was the PF in control of Rachel's body (because Rachel's mind was healing itself)
B) Galactus was hungry
C) She didn't one shot himThe only point open to debate would be (C) because it looks like he was blocking an attack from the PF in the fourth scan. [/B]
a) It was indeed Rachel still operating with a conscience. Having the presence of mind to destroy Gs feeding utensils & save Earth. The Force itself isn't concerned with Earth in the least other than to find a host. You see the state the entity is in currently? Its not in reasoning mode. Only a destructive one.
b). Never denied that.
c). Right after I told you not to misinterpret, you did. 😬
What you thought was an attack was only merely a flare up. Big G raised his hand as a defensive measure in anticipation of an attack but there wasnt one.
Originally posted by zopzop
Again, this doesn't contradict what I said. Rachel herself told Nova to shut up and not brag or she'd change her mind and decide it's Galactus that has to go. Rachel didn't want to fight Galactus, not because she feared him, but because she didn't want to endanger the planet as a result of her battle. [/B]
👆 Cool. No complaints.
Originally posted by Mr Master
You got that mixed up good friend.The only one that was going to end that day in that story was the Phoenix Force,
which Galactus was going to erase from existence,
and indeed, began to do so (the stars were fading as a result)
but then G stopped, after being advised by the Watcher & Death.At no time ever did the PF ever become a threat to Galactus.
In fact, it was clearly stated that Galactus along with Death and any other sentience that does not need stars to survive,
would continue on existing without any need for any PF.The only draw back is that there would be no natural stars,
since Eternity/Infinity gave that job to the PF.Meh, means little when these beings can simply create their own stars.
I remember when the consciousness of an alternate universe left its native part of the Multiverse,
and decided to make camp in the neighboring void.
That entire alternate reality collapsed (no space/time)
and still the evolved humans of Earth created a protective shield around the Earth,
giving them light, air and the essentials to sustain a functioning world.No need for the PF, and while this alternate reality is within the totality of Eternity,
as we can see,
if you have the power,
you can sustain your own reality without directly involving even Eternity.
All of this is true.
The Watcher just made it seem over dramatic with the comments:
"To condemn the Cosmos to ultimate extinction, and yourself to an eternity in an infinite void wherein exists not the smallest potential for life."
"Can you even endure such desolation"?
At first glance it would appear that G would be ass out of options due to his change of mind but as has been documented in the past as well as after this arc that's not the case. Due to what you just explained + his ability to feed off of other power sources such as hyperspace & Hell.
Perhaps I should retract my statement and change it to:
The PF can inadvertently obliterate the primary source of his sustenance.
I am not convinced the Force itself would die from the unbinding procedure with its host. More along the lines of the Host, Pershing. And since the bonding of the force/host plays a natural role in the cosmos, unbinding goes against the nature of the cosmos with extreme consequences.
The Death of all known stars. Regardless if other entities have the power to recreate them, its unnatural, and in doing unnatural changes upsets the order of cosmic consonance.
Originally posted by "Id"I am not convinced the Force itself would die from the unbinding
procedure with its host. More along the lines of the Host, Pershing.
And since the bonding of the force/host plays a natural role in the
cosmos, unbinding goes against the nature of the cosmos with
extreme consequences.
"That Child (Rachel Summers) is Phoenix,
Living embodiment of one of the Primal Forces,
you can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death"
When Galactus intended to separate the Force from Rachel,
he inadvertently began erasing the Phoenix Force from existence!
Because it was killing Rachel, and thus killing the Force as well.
At-least in this story, that's how it went.
Due to Claremont merging the Force fully with Rachel.
Originally posted by "Id"The Death of all known stars.
Regardless if other entities have the power to recreate them,
its unnatural, and in doing unnatural changes upsets the order of cosmic consonance.
Beyond this, there are many characters with universal and beyond
influence that can create their own stars, or turn them out just the same.
Like crazy Jamie B. did
when he turned all the stars in an alternate universe into snow flakes ...
(in order to turn off Havok's power which came from Stellar Energy at the time)
"No more Stars ... means No more Steller Energy"
Just sayin, there are many examples but you get my drift I'm sure.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I have to disagree here friend.
It was made clear by Roma that separating the PF from Rachel was
impossible since they were one and the same at that time."That Child (Rachel Summers) [b]is
Phoenix,
Living embodiment of one of the Primal Forces,
you can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death"When Galactus intended to separate the Force from Rachel,
he inadvertently began erasing the Phoenix Force from existence!
Because it was killing Rachel, and thus killing the Force as well.At-least in this story, that's how it went.
Due to Claremont merging the Force fully with Rachel.It's already been done though, and nothing's been upset.
That aside, there are many realms outside of space/time that sustain themselves,
and pocket realities within space/time that so as well.Beyond this, there are many characters with universal and beyond
influence that can create their own stars, or turn them out just the same.
Like crazy Jamie B. did
when he turned all the stars in an alternate universe into snow flakes ...(in order to turn off Havok's power which came from Stellar Energy at the time)
"No more Stars ... means No more Steller Energy"
Just sayin, there are many examples but you get my drift I'm sure. [/B]
We've already been through this so many times. Galactus' machine as he stated was created for the sole purpose of removing the Phoenix Force from Rachel(Phoenix)
At no point did the comic state that the Phoenix Force was being erased or dying. At no point.
