HOTM Hulk vs The Plutonian

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I know they did.

I'm just saying, there are levels of Mindless Ones, obviously. And to say that they are ALL walking on neutron star level durability, shouldn't be said. Otheriwise, well, we can see it happening in the Imperiex probe threads lol. Black Lightning took one down....but 10,000 Daxamites couldn't??

Also, there is Horrificus' point, that the Dark Dimension could be a fodder dimension. Which supports your point as well.

Then there is their Nextwave showings - but do we consider them canon?

To be honest, I see the point you are trying to make but is this entire debate surrounding them is farcical as it unknowingly or willfully ignores what's actually on panel. Yes mindless ones have varying showings, ranging from neutron star tanking (which by the way we the recent mindless ones NOT the classic ones) and Dormammu and Doc strange trouncing, to much weaker portrayals like the blade one etc. The thing is, the writer left absolutely no ambiguity as to the level they were operating at, which was that in conjunction they were powerful enough that Umar ( yes a skyfather with the flames of regency in her own dimension )wouldn't survive them. That's all the information that is necessary without any other showing ( high or low) being needed. It takes the HOTM feat to unbelievably high levels ( without even taking in to account what else happened) but take that up with Pak. This plainly stated fact cannot be circumvented by appeals to weaker showings nor can the mindless ones be retroactively denigrated by these silly appeals. I don't think the next wave showings are canon but honestly they don't even matter. The comic is clear in of in itself. The fact that he accomplished wht he did by punching someone else is unsettling. Outrageous even,with many hard to swallow tier implications. But clear as day.

Moreover, many of the already irrelevant examples being used to denigrate the mindless ones involve them being killed one at a time and such which aside from them being irrelevant makes them not even analogous to the situation in HOTM where hulk wiped out ( litally disintegrated) there entire race simultaneously. Regardless of the level they are at, this would require billions and billions of times the force needed to wipe out just one.

As for th dark dimension the part of it that is mindless ones home dimension is actually denser than earth so it's a bit faulty to characterize it as a fodder dimension. Regardless even that cannot contradict what was explicitly indicated by the writer and portrayed on panel.

As for the fight, Plutonian should win. Much faster

Originally posted by Naija boy
To be honest, I see the point you are trying to make but is this entire debate surrounding them is farcical as it unknowingly or willfully ignores what's actually on panel. Yes mindless ones have varying showings, ranging from neutron star tanking (which by the way we the recent mindless ones NOT the classic ones) and Dormammu and Doc strange trouncing, to much weaker portrayals like the blade one etc. The thing is, the writer left absolutely no ambiguity as to the level they were operating at, which was that in conjunction they were powerful enough that Umar ( yes a skyfather with the flames of regency in her own dimension )wouldn't survive them. That's all the information that is necessary without any other showing ( high or low) being needed. It takes the HOTM feat to unbelievably high levels ( without even taking in to account what else happened) but take that up with Pak. This plainly stated fact cannot be circumvented by appeals to weaker showings nor can the mindless ones be retroactively denigrated by these silly appeals. I don't think the next wave showings are canon but honestly they don't even matter. The comic is clear in of in itself. The fact that he accomplished wht he did by punching someone else is unsettling. Outrageous even,with many hard to swallow tier implications. But clear as day.

Moreover, many of the already irrelevant examples being used to denigrate the mindless ones involve them being killed one at a time and such which aside from them being irrelevant makes them not even analogous to the situation in HOTM where hulk wiped out ( litally disintegrated) there entire race simultaneously. Regardless of the level they are at, this would require billions and billions of times the force needed to wipe out just one.

As for th dark dimension the part of it that is mindless ones home dimension is actually denser than earth so it's a bit faulty to characterize it as a fodder dimension. Regardless even that cannot contradict what was explicitly indicated by the writer and portrayed on panel.

Originally posted by Naija boy
As for the fight, Plutonian should win. Much faster

Originally posted by Estacado
Exactly....It would be like respect Tony cause he banged this chick and that chick and then post pictures of them...

Oh Yeah. Now THAT, is respect, and drop the "T". Respec for Tony.
Goin' places Plutonian style. Bangin' power babes and havin' a male super-villain stalker and hangin' out in high gravity with his freaky new posse.

Plutonian is a Boss.

Originally posted by Naija boy
To be honest, I see the point you are trying to make but is this entire debate surrounding them is farcical as it unknowingly or willfully ignores what's actually on panel. Yes mindless ones have varying showings, ranging from neutron star tanking (which by the way we the recent mindless ones NOT the classic ones) and Dormammu and Doc strange trouncing, to much weaker portrayals like the blade one etc. The thing is, the writer left absolutely no ambiguity as to the level they were operating at, which was that in conjunction they were powerful enough that Umar ( yes a skyfather with the flames of regency in her own dimension )wouldn't survive them. That's all the information that is necessary without any other showing ( high or low) being needed. It takes the HOTM feat to unbelievably high levels ( without even taking in to account what else happened) but take that up with Pak. This plainly stated fact cannot be circumvented by appeals to weaker showings nor can the mindless ones be retroactively denigrated by these silly appeals. I don't think the next wave showings are canon but honestly they don't even matter. The comic is clear in of in itself. The fact that he accomplished wht he did by punching someone else is unsettling. Outrageous even,with many hard to swallow tier implications. But clear as day.

Moreover, many of the already irrelevant examples being used to denigrate the mindless ones involve them being killed one at a time and such which aside from them being irrelevant makes them not even analogous to the situation in HOTM where hulk wiped out ( litally disintegrated) there