Originally posted by OneDumbG0Is that what this thread is about, discussing whether or not I analyze fights the same way? Because I don't see the title as being "Are posters consistent in their treatment of Marvel bricks and DC bricks?". All I see is "Superman vs Hulk". You're the one trying to hijack it into something it is not - which is a discussion at length about how objective some posters are or aren't in analyzing matches pertaining to characters that you shove into 'Superman-lite and bricks' categories.
You're so upset that I'm accusing you of being a hypocrite, then explain to me why you're not a hypocrite.
Why? Because you have no arguments. And when you don't? You deflect. Deflect into another discussion. Deflect into a discussions about other characters. Other fights. Deflect discussions even about the posters themselves.
It's ok. Hulk loses. Stop crying, man up, grow some balls and stop trying to hide that fact by bitching about how people are unfair in other threads. If you're so sure of yourself, go into those other threads involving Gladiator, General Lobo or whomever, and attack the posters' viewpoint there, after it's already been expressed and discussed at length.
I won't discuss why Gladiator vs General is a different fight, in a thread that has nothing to do with it. And I won't report you for bait if you make that thread, if that's what you're afraid of.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0So you don't think Superman is too fast for Hulk? Is that why you're going a tirade of "SAY THE SAME IN GLADIATOR VS GENERAL HYPOCRITES!!", because you think Hulk is at that level? Ha. Dumby, how I love reading your moronics.
I haven't silently conceded anything. Your propensity for assumptions here is somewhat surprising. Not in a good way.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your petulance and arbitrary anger is completely misplaced.
😂
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the only one with a sandy vagina here is you.
Didn't care enough to check for typos;
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And how did you react to that insinuation of hypocrisy? By offering a half-hearted admission couched in... "but it's different for Superman because of other things." Don't try to backstep. Proceed with your decension into utter absurdity:
I reacted by plainly addressing the faultiness that such an assertion would bring.
You view this;
"You certainly are bitter.
But just to clarify where I stand and have always stood, I absolutely agree that flight adds an ambiguous element to some of Superman's physical feats.
Logically, it HAS to;
Superman pulling the Earth with Hal's construct harness...obviously he's not standing on solid ground pulling the Earth. And his flight comes from some other mysterious part of Kryptonian biology, not his muscles. So what is going on here? Obviously on a purely physical level it is at least a durability feat that his body can withstand the strain of the harness on him pulling the Earth.
The thing about Superman is, he has amazing strength feats outside of simply pushing or pulling shit in space with the horsepower of his flight behind him."
as half-hearted?
I specifically and emphatically delved into the mechanics of why the popular logic you brought up would be correct.
You're just attempting some mind-boggling, logic expunging witch hunt on the basis that I somehow acknowledged possible criticism you brought forth and yet still continued on about how it is completely moot with regards to the actual stance I had the whole time; that Superman has 'limitless' strength just as Hulk does(certainly not the first thread I said this).
The way you talk, it would seem as though you didn't even understand is that all I was doing was addressing a certain type of feat--for Superman and Hulk respectively.
How that makes my post 'half-hearted' when the fact that there were other feats for me to talk about the whole time, is a mystery to me. What did you expect to happen, me denounce every feat that ever existed for Supes now? Was that the expectation, which is why you're on this stupid hypocrisy tirade? lol.
Also I never said 'its different for superman because'. You're reading what you want to read. Because, apparently, you think I'm using the questionable World Breaker stuff as the only standard/feats for the hulk. Lol. More on this later.
You haven't offered anything but a completely obvious projection of your own bitterness onto me.
I'm projecting my bitterness, when you are the one making flaccid posts like this?;
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yeah, that's what people said about nearly all of Superman's impressive strength feats which almost invariably involve flight save for one or two feats. Forgive my disbelief.Let's change "Hulk strongest there is!!!" to "Hulk most energy projectiony there is!!!"
🙄
and completely misunderstood/didn't bother to read the stance I put down in the thread before you ever in inserted yourself here? (e.g. thinking that I was arguing that Hulk is weaker muscular wise than Superman) Not to mention, I was the one posting in an even tone, and you were the one who decided to quickly escalate it with hollow insults that had no substance to back them up. Yeah, I'm the bitter one.
My stance isn't neutral. It's a stance that pokes at your own farcical attempt at fair handedness.
Well your stance certainly attempts, and you attempt a lot of things, but it of course failed. Especially when you don't even thoroughly read before engaging in the argument that you decided to auto-fill in on intuition. 🙂
Amply demonstrated by your constant attacks on Hulk's feats and defenses of Superman's.
