Near Death Experience (NDE) and the Bible

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That's because we are not animals.

We are not the product of evolution.

We are of more value than many sparrows (or pigs for that matter).

God would rather an animal lose its life than a human, that's why animals were sacrificed on behalf of humans.

But God does not condone animal cruelty.

[b]Proverbs 12:10
A righteous man regards the life of his animal, But the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.

No, Jesus didn't put demons into pigs.

He simply permitted the demons to enter them so that a human--who is created in God's image, and who is of more value--could be set free from them.

There's a difference. [/B]

[list]Mark 5:6-13
English Standard Version (ESV)
6 And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and fell down before him.

7 And crying out with a loud voice, he said, “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.”

8 For he was saying to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”

9 And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

10 And he begged him earnestly not to send them out of the country.

11 Now a great herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside,

12 and they begged him, saying, “Send us to the pigs; let us enter them.”

13 So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out and entered the pigs; and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the sea.[/list]

So Jesus basically let 2,000 pigs die because demons possessed one man, and I am supposed to believe this is a noble act?

Put down the pipe.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That's because we are not animals.

This kind of thinking leads to great evil. This is why animals are so mistreated by humans. The human ego that tries to set us above the natural world is the closest thing to a real Satan.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
We are not the product of evolution.

Then we do not exist.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
We are of more value than many sparrows (or pigs for that matter).

Again, that evil human ego that takes us out of our place in the real world will be our downfall.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God would rather an animal lose its life than a human, that's why animals were sacrificed on behalf of humans.

Then your god is evil!

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But God does not condone animal cruelty.

Sounds like rationalization.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No, Jesus didn't [b]put demons into pigs. [/B]

True! There are no such things demons, so Bodhisattva Jesus did not put imaginary demons into pigs.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
He simply [b]permitted the demons to enter them so that a human--who is created in God's image, and who is of more value--could be set free from them. [/B]

Dancing unicorns.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
[list]Mark 5:6-13
English Standard Version (ESV)
6 And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and fell down before him.

7 And crying out with a loud voice, he said, “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.”

8 For he was saying to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”

9 And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

10 And he begged him earnestly not to send them out of the country.

11 Now a great herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside,

12 and they begged him, saying, “Send us to the pigs; let us enter them.”

13 So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out and entered the pigs; and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the sea.[/list]

So Jesus basically let 2,000 pigs die because demons possessed one man, and I am supposed to believe this is a noble act?

Put down the pipe.

There you go with the sarcasm again.

Why the anger and bitterness?

Yes, you are supposed to believe that you--and every person reading this post--is of more value than a pig.

Pigs are just animals, but humans were created in the image and likeness of God.

God gave Adam and Eve dominion over this planet and everything in it--including the animal kingdom.

God did not give animals dominion over humans.

Animals don't slaughter and eat humans--humans slaughter and eat animals (I'm not talking about wild animals attacking humans).

Lord Jesus ate broiled fish and honeycomb, so eating animals is not a sin.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There you go with the sarcasm again.

Why the anger and bitterness?

Yes, you are supposed to believe that you--and every person reading this post--is of more value than a pig.

Pigs are just animals, but humans were created in the image and likeness of God.

God gave Adam and Eve dominion over this planet and everything in it--including the animal kingdom.

God did not give animals dominion over humans.

Animals don't slaughter and eat humans--humans slaughter and eat animals (I'm not talking about wild animals attacking humans).

Lord Jesus ate broiled fish and honeycomb, so eating animals is not a sin.

...and millions of animals suffer because of this ignorance. Why the anger and bitterness? I am always angry and bitter towards evil.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
...and millions of animals suffer because of this ignorance. Why the anger and bitterness? I am always angry and bitter towards evil.

No, millions of animals suffer because of negligence by people who are not righteous.

God does not condone animal cruelty.

He says in His Word,

Proverbs 12:10
A righteous man regards the life of his animal, But the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.

Did you see that?

