DC's toughest reality warpers Vs Marvel's

Originally posted by KingD19
First off, your answer has almost nothing to do with the question.

Second, you've got a lot of stuff wrong there.

Namor was around 2-3 years before Aquaman.

Dr. Strange predated Manhattan and the Watchmen by roughly 20 years.

And how is Doomsday debatable? A monster of uncontrollable rage that gets stronger and more powerful? The only difference is that Doomsday is evil and he adapts and becomes immune instead of just getting stronger.

How is Iron Man a clone/copy of Batman? Aside from being rich and geniuses, they have nothing in common. And they aren't the only rich geniuses in comics, there are literally tons of those.

Magneto only debuted a few months after Polaris, and aside from similar powers, is nothing like him.

Thor is not in any way a Superman clone. Sentry and Gladiator yes, but not Thor.

You pretty much stole my thunder...

MARVEL's characters overall are much too powerful to not win this matchup.

Originally posted by operator616
^ Flashpoint specifically portrayed them as separate continuities.

Battle-wise Mxy is well above everyone here except Owen, who even in his post-retcon form was able to achieve omniversal feats (but the down-side to him, is that he's established to be below abstracts who are <<< Mxy). And sure, HoM Wanda may as well exceed Mxy's power, but in a battle, she'd get stomped (just like someone like Tim, despite having multiversal-level warping abilities, would lose against a universal warper). Next comes MoD, who's above high end abstracts, but never showed any kind of casual multiversal level reality warping (he's significantly below Mxy)

The rest, no-one even comes close. Even assuming Legion has access to his most powerful personality (like Moria), she's a casual universal warper but not multiversal. Adult Frankin is established to be Galactus-level. Jamie Braddock is a casual universal-warper (capable of achieving multi-universal feats but not fully multiversal). Proteus gets destroyed in a microsecond (he has no place here). MJJ without his warp, would lose just as well. Destroying and recreating all DC realities in an instant, is well beyond any of those guys abilities.

Even assuming that Mxy goes down, Max even not tapping into his full potential was (potentially) about to destroy the whole omniverse, ZHP could have recreated a whole multiverse (though not on a whim), and Hourman (assuming he has the complete Worlogog) has multiversal level abilities as well (Dharma and bat mite are universal, Tim would lose in a battle, and Pandora is of no use here).

I think this is intended to be a battle, if it's a question who has more raw power, then it'll turn out differently (let me know).

Adult Frankin is established to be Galactus-level

I guess making someone their herald, makes them your equal... 😕

Originally posted by Tony Stark
You pretty much stole my thunder...

MARVEL's characters overall are much too powerful to not win this matchup.

😂

Originally posted by abhilegend
Eh, wikipedia? Here is Stan's interview as a whole.

If you think he was trying to make Thor stronger than Hulk, you might as well conclude that Thor was smarter than reed richards. Do you think that was the case?

Yup, wikipedia. I know it's (rightly) frowned upon for the characters, but Stan's a human and it's just so easy.

And you missed the point, that point being "Stan says a lot of things". Fact is, Stan is not the all-encompassing creative genius he's made out to be and he doesn't have carte blanche on stating the definitive case for 90% of the Marvel universe (as people seem to believe).

If you want to argue that the visual aspect of the red cape came from Superman, knock yourself out. If you can point to a single facet of the actual character of Thor that comes from Superman, I'm genuinely interested in hearing it.

Stay on target, champ. Mr. Fantastic isn't being discussed here.

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
Yup, wikipedia. I know it's (rightly) frowned upon for the characters, but Stan's a human and it's just so easy.

And you missed the point, that point being "Stan says a lot of things". Fact is, Stan is not the all-encompassing creative genius he's made out to be and he doesn't have carte blanche on stating the definitive case for 90% of the Marvel universe (as people seem to believe).

If you want to argue that the visual aspect of the red cape came from Superman, knock yourself out. If you can point to a single facet of the actual character of Thor that comes from Superman, I'm genuinely interested in hearing it.

Stay on target, champ. Mr. Fantastic isn't being discussed here.

Supes is a Thor clone, confirmed.

Originally posted by Mindset
This picture is from 1905.

Supes is a Thor clone, confirmed.