That is your preferred interpretation of a scene that does not support that viewpoint at all.
As you rightly pointed out, the cosmics said that Rachel is Phoenix, it her nature to be one with the Phoenix so to try and sever that bond was against the natural order. The Force is the power source of the stars, by disrupting the Forces tie to reality(Rachel) Galactus made the stars start to fade.
That is ALL
By canon, both before and after this event the Phoenix Force is said to be totally indestructible. Not in a superman fashion, but truly indestructible where it can be shattered, absorbed by an energy user and wielded for a purpose, or even used by machinery for a task and the Force will come out the other end, reform and be completely unharmed. True indestructibility.
As for Rachels fight against Thor, she merely dived into the fray and flung a psi-bolt at Thor and he re-directed it.
That does not mean that Thor is therefore likely to win in a fight against Rachel Phoenix. Thats clearly CIS.
Given Rachels showings in combat and in using her Phoenix abilities in a battle free from CIS/PIS she should stomp Thor 10/10.
In character though being totally brash and over confident in her power, she could lose a couple by racing into battle with little thought for the capabilities of her component. 8/10 😉
Originally posted by GalacticStormWe've already been through this so many times. Galactus'
machine as he stated was created for the sole purpose of removing
the Phoenix Force from Rachel(Phoenix)At no point did the comic state that the Phoenix Force was being erased or dying. At no point.
Oh, since you landed on a particular interpretation,
it's supposed to be the right one? 🙂
The PF was dying, simple.
Galactus's intention was to separate the PF from Rachel,
but as clearly stated by Roma, that was impossible.
Because they were one and the same.
That fact might've changed later in the future,
but in that Claremont run Rachel and the PF were one.
In fact, Rachel was ...
"That Child (Rachel Summers) is Phoenix,
Living embodiment of one of the Primal Forces,
[i]Originally posted by GalacticStormThat is your preferred interpretation of a scene that does not support that viewpoint at all.
As you rightly pointed out, the cosmics said that Rachel is Phoenix,
it her nature to be one with the Phoenix so to try and sever that
bond was against the natural order. The Force is the power source
of the stars, by disrupting the Forces tie to reality(Rachel) Galactus
made the stars start to fade.That is ALL
That is ALL!
The only truth here is in bold,
the rest is a mixture of half-truths and fallacies.
Originally posted by GalacticStormBy canon, both before and after this event the Phoenix Force is
said to be totally indestructible. Not in a superman fashion, but truly
indestructible where it can be shattered, absorbed by an energy
user and wielded for a purpose, or even used by machinery for a
task and the Force will come out the other end, reform and be
completely unharmed. True indestructibility.
As for the thread:
stoned
Originally posted by Mr Master
We can be through this so many times and what?Oh, since you landed on a particular interpretation,
it's supposed to be the right one? 🙂The PF was dying, simple.
Galactus's intention was to separate the PF from Rachel,
but as clearly stated by Roma, that was impossible.Because they were one and the same.
That fact might've changed later in the future,
but in that Claremont run Rachel and the PF were one.In fact, Rachel was ...
"That Child (Rachel Summers) [i][b]is
Phoenix,
Living embodiment of one of the Primal Forces,That is your preferred interpretation of a scene that does not support that viewpoint at all.
That is ALL!
The only truth here is in bold,
the rest is a mixture of half-truths and fallacies.😆 ...
As for the thread:
stoned [/B]
My point still stands. It is Rachels nature to wield the Phoenix Force. She isnt just a random host in an Emma Frost or Cuckoos fashion, just like Jean, it is part of her powerset to have an affinity to the force. So she IS Phoenix. She isnt the Phoenix Force though my friend 🙂
Phoenix Force powers the stars, its host, Phoenix is its physical anchor to reality, by severing this natural bond, by cuttin off the Forces tie to reality, the stars began to fade.
By canon:
"indestructible and mutable"
True indestructibility.
Can be many Firebird avatars at once, one is not the sum of the Force-
"unextinguishable"
One of its firebird avatars can be absorbed and used to power machinery and it will just come out the other end completely unharmed as it is mutable and indestructible
True indestructibility. Get the superman/brickhouse idea of indestructible out of your head.
Originally posted by GalacticStormMy point still stands. It is Rachels nature to wield the Phoenix
Force. She isnt just a random host in an Emma Frost or Cuckoos
fashion, just like Jean, it is part of her powerset to have an affinity to
the force. So she IS Phoenix. She isnt the Phoenix Force though my
friend
Phoenix Force powers the stars, its host, Phoenix is its physical anchor
to reality, by severing this natural bond, by cuttin off the Forces tie to
reality, the stars began to fade.By canon:
"indestructible and mutable"
That burning biatch has gotten owned plenty of times,
it can come back, it'll be owned again.
"nuff said" ...
Originally posted by Mr Master
As for the thread:stoned
1. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AvsX-Zone032.jpg
2. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AvsX-Zone033.jpg
And
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/WolverineX-men-Zone016.jpg
no apologies! welshypeach
