Originally posted by Sin I AM
The instances you mentioned are circumstantial and beyond hulls ability to replicate..
WWH straight up stopped him, War Hulk stopped him while amped by celestial tech but there was no indication that it was anything other than strength used. Further there are many many more times than Juggernaut has been hurt. Many of which are easily replicable and exceedable by WBH as seen below
Note that Even 8th day juggy was harmed by "pressure points" used by Conquest and punches from Stonecutter.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
All of these feats are by attacks at or below Thanos level (except Phoenix). The strongest attack Juggernaut has taken and tanked is the Godblast. He got KO'ed by the Phoenix, he seemed to get damaged bad by a casual eyeblast from the Stranger when it split, and Onslaught made him look like a normal human. After that no attack even comes close to Thanos level. But let's look at some of the times he's been injured. I will state when he's weakened, but other than that, full power. And this is ignoring New Warriors where some controversy arises.
With that said, let's see if Thanos has the mustard to hurt or knock Juggernaut out.http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MenUnlimited40-39.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MenUnlimited40-40.jpg^
Proof that was Classic
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MenUnlimited40-33.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MenForever5p18.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN322_08b.jpg
^
Proof it was physical
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN322_15a.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN218_14b.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN217_14b.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN217_15b.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN194_13a.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN194_14b.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN102_13b.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Men054p20.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Force03-20.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Force004-0708.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Force004-09.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/WWH_Xmen_3_0025.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/VenomTheMadness03_17.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/VenomTheMadness03_18.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/TASM629012.jpg
^
Showing he was physically damaged and likely physically knocked out by this:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/TASM627023.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Avengers_v3_024_17a.jpg
He stated in the next page he wasn't hurt by this, but we can clearly see him screaming in pain so...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Deadpool_LS2_02_pg18.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/DrStrange-18213.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/DrStrange-18214-15.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/GenerationX061-05.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Hulk404_10b.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Hulk404_14a.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/sm16-17.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Spider-Woman038-10.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Spider-Woman038-19.jpg
Teleportation:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Force004-18.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Force_005-01.jpgEighth Day Juggernaut:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/jug_8th_day_p30.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/jug_8th_day_p33.jpg
Here's his shield being overloaded and him being stunned.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN033_13b.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN033_14a.jpgI'll file these next couple under the "maybe/probably hurt" folder, as well as combine it with talking about how hard Juggernaut was hit section:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MenForever6p02and03.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN217_17a.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN194_11a.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN183_15b.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Force03-19.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderstrike02-16.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderstrike02-17.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderstrike02-18.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderstrike02-19.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Deadpool_LS2_02_pg22.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Hulk403_17a.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Hulk457_11b.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Hulk457_12a.jpg^
He laid there for 5 pages
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Hulk457_16a.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thor_vol2-519-017-21.jpg
And here's two things that indicate a limit to his stamina.
"Last ounce of strength"
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/jug_8th_day_p36.jpg"I can feel him weakening" (also can be filed under probably hurt considering he was weakening under it and was hurt previously by a lesser shot)
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/GenerationX061-06.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/GenerationX061-07.jpgHe was weaker there admittedly (which will flow into the next thing), but not by much. His durability at the time:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/AllNewExilesv1001p18.jpgAnd about how powerful the enchantment was at the time he became Kuurth. Well, let's hear the level it was on:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb14510.jpgAnd his durability that would have simply stacked with Kuurth's.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb14623.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb14624.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb14823.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb14905.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15023.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15024.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15029.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15031.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15032.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15219.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15311.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15315.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15316.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15318.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15319.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderbolts156014.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderbolts157005.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderbolts157006.jpgHere's Kuurth and a stronger dose of Juggernaut than Thunderbolts Juggy got (coupled with Colossus) hurting each other immensely. Which we assume his durability will stack with the above T-Bolts Juggy.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Uncanny_X-Men_543_0010.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Uncanny_X-Men_543_0012.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Uncanny_X-Men_543_0013.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Uncanny_X-Men_543_0014.jpgKuurth was likely to die in the explosion:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Uncanny_X-Men_543_0015.jpgAmped Wolverine:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/FearItself7026.jpgNow here's FP Kuurth getting hurt by Magneto crushing his helmet and seemingly getting hurt by having his blood boiled.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/UCX_0016.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/UXM_542_015.jpg
Thanos wins. "lowball" but needed. At the very least it shows Thanos can damage Juggernaut, unlike the zero high feats that say he can't.