😆

Originally posted by Tony Stark
I guess making someone their herald, makes them your equal... 😕

Franklin didn't make Galactus his herald in the same sense that someone like Surfer is a herald to Galactus. He merely restored him, and he needed child Franklin's power to do so too.

If you just look at the AF-Galactus/Mad Celestials battle you'll realize that they were on the same level. It was outright stated that AF couldn't have taken 3 Celestials. If Galactus was literally his "herald", then Franklin could have handled 3 Celestials with one hand tied behind his back.

If there is any argument to be made that Franklin > Galactus it's the fact that in FF v2/Fantastic Four v4 it was established that Franklin's power decreases whenever he isn't in his own time period, which would mean that Adult Franklin wasn't at full power when facing those Celestials but i doubt Hickman intended it to be that way when he wrote the battle, especially considering that it was Fraction, not Hickman, who was responsible for telling us that detail about Franklin later on.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'll take Gluttony's word with a grain of salt until I see the feat preformed on panel. /shrug

Now, Pandora stated that every time she killed her aspects(which she'd previously perceived as The 7 Deadly Sins), the multiverse essentially collapsed and started anew--similar to the cycle of Ragnarok, but on a much larger scale:
http://i.imgur.com/GqmJqQP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RrXlq3J.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Msw7FPr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3Bxzl3n.jpg

You posted the feat yourself (2nd and 3rd scans). It's all there.

Originally posted by operator616
You posted the feat yourself (2nd and 3rd scans). It's all there.

This is not the same as whimsically/purposefully destroying & recreating the multiverse with a gesture--which she has never done.

Originally posted by Galan007
It was an inadvertent action that resulted from Pandora destroying her alternates.

This is not the same as whimsically/purposefully destroying & recreating the multiverse with a gesture--which she has never done.

I didn't see anything that would suggest that. Where exactly was it stated that it was an inadvertent action?

This is what an aspect of Pandora stated:

http://i.imgur.com/1JnD8iz.jpg?1

"With no more than a flutter of my eyelid i will destroy the multiverse"

And here we see her actually implement her magic to end everything.

http://i.imgur.com/9yzXCYH.jpg

And then come your scans where we seen on panel, Pandora standing over Earth, destroying it, and the destruction eventually goes on and destroys the whole multiverse.

It's pretty clear that Pandora was intended to be the multiversal destroyer/creator, at least to me. And it explains Flashpoint pretty well.

^ Except she(Gluttony) didn't destroy the multiverse--as evident by the rest of the issue taking place withIN the multiverse.

Hyperbole, clearly. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Except she(Gluttony) didn't destroy the multiverse--as evident by the rest of the issue which takes place withIN the multiverse.

Hyperbole, clearly. 👆

It actually didn't take place within the same multiverse hence why the "Baltimore, Maryland" location being written differently.

Look at this scan:

http://i.imgur.com/RrXlq3J.jpg

Notice how they all take place in Baltimore, Maryland? But they are written differently to indicate that each was taking place in a different multiverse (ones prior to the current).

^ I took that as alternate universes, not multiverses.

Considering that the comic made it clear that each Pandora was the destroyer of their respective multiverse (previous ones), im pretty sure that each of those were meant to represent different (previous) multiverses.

And it was confirmed that there were multiverses before this one when Pandora said that "this multiverse is no more perfect than any that came before" (id post the scan but it's taking too damn long to upload, i have access to a very bad network currently; but im sure you have the comic so look it up). Which establishes that those were alternate (previous) multiverses.

There isn't any doubt in my mind that those were meant to represent different multiverses, and each of those Pandora's were directly responsible for destroying them.

Hm, I disagree. I think that comment made by Pandora was simply referencing pre-Flashpoint continuity. Perhaps you'll end up being correct IF further info is revealed, but as of now, all of Pandora's dialogue seems to be suggestive of 'a' multiverse being affected--not multiple multiverses. Imo.

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
Yup, wikipedia. I know it's (rightly) frowned upon for the characters, but Stan's a human and it's just so easy.

And you missed the point, that point being "Stan says a lot of things". Fact is, Stan is not the all-encompassing creative genius he's made out to be and he doesn't have carte blanche on stating the definitive case for 90% of the Marvel universe (as people seem to believe).

If you want to argue that the visual aspect of the red cape came from Superman, knock yourself out. If you can point to a single facet of the actual character of Thor that comes from Superman, I'm genuinely interested in hearing it.