A righteous man regards the life of his animal.

So the converse is true.

An unrighteous man does not regard the life of his animal.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[b]No, millions of animals suffer because of negligence by people who are not righteous.

God does not condone animal cruelty.

He says in His Word,

Did you see that?

A righteous man regards the life of his animal.

So the converse is true.

An unrighteous man does not regard the life of his animal. [/B]

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There you go again judging people. You have no right to judge people you do not know.

Who have I judged?

The unrighteous?

I think it is your own conscience (given to you be God) which convicts you.

Again, the Bible said it not me.

You really need to learn how to distinguish between what I say, and what the Bible says.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Who have I judged?

The unrighteous?

I think it is your own conscience (given to you be God) which convicts you.

Again, the Bible said it not me.

[b]You really need to learn how to distinguish between what I say, and what the Bible says. [/B]

You have separated the world into righteous and unrighteous. That is a judgment that you are not qualified, or have the authority to make.

So, every time I say you are wrong it is my "conscience (given to you be God)" that is convicting me? So, you can never be wrong. That is psychotic.

So, you never take responsibility? That is why you can never learn.

All I see is what you say. Please leave the bible out of our conversation. I cannot debate a book or video, unless you are the person who wrote it or made it.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[b]No, millions of animals suffer because of negligence by people who are not righteous.

God does not condone animal cruelty.

He says in His Word,

Proverbs 12:10
A righteous man regards the life of his animal, But the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.

Did you see that?

A righteous man regards the life of his animal.

So the converse is true.

An unrighteous man does not regard the life of his animal. [/B]

So the righteous man is good to animals, except when someone is possessed by demons, in which case **** em, 2000 of them can die?

Jesus, Son of God is so powerful, he gave demons permission to murder pigs en masse instead of you know, just forcing them to go back to Hell?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
So the righteous man is good to animals, except when someone is possessed by demons, in which case **** em, 2000 of them can die?

Jesus, Son of God is so powerful, he gave demons permission to murder pigs en masse instead of you know, just forcing them to go back to Hell?

I don't know about you but I happen to like bacon.

But, more importantly, I'd rather 2,000 pigs die than see you or your loved one running around a cemetery naked, screaming and hollering, and out of your mind because you are demon-possessed.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You have separated the world into righteous and unrighteous. That is a judgment that you are not qualified, or have the authority to make.

So, every time I say you are wrong it is my "conscience (given to you be God)" that is convicting me? So, you can never be wrong. That is psychotic.

So, you never take responsibility? That is why you can never learn.

All I see is what you say. Please leave the bible out of our conversation. I cannot debate a book or video, unless you are the person who wrote it or made it.

Once you again you have failed to discern that I am not the one who has separated the world into righteous and unrighteous--but God.

You are either a child of God, or a child of the devil.

There is nothing else.

Lord Jesus said to the Pharisees and other Jews of His time,

John 8:44
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

So, God said it not me.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't know about you but I happen to like bacon.

But, more importantly, I'd rather 2,000 pigs die than see you or your loved one running around a cemetery naked, screaming and hollering, and out of your mind because you are demon-possessed.

Why couldn't Jesus save him without condemning 2000 pigs to die? Those pigs didn't feed a starving community; they just plunged to their deaths to save one guy.

Why couldn't Jesus do this without unnecessary sacrifice?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Why couldn't Jesus save him without condemning 2000 pigs to die? Those pigs didn't feed a starving community; they just plunged to their deaths to save one guy.

Why couldn't Jesus do this without unnecessary sacrifice?

Why ask why about everything God does?

Why not just be thankful for however He choses to do whatever He does in a given situation?

God is smarter than me.

God is smarter than you.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Once you again you have failed to discern that I am not the one who has separated the world into righteous and unrighteous--but God.

There is only you talking to me.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are either a child of God, or a child of the devil.

What a stupid philosophy. This way of thinking can lead to you being manipulated by other people.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There is nothing else.

Goodbye.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So, God said it not me.