Originally posted by Naija boy
WWH straight up stopped him, War Hulk stopped him while amped by celestial tech but there was no indication that it was anything other than strength used. Further there are many many more times than Juggernaut has been hurt. Many of which are easily replicable and exceedable by WBH as seen belowNote that Even 8th day juggy was harmed by "pressure points" used by Conquest and punches from Stonecutter.
Wwh did not stop him. He used his momentum against him and bfred him
There's no indication that the celestial tech DIDNT amp his strength.
And i wasnt aware Hulk is capable of pressure points.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Wwh did not stop him. He used his momentum against him and bfred himThere's no indication that the celestial tech DIDNT amp his strength.
And i wasnt aware Hulk is capable of pressure points.
WWH did stop him temporarily, but regardless of how you interpreted that scene there are simply too many instances of juggernaut being hurt/stopped/damaged by attacks that can be exceeded by WBH to ignore. As seen in the very long post compiled by Bran.
Yes i agree that the celestial tech amped his strength. Thats the whole point....that it was strength that was used to stop him. Strength that is far exceeded by WBH.
Moreoever lets not get silly, pressure points are a physical attack. If 8th day Juggernaut can be hurt by pressure points...ergo physical strikes, then he can be physically harmed. Moreover the point is moot as he was also harmed by stonecutters...non pressure point strikes as well....again easily replicable and exceedable by WBH.
This enchantment stuff really is an open and shut case.
Originally posted by Naija boy
WWH did stop him temporarily, but regardless of how you interpreted that scene there are simply too many instances of juggernaut being hurt/stopped/damaged by attacks that can be exceeded by WBH to ignore. As seen in the very long post compiled by Bran.Yes i agree that the celestial tech amped his strength. Thats the whole point....that it was strength that was used to stop him. Strength that is far exceeded by WBH.
Moreoever lets not get silly, pressure points are a physical attack. If 8th day Juggernaut can be hurt by pressure points...ergo physical strikes, then he can be physically harmed. Moreover the point is moot as he was also harmed by stonecutters...non pressure point strikes as well....again easily replicable and exceedable by WBH.
This enchantment stuff really is an open and shut case.
Slowing his momentum and stopping him is two different things. If WWH had stopped him then ypur argument would be sound. U could say all day he overcame the enchantment bur he didnt.
Can you prove celestial tech used to funnel his power is less than what wbh can produce? And then again this is still celestial power which should be above elder god.
Pressure point is far more than physical. U make it soumd as if its a mere jab. A nerve strike is similar to super karate..hulk is not replicating that
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Slowing his momentum and stopping him is two different things. If WWH had stopped him then ypur argument would be sound. U could say all day he overcame the enchantment bur he didnt.Can you prove celestial tech used to funnel his power is less than what wbh can produce? And then again this is still celestial power which should be above elder god.
Pressure point is far more than physical. U make it soumd as if its a mere jab. A nerve strike is similar to super karate..hulk is not replicating that
The only thing the Celestial armor did was help Hulk control his power. Are you implying War Hulk is as powerful as WBH?
Originally posted by carver9
WWH stopped Cain. Please continue.
U gotta scan i missed of WWH stopping Cain because Id LOVE to see it.
Originally posted by carver9
The only thing the Celestial armor did was help Hulk control his power. Are you implying War Hulk is as powerful as WBH?
Do you have proof that the celestial armor help hulk control his powers?
Originally posted by Sin I AM
U gotta scan i missed of WWH stopping Cain because Id LOVE to see it.Do you have proof that the celestial armor help hulk control his powers?
Heres what said about the tech. To my recollection, its the ONLY thing that was mentioned. More to do with controlling said energy.
Heres the Hulk and Juggernaut scene.
http://s282.photobucket.com/user/Bontenou/media/WorldWarHulk-X-Men0317.jpg.html
I'm not seeing much of a move, are you?
Proof that Juggy is giving it his all there, please?
It only says Hulk os out for the kill (as dead as you're gonna be).
So a Juggy who may or may not be going at 100% (and we already know Cytorrak only gives a certain part of his power) was enough to make an out for the kill Hulk resort to BFR, rather than beat him to death as he was threatening.