My dear idiot. If you read this thread carefully, you would understand the only Hulk related feat I was even addressing the entire time was the only one being PRESENTED. The World Breaker stuff.
Your attempted critique of my stance already fell to pieces anyway, as I already denounced certain types of Superman feats as purely strength feats as well. You're just trying your best to salvage that mode of attack.
All that really remains is you trying to scream/prove bias on my part, but, well, that's kind of a fool's errand isn't it? NO SHIT I'm biased sherlock. That, of course, does not mean anything with regards to attempting to being fair within the bottom line.
Since I'm on the Superman side, but hold that they are equal strength wise, that would naturally mean that some of my posts would be of the vein of arguing specific Hulk feats as NOT superior to specific Superman feats, yes? That could certainly give the impression of a lack of 'fair handedness'--at least if you miss/ignore the context of ultimately arguing that they are equal, on top of ultimately arguing against certain feats on my OWN side as well. Such wondrous mechanics in debating. I don't blame you for your confusion.
Now, I want you to reason something out here. Read back through the thread, notice that I asserted that I view Hulk and Superman as both 'limitless' in strength.
Reconcile this for me, HOW could I come to that conclusion, if all you see from me is that I'm criticizing a feat of Hulk's in comparison to Superman's? Very simple. BECAUSE I KNOW HULK HAS OTHER, BETTER FEATS. It's very simple, really, try to think a bit harder next time ok?
No, you haven't. You just acted like you believe in this flight-assisted strength theory while completely dismissing it by vague allusions to "other Superman feats."
What the hell are you doing here with this borderline appeal to motive fallacy? This is completely amateur. ‘acted like'? On what grounds can you claim that I 'acted like' I believe this and don't actually believe this?
Furthermore, its pretty sad that I even have to clarify at this point, but it appears you also misinterpreted exactly what I was talking about in regards to 'flight feats'; When there is a situation where he has project himself forward with it, with a weight in-front to push along or behind him to pull. That's it.
You know what's the difference between the earth pulling feat with Hal against Starbreaker's control, and holding up Specter by his cape with Diana? The difference is with the Specter feat, Superman was only using his flight to give him a 'floor' to stand on, but he was still using his upper body to handle the weight. Pulling planets in space has almost entirely to do with having the durability to do so, with flight speed giving the horse power.
You probably convinced yourself into thinking that I had somehow unwittingly wiped out an entire catalogue of his feats with my statement. Lol. no.
And hey, no flight involved whatsoever with containing a miniature black hole with one hand right?
That you refuse to accept carver9's previous posting of a non-gamma energy projection footstep feat is delicious irony. [/B]
There is no irony to taste, I'm afraid. I've been consistent the entire time, while you provided nothing but distractions and opinions/speculation e.g. "i don't think pak was trying to show this".
It is indeed a moron theory. The sarcasm was lost on you. Completely. That's your fault, not mine. I was of the impression that you were smart enough to dismiss such flight-assisted strength feat theories. I obviously was mistaken. Bringing that up did, though, completely uncover your strenuous wriggling attempts to reverse-justify looking past it for Superman though. You bringing up Superman's non-flight assisted strength feats but somehow completely ignoring Hulk's non-gamma projection assisted strength feats washes how exactly?
Predictable. Just as I said. You've taken to barking from the hills as usual about how stupid something is and are able to provide absolutely nothing of substance in attempt to justify your stance. And the sarcasm couldn't have been lost on me, my dear friend. Afterall, I did call your post a 'sarcastic' one,did I not? I'm afraid Sarcasm also doesn't simply mean 'the exact opposite of whatever I said' either. It just has to be a bitter(oho!)comment. You're just not very good at this word play. 🙂
Your claims of hypocrisy were completely misguided from the start, because you tried to project your paranoid selective myopia on to me. That was never the case, because I was NEVER arguing about the Hulk as if the World Breaker stuff was all he had nor it being his 'gold standard' feat wise. Jesus Christ. The majority of this discussion was fueled by your embarrassing level of comprehension of what I was talking about.
Now, allow me to get past the verbal jousting for a second and talk once again about the actual subject of Hulk and Superman.
You are expecting me to hold the shared feat of destroying a planet with an amped-betty as above Superman. But why should I? When Superman fought his Golden Age, Earth Two counter part (who had plenty of pre-crisis level feats as time went on as an arms race with Golden Age Fawcett Captain Marvel btw), their fight was having catastrophic effects on space/time reality and dimensions?
