WW3 Black Adam vs. Thor

Originally posted by CosmicComet
So, he attacks Thor at his nanosecond activated perception speed, and then he stands in place for what will literally feel like minutes to him, or more, for Thor's return attack?

It's basically an admission that Black Adam is allowing Thor a chance to win if he fights like this, not that Thor can win on his own merits, which is why its a funny argument.

He fights the way he's realistically supposed to based on feats. That is the PIS elimination factor.

He fights the way that's in character for him. It's a debate based on the character, not the powerset.

So basically, Adam will stand around waiting for Thor to hit him for what would feel like almost 20 minutes, since he has nanosecond reflexes and thor is at best microsecond reflexes or so at best based on some one-off statement from decades ago.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
So basically, Adam will stand around waiting for Thor to hit him for what would feel like almost 20 minutes, since he has nanosecond reflexes and thor is at best microsecond reflexes or so at best based on some one-off statement from decades ago.

Nope. He just won't fight out of character either.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Black adam would beat thors brains out with his own hammer, and we all know it. But sure, lets say thor in the interest of favoring the more popular character among kmc forum members. It's virtually a kmc tradition.

lol not sure if serious...?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Nope. He just won't fight out of character either.

But how is Thor ever expected to get a hit in unless BA lets him?

This is the type of reflexes differential we're talking about.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
But how is Thor ever expected to get a hit in unless BA lets him?

This is the type of reflexes differential we're talking about.

Why would Adam feel the need to dodge in the first place?

The differential is debatable, tbh. Even if it wasn't, Adam isn't exactly Ali.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
But how is Thor ever expected to get a hit in unless BA lets him?

This is the type of reflexes differential we're talking about.

Homing attacks, massive storms, etc.? And the fact that Thor's shown no trouble hitting people like Hyperion, Gladiator, Sentry, etc. Unless you think they all jobbed to Thor or Thor being able to hit them is PIS?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why would Adam feel the need to dodge in the first place?

The differential is debatable, tbh. Even if it wasn't, Adam isn't exactly Ali.

@Jake too

Why would Adam willingly stand in place and wait for what would feel like 10 to 20+ minutes to him for Thor to initiate a single attack?

Again, you guys rarely seem to understand the issue of speed thoroughly in debates, or, just gloss it over.

Adam is on the nanosecond reflexes level here, and if 1 nanosecond feel like to him what 1 second feels like to us (for simplicities' sake), that means Thor making a counter strike that takes 1 microsecond, is going to literally feel like 16 to 17 minutes to Black Adam. Because 1 microsecond is 1000 nanoseconds.

And this isn't even from low balling Thor either. This is me acknowledging the most clear cut, and possibly best attribution of speed (statement or feat) that Thor's pretty much ever gotten from a writer, literally being told by the narration that he was performing an action in microseconds. Even if its old and inconsistent, whereas Adam's speed is permanently part of his powerset--even if he doesn't always use it for plot's sake.

It's pretty much just working off sentiment here. People go off what 'feels right'. It doesn't 'feel right' to say a big shot top tier like Thor could be stomped by someone like Superman or Black Adam, but really, that's all we have to go by. Feats. That is the only objective way to look at things.

I don't like Black Adam any more than I like Thor, so its not even a bias issue here, its just acknowledging what feats mean.

If this were any other obscure character and not someone popular like Thor, (hell let's say this character isn't even in Marvel or DC at all) who's speed feats were comparable, would anyone argue if someone said Black Adam could speed blitz said character? Probably not, especially if the argument is gotten by feat comparisons--exactly as I'm talking about here. They wouldn't care enough, and it wouldn't 'feel wrong' to say Black Adam could speed blitz said character. But it definitely 'feels wrong' to say Black Adam could do so to Thor am I right? I don't care about what feels what way though, I care about feats.

If there are quantifiable feats or even clear cut statements that can put Thor in Adam's speed and reflexes class that's different, that's doing something objective, but otherwise, its simply sentiment at play here.

and Ali? Strange comparison. Ali's reflexes were not several orders of magnitude greater than his opponents, maybe 25% at best, and that was still enough for him to make a lot of people look like clowns.

Could go either way.

Although i would go with Adam for a majority.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
@Jake too

Why would Adam willingly stand in place and wait for what would feel like 10 to 20+ minutes to him for Thor to initiate a single attack?

Again, you guys rarely seem to understand the issue of speed thoroughly in debates, or, just gloss it over.

Adam is on the nanosecond reflexes level here, and if 1 nanosecond feel like to him what 1 second feels like to us (for simplicities' sake), that means Thor making a counter strike that takes 1 microsecond, is going to literally feel like 16 to 17 minutes to Black Adam. Because 1 microsecond is 1000 nanoseconds.

And this isn't even from low balling Thor either. This is me acknowledging the most clear cut, and possibly best attribution of speed (statement or feat) that Thor's pretty much ever gotten from a writer, literally being told by the narration that he was performing an action in microseconds. Even if its old and inconsistent, whereas Adam's speed is permanently part of his powerset--even if he doesn't always use it for plot's sake.

It's pretty much just working off sentiment here. People go off what 'feels right'. It doesn't 'feel right' to say a big shot top tier like Thor could be stomped by someone like Superman or Black Adam, but really, that's all we have to go by. Feats. That is the only objective way to look at things.

I don't like Black Adam any more than I like Thor, so its not even a bias issue here, its just acknowledging what feats mean.

If this were any other obscure character and not someone popular like Thor, (hell let's say this character isn't even in Marvel or DC at all) who's speed feats were comparable, would anyone argue if someone said Black Adam could speed blitz said character? Probably not, especially if the argument is gotten by feat comparisons--exactly as I'm talking about here. They wouldn't care enough, and it wouldn't 'feel wrong' to say Black Adam could speed blitz said character. But it definitely 'feels wrong' to say Black Adam could do so to Thor am I right? I don't care about what feels what way though, I care about feats.