Cool, thanks for the scans.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Slowing his momentum and stopping him is two different things. If WWH had stopped him then ypur argument would be sound. U could say all day he overcame the enchantment bur he didnt.Can you prove celestial tech used to funnel his power is less than what wbh can produce? And then again this is still celestial power which should be above elder god.
Pressure point is far more than physical. U make it soumd as if its a mere jab. A nerve strike is similar to super karate..hulk is not replicating that
Ok now you are being purposefully obtuse. Even if you discount the WWH scene which I will for the sake of not belaboring a tangential point, there are still far too many instances of Juggernaut being harmed for your argument regarding his enchantment to hold any weight at all.
The celestial tech that amped hulks strength demonstrably did not amp it to his World Breaker levels. Featwise WBH far exceeds anything War Hulk ever did strengthwise
Pressure points are an entirely physical attack. It is essentially targeting anatomically vulnerable spots on an opponents body in order to have greater than expected effects. It is still a physical strike, on a physical part, of a physical opponent. It is not entirely strength based and has more to do with precision, but is still and entirely physical attack. Ergo a person who is supposedly immune to physical harm would necessarily be immune to a pressure point strike as well. Thus Jugernaut being affected by pressure point strikes re-enforces the idea that his enchantment can be overcome via physical means. Period. The burden of proof is therefore on you to show his enchantment resisting physical force equivalent to the prolonged beatdown he would be receiving from a being on WBH level
The incident with War Hulk, and Conquest are just two of literally dozens of showings that show he can be physically harmed. Some of those other incidents include 8th day juggernaut getting visibily hurt by the blows from Stonecutter that I have mentioned and to which there has been no response, (another being far far weaker the WBH),to getting physically hurt by dazzler, Nimrod, Nightcrawler, X force, Venom etc etc. The scans I referenced earlier from Bran contain these examples and many more. To deny it at this point is being deliberately recalcitrant.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Proof that Juggy is giving it his all there, please?It only says Hulk os out for the kill (as dead as you're gonna be).
So a Juggy who may or may not be going at 100% (and we already know Cytorrak only gives a certain part of his power) was enough to make an out for the kill Hulk resort to BFR, rather than beat him to death as he was threatening.
Cool, thanks for the scans.
😐
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
After all, Black Panther (with no enhancements) took Cage down, when Proxima Midnight was unable to with her seismic punches.
...And? That in no way obviates the fact that pressure points are still a physical attack. Seriously this is rather indubitable. Physically striking a Physical body part on a Physical opponent is a Physical attack. Not all physical attacks require the same application of strength, and the relationship between the application of strength and damage of a physical attack is not always directly proportional as in case of pressure points vs regular punches. That takes nothing away from the inherently physical nature of the strike....
Originally posted by Naija boyIf Juggs regenerates, then his regeneration would come strictly from another dimension through Cyttorak himself. There is no such thing as overcoming regeneration this way. Even if WBH disintegrates Juggs (the maximum possible way to damage) then how does that stop Cyttorak from regenerating Juggs? One would have to cut off Juggs spirit from his magical source. Hulk doesn't have magic to do that.
Id argue that the efficacy of Juggs enchantment in that instance is the outlier not the norm. The question isnt whether he can die from physical damage since if his enchantment is overcome then yes he will die. The more pertinent question is whether given the history of his unstoppability/invulnerability enchantment, WBH (a being astronomically stronger) is or isnt likely to be able to overcome it in a prolonged one sided beatdown.Now, given that this enchantment has been overcome to varying degrees on multiple occasions (not the point of death, but to the point of ko, physical harm and momentum being halted/reversed) by forces that are ultimately far far less than the total cumulative force output that he is likely to endure in this fight, Im inclined to believe that he will eventually die.
The burden of proof lay with those claiming that his enchantment would essentially hold up in perpetuity from being hit directly with blows whose residual shockwaves disntegrated top tier level beings (heavily amped Fing Fang, Arcmcheddon etc) from miles away. Even the skeleton incident against D'Spayre (which isnt the norm) doesnt come close to establishing that.
In other words, Hulk atomizes Juggs and Cyttorak grows him back. The notion of overcoming that through physical force makes no sense.
But of course, if that's not the norm (which I don't think it is) then that wouldn't be the case here and Hulk easily permanently kills Juggs.