And you're expecting me to concede Hulk's strength as above Superman's because he can shake countries with a step, but lets carry on with that line of thinking, and reveal just how stupid it is.
Thor has never been shown to shake continents with a step yes? You accept that to mean that Hulk is stronger than Thor, yes?
Unfortunately, when you accept a possible meaning of a feat, e.g. "hulk is stronger than thor because of X," you have to accept the underlying implications of these possible meanings. Meaning, apparently, Hulk when he's shaking a continent with footsteps is QUADRILLIONS (just an arbitrarily large but appropriate number) of times stronger than a Regular Thor, AMIRITE?
Hulk must be quadrillions of times stronger than Odin too, right? Since when could Odin shake continents just with a footstep? Hulk is quadrillions of times stronger than Odin, right? Galactus, has set foot on Earth many a time. His footsteps, do they shake entire continents and tectonic plates every time he has taken one? The Living Tribunal. Remember when he fought Nebulos on his planet in the Strange Tales books way back when? Tell me, were LT's footsteps causing catastrophic tectonic plate level damage to the planet? No, right? Hulk is quadrillions of times stronger than LT because of his epic footstep feats, right? Allow me to speak your thoughts for you, No, you don't ****ing agree with any of that. Before you even try to stick a spork in your brain to contort yourself into genuinely accepting what I said and make an even bigger fool of yourself than you have already, let me just tell you that there was some clown who asked Tom Brevoort on his Formspring if the World Breaker Hulk from IH#634 of Pak's final run could challenge Galactus physically. Brevoort's response? Lol. A very succinct "No."
HULK STRONGUST THAR IS. HULK STRONGER THAN ANYONE WHO NEVER MAKE GROUND SHAKE--RIGHT?? What this short-sighted dumbf*ckery of yours failed to account for is the fact that comics are the most inconsistent medium to have ever existed. The physics of a comic world are NEVER stable. They change from writer to writer. Year to Year. Arc to Arc. And hell, even character to character. Hulk shaking a country doesn't mean its takes X strength level to shake a country in Marvel. No. It simply means it takes X strength level for it to be convenient plotwise for HULK to shake a country/continent.
Tell me, why didn't The Serpent, who was strong enough to break Cap's shield with his hands (ridiculous feat), not seem to cause any colatteral damage at all just by walking? At the very least, him breaking Cap's shield should've been a strong enough feat to cause colatteral damage considering the strength it would require. Why didn't Odin (who is > The Serpent), in his Giant form cause any Colatteral damage to the Earth at all when he headbutted Galactus in Orbit? Hell, lets look at the SAME character for a second. Hulk. The Green Scar got amped by an Asgardian Hammer from The Serpent and became Nul. Tell me, why didn't Nul cause the same sort of damage that he did in the beginning phases of World Breaker 'mode'? Why was he able to be ko'd momentarily by a blow from Thor which barely had the AOE to disrupt a city block? Does that mean WBH could ko Nul Hulk just by stepping on his head lightly? Lol. Don't even try to tell me that he didn't get stronger from the amp. Ben Grimm, a middling jobber strong man became powerful enough to best Rulk as Angrir.
The answer; Hulk's AOE effects (and AOE effects in general) are based on what is convenient plotwise, same as Superman's. Why doesn't Superman's footsteps cause country wide shaking? Because that would be f*cking stupid for the plot and his character. It's not as though its a limit, Superman has none, proven time and again, that's why he's Superman.
Hell, lets look at Lobo for a second. The guy has compressed a city into a 'gumball'. That 'gumball' weighing in at trillions of tons. Considering how casually he could handle that much weight in the palm of his hands, wouldn't it be logical to show his footsteps at least being strong enough to shake a few city blocks or something? Oh, but it doesn't does it? Remember when Lobo in R.E.B.E.L.S. a couple of years back slammed down Pulsar Stargrave who's weight was stated to on the level of stars? Tell me, why didn't that destroy the entire ****ing planet? All it did was cause some city block wide damage at best. I mean, Hulk only weighs a little over half a ton right? A star weighs astronomically more, yes? More than even a planet? So how could that possibly happen? Oh, hey, that's right. Comics. 😉
On top of the factors I said physics varied by already in comics, it also seems to vary from company to company. 😉 (And I know at least one of the crossovers implied this as well.)