If there are quantifiable feats or even clear cut statements that can put Thor in Adam's speed and reflexes class that's different, that's doing something objective, but otherwise, its simply sentiment at play here.

and Ali? Strange comparison. Ali's reflexes were not several orders of magnitude greater than his opponents, maybe 25% at best, and that was still enough for him to make a lot of people look like clowns.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions about how Adam sees the world.

Nobody's glossing over anything; you're just trying to argue powerset as opposed to character. Could Adam blitz someone like Thor? Possibly. Would he? That's the question.

It's not sentimentaility in the slightest; it's the desire to accurately portray how Adam would behave in a fight, which is what you seem to be refusing to do (and not for the first time I might add).

And no, my comparison to Ali was not about reflex speed, but rather his willingness to dance around his opponents. Adam isn't that kind of fighter.

I'm not making any assumptions, I'm going off feats.

Black Adam can comfortably maneuver on Earth running at lightspeed. Seeing as lightspeed is fast enough to travel around the equator about 8 times in a single second, that firmly puts Black Adam in the nanosecond level. (light only travels one foot in a nanosecond btw).

So basically, with the 'would he' question, the argument again becomes that Thor's chances of winning rest sorely on Adam's treatment of the fight.

I'm fine with that, because its an admission that Thor has no counter for the speed and can only win if Adam deliberately fights stupidly (extremely stupidly, standing in one spot for what feels like minutes) enough to allow him the chance.

Like I said in the past. Feats are number 1. Not character, despite what the rules say. Because some entity with feats and no dialogue or character statements can theoretically be argued for in a thread vs another character, but a character that has dialogue and an established personality, but no feats, can't in principle be used in threads.

Thor wins.

Even though i think Adam will win a slight majortity, saying Thor isn't fast enough to hit Adam isn't consistent with how both characters have been portrayed.

It really isn't.

You want consistency?

Thor is consistently on par with high street levelers in speed and reflexes.

Black Adam is consistently on par with Kryptonians in speed and reflexes.

Trust me, my argument makes Thor better than what he is consistently, since its a high end statement/feat for Thor.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And yet Thor can and has tagged beings with superspeed before, and that's without considering Mjolnir can do most of the work for him through homing capabilities, massive AoE attacks, and everything else.

If every time someone like Norrin or Teth getting tagged by "someone who shouldn't" is PIS, a low end feat, or jobbing, that same line of thought applies to Thor's capabilities as well. And it shouldn't stop at speed, either. Considering Thor's energy manipulation and absorbing feats, any time he's staggered by a blast or fails to defend against one shouldn't count because we've seen him redirect energy on a galactic scale and nigh instantly at times. And if we do that, we may as well apply it across the board to every character's feats given what we've seen them do on panel with whatever power they're shown capable of.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I'm not making any assumptions, I'm going off feats.

Black Adam can comfortably maneuver on Earth running at lightspeed. Seeing as lightspeed is fast enough to travel around the equator about 8 times in a single second, that firmly puts Black Adam in the nanosecond level. (light only travels one foot in a nanosecond btw).

So basically, with the 'would he' question, the argument again becomes that Thor's chances of winning rest sorely on Adam's treatment of the fight.

I'm fine with that, because its an admission that Thor has no counter for the speed and can only win if Adam deliberately fights stupidly (extremely stupidly, standing in one spot for what feels like minutes) enough to allow him the chance.

Like I said in the past. Feats are number 1. Not character, despite what the rules say. Because some entity with feats and no dialogue or character statements can theoretically be argued for in a thread vs another character, but a character that has dialogue and an established personality, but no feats, can't in principle be used in threads.

In your opinion.

Yet we still argue characters, not powersets. You're making a lot of assumptions, tbh. Incorrect ones at that.

The rules are the rules.

Originally posted by abhilegend
We've argued upon this topic before jake. Speed isn't thor's forte here and if you think he's going to have an easy time based upon his fights against other speedsters though he's almost no noteworthy speed feats of his own, then can I use adam's perfect record in fights and declare him the winner? No one has koed adam in a straight up fight without any plot devices, why should we assume that thor can ko him here?

Did I say Thor has a easy time here? No, I didn't.

I did state that given Thor's capabilities, powers, and reflexes, he's able to tag speedsters, which is true and supported on panel.

I have no issue with the argument that such and such can or has the capability to speedblitz Thor. What I do have issue with is that Thor would be a living statue to said character and would have no means of mustering an attack or counterattack in the fight. It's a falsehood when you look at what Thor can and has done on panel.

And since I didn't say Thor has an easy time here in spite of your claiming the opposite, it makes no sense to apply a no-limits fallacy on Black Adam, which isn't even the subject of contention as far as this discussion goes.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Did I say Thor has a easy time here? No, I didn't.

I did state that given Thor's capabilities, powers, and reflexes, he's able to tag speedsters, which is true and supported on panel.

I have no issue with the argument that such and such can or has the capability to speedblitz Thor. What I do have issue with is that Thor would be a living statue to said character and would have no means of mustering an attack or counterattack in the fight. It's a falsehood when you look at what Thor can and has done on panel.

And since I didn't say Thor has an easy time here in spite of your claiming the opposite, it makes no sense to apply a no-limits fallacy on Black Adam, which isn't even the subject of contention as far as this discussion goes.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Thor has responded to instantaneous attacks you know. Amd your lowballing surfer

You mean this

Then what about all of these

I was referring to zephyr not Phoenix

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I was referring to zephyr not Phoenix

What's so instantaneous about this?