Stay on target, champ. Mr. Fantastic isn't being discussed here.

Not just cape, the whole "Jane foster loves Thor but ignores Don Blake" thing, a weak human identity and being the strongest hero initially. Jim Shooter actually called Thor marvel's superman. But you know better than Stan Lee and Jim Shooter apparently.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well, Stan is the creator of marvel Thor. So I'd take his words over you any day of the week. But this general hypocrisy of Stan's interview on wikipedia being legit but his actual words in a comic being not is hilarious.

Not just cape, the whole "Jane foster loves Thor but ignores Don Blake" thing, a weak human identity and being the strongest hero initially. Jim Shooter actually called Thor marvel's superman. But you know better than Stan Lee and Jim Shooter apparently.

Co-creator (it's a common theme). And I may as well have put giant neon signs around the point of posting that quote, you'd still ignore it.

Flip the wording in your third sentence and, presto, you're the hypocrite. Hence the magic of Stan.

Jim Shooter had no hand in Thor's creation. Besides that, there is no implication in that reference that Thor was MODELED after Superman beyond your own biased extrapolation. I'll take the actual history of the character over your word (!).

So, Thor's romantic relationship defines the character's initial development? Not powersets, origin, physical character design...none of that? Are we also going to ignore the fact that Superman's relationship with Lois Lane is just a comic spin on an old literary trope (it's called a "love triangle"😉?

Dude, you WANT Thor to be modeled after Superman. You ignored everything I actually said in my last reply. I've said before in another thread, I'm fine with being proven wrong. But if you have to do it with any other method than just responding to what I actually say, I'm pretty much done.

Sorry to necro the thread, but I haven't been here in a while and I wanted to revisit this one....I'm in a foul mood 😂

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
Co-creator (it's a common theme). And I may as well have put giant neon signs around the point of posting that quote, you'd still ignore it.

Sorry to necro the thread, but I haven't been here in a while and I wanted to revisit this one....I'm in a foul mood 😂

Originally posted by abhilegend
Wut?

Are you related to carver by any chance? Because you're spouting nonsense pretty well.

So you don't take the words of a writer who had a large history with the character? Nice to know proofs have no effect on you.

Its a facet of the character. Lets see, a weak and timid Don Blake transforms into the Mighty Thor with a lightning strike (fusion of superman and cap marvel) and who is sent to Earth from Asgard by his father (a spin of superman being sent to earth). Sounds similar?

No, but who said Superman wasn't inspired by characters before him?
Why would I want that? Thor is the blandest character you can think of in modern comics. Yeah, your replies are just "Nuh-uh, I don't like this proof so I ignore it." Good job.

Lulz.

So, basically, you're incapable of admitting that you're wrong.

"Wut?" Back at ya.

"Related to blahblahblah" Make your point. Obviously, I'm not Carver.

We're talking about the creation of a character. No, someone who wrote after the fact has no bearing.

See above. No, elements introduced after his creation have no bearing. You were arguing that he was modeled after Superman. That would imply direct correlation between Superman and Thor's character upon his creation. You have yet to make a single point in that regard. The Don Blake tomfoolery didn't exist at his inception.

I don't particularly care about your opinions of Thor. I don't even really like him. But you stated that he was modeled after Superman...just, I dunno...just because. You haven't backed it up, you've been provided with a quote from his "creator" (your words) that explained his creation with no mention of Superman (but you have contradictory quotes, so yours are right and mine are wrong)

You haven't provided any proof that Thor was CREATED with Superman in mind. You have yet to provide a single shred of evidence that the creation of Thor was modeled around Superman.

You dig Superman. Awesome. That doesn't excuse you from the basic rules of debate between two human beings.

To really hone in on what we originally started discussing, I'll say it plainly....no aspect of Thor's CREATION can be contributed directly to Superman. I'll still give you the red cape if it makes you feel better.

Yeah, this isn't worth any effort.

Agree to disagree. I don't know why me repeating Thor's own creator got your jimmy rustled, but I don't give a damn.

Good day to you.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, this isn't worth any effort.

Agree to disagree. I don't know why me repeating Thor's own creator got your jimmy rustled, but I don't give a damn.

Good day to you.

👆 No hard feelings.