Start taking responsibility for all things in your life.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is only you talking to me.

What a stupid philosophy. This way of thinking can lead to you being manipulated by other people.

Goodbye.

Start taking responsibility for all things in your life.

So, we are on equal footing.

The believer and the unbeliever.

Actually the advantage the believer has is the world around him.

It came from somewhere, and no it was not a chaotic event.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why ask why about everything God does?

Why not just be thankful for however He choses to do whatever He does in a given situation?

God is smarter than me.

God is smarter than you.

Asking questions is what smart people do. They try to learn more about the world and about themselves. If you think this guy is the son of God, and you don't ask questions about his actions, what makes you any better than some cult follower? I'm sure some people in North Korea don't question their leader either; is this a good thing?

I asked you, as a person, a very basic question: why would Jesus not spare the lives of the pigs if he could? Are they not also his creations? Are pigs also not capable of attachment, of caring, of intelligence? It is one thing to say they do not have the same innate worth as a human being, but to say that they have almost no value and should be butchered en masse is ridiculous. Especially without the idea of say, necessary consumption; eat 2000 pigs or a village dies.

JIA, you appear to be happy and comfortable in your faith. But we are not of the same mindset. Why do you continually attempt to persuade us or challenge us with the same religious arguments we've seen for years? If "I can't explain; therefore, Christ is legit" is your modus operandi, whatever. But if you continue to keep pushing it here, I will call you out on the stuff that doesn't make sense.

Some of us have higher standards when it comes to proof.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
So the righteous man is good to animals, except when someone is possessed by demons, in which case **** em, 2000 of them can die?

Jesus, Son of God is so powerful, he gave demons permission to murder pigs en masse instead of you know, just forcing them to go back to Hell?

I don't think the demons murdered the pigs.

Remember, the demons asked Lord Jesus for permission to enter the pigs so that they wouldn't have to go out into the abyss.

(Click http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%208:26-38&version=NKJV)

Demons want/need a body to exercise a measure of authority on this planet.

They really want a human, but they will settle for an animal.

I think that the pigs were just reacting to the presence of demons.

They didn't like it so they committed suicide.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Asking questions is what smart people do. They try to learn more about the world and about themselves. If you think this guy is the son of God, and you don't ask questions about his actions, what makes you any better than some cult follower? I'm sure some people in North Korea don't question their leader either; is this a good thing?

I asked you, as a person, a very basic question: why would Jesus not spare the lives of the pigs if he could? Are they not also his creations? Are pigs also not capable of attachment, of caring, of intelligence? It is one thing to say they do not have the same innate worth as a human being, but to say that they have almost no value and should be butchered en masse is ridiculous. Especially without the idea of say, necessary consumption; eat 2000 pigs or a village dies.

JIA, you appear to be happy and comfortable in your faith. But we are not of the same mindset. Why do you continually attempt to persuade us or challenge us with the same religious arguments we've seen for years? If "I can't explain; therefore, Christ is legit" is your modus operandi, whatever. But if you continue to keep pushing it here, I will call you out on the stuff that doesn't make sense.

Some of us have higher standards when it comes to proof.

As I aforesaid, I happen to like bacon (en masse too).

No, you have a double standard when it comes to proof, not a higher standard.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't think the demons murdered the pigs.

Remember, the demons asked Lord Jesus for permission to enter the pigs so that they wouldn't have to go out into the abyss.

(Click http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%208:26-38&version=NKJV)

Demons want/need a body to exercise a measure of authority on this planet.

They really want a human, but they will settle for an animal.

I think that the pigs were just reacting to the presence of demons.

They didn't like it so they committed suicide.

Why would Jesus allow demons to do anything?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So, we are on equal footing.

The believer and the unbeliever.

Actually the advantage the believer has is the world around him.

It came from somewhere, and no it was not a chaotic event.

You are not a believer and I am not an unbeliever. That is a judgment that you CANNOT make.

I didn't understand the rest.