Now that we've settled that shit. I ask you to come back down to Earth for a second, and lets talk about strength. Take this challenge; Give me something. Give me a number. A quantity in tons. That Hulk can lift that Superman would not be able to. Do it. And if the numbers are too astronomical to comprehend, relate it to the weight of an object. Give me something. Give me ANYTHING that Hulk could lift/manipulate that Superman could not.
You aren't going to be able to provide shit, lets get that out of the way.
You're very quick to label something a 'moron' theory, while of course shouting from atop your hill not offering an argument as to why, yet YOU are the one who has to capitulate to ridiculous shit by taking your own stance of AOE levels of hulk's punches/steps as some strict, direct measure of his strength against others.
We're on the exact tangent I was steering you towards. That you walked blindly into it with personal diatribe and your bumbling contempt was something else I was counting on. You're predictable. Sorry.
Ohhh my what masterful manipulation you've put into work here. You make irritated, boisterous responses full of insult-fueled assertions of such and such being a 'moron theory' and bring no backing of your claim, and then pat yourself on the back because you figured I was going to respond to that bullshit in kind and call you out on something YOU escalated it to that point in the first place? LOL.
Your delusions are quite cute. Not particular bright, in-spite of the image you've cultivated for yourself, but cute.
You're weak. Pathetic. Your entire activity in this thread has presented nothing but dodgy, hollow posts of high-handed insulting with next to no substance being brought forth to your end of the discussion.
And Hulk has crazy non-gamma energy projection assisted strength feats as well. So much for your evenhanded demeanor.
Wonderful. Once again, you demonstrate your own paranoid myopia and project it on me, and completely miss the fact that I KNOW THIS.
Was this so hard to deduce for yourself? Based on the fact that I, firmly believe Hulk is just as strong as Superman, and that this notion has to come from SOMEWHERE, since its not coming from situation where I'm criticizing a specific feat/portrayal?
Jesus man. You consistently come across as a paranoid whining old man who does nothing but moan about how stupid everyone and everything else is, and completely stuck in your ways.
Don't worry. You didn't convince me of anything.
When you're trying to be witty, at least attempt to make a little sense.
Why would I not worry that I didn't convince you of anything when my goal was to convince you of something?
Anyway, enjoyed the verbal sparring. You're definitely the most able Hulk debator I've seen (not saying much considering the crowd though), and I'm far from the best Superman representative, so this was appropriate considering the vast difference in end formidability between the two. Just be glad this wasn't someone crazy like that sadistic Jellyrobes, things would have been far less pleasant. dur
Afterall, how can a being known for 'limitless' strength, high street level (sonic+) reflexes, good (but not untaxable) regen, possibly beat someone known for 'limitless' strength, nanosecond/subnanosecond reflexes, far above planetary level durability, a decent amount of regen of his own, heat vision incalculably hotter than star cores, and absolute zero freeze breath, in a PIS free environment? 🙂
Originally posted by abhilegend
ODG is being dumb again. There, answered.
I don't see where he is being dumb when the same people downgrade Hulk speed or any other Marvel brick speed but upgrades DC bricks speed. It's obvious which people these are. His question is simple, if you can see Superman blitzing Hulk due to fts can you see Gladiator doing the same against the General, Doomsday, and Lobo without being touched. Seems like the question is being avoided.
Originally posted by carver9
I don't see where he is being dumb when the same people downgrade Hulk speed or any other Marvel brick speed but upgrades DC bricks speed. It's obvious which people these are. His question is simple, if you can see Superman blitzing Hulk due to fts can you see Gladiator doing the same against the General, Doomsday, and Lobo without being touched. Seems like the question is being avoided.
I answered already, someone like Gladiator should be able to blitz THE F*CK out of someone like Hulk, if his one little nanosecond fight against Hyperion was actually taken seriously by writers and thought of as his standard.
But unfortunately, Gladiator exists in Marvel.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
I answered already, someone like Gladiator should be able to blitz THE F*CK out of someone like Hulk, if his one little nanosecond fight against Hyperion was actually taken seriously by writers and thought of as his standard.But unfortunately, Gladiator exists in Marvel.
The question wasn't about Hulk...the question was, can Gladiator blitz The General, Konvikt, Doomsday, Lobo, Titus, Grundy, without getting a glove laid on him before they even saw what happened. Gladiator have plenty of speed fts proving he is far faster than light combat wise.
Same for Nova Prime, can he blitz all of these people without getting a glove laid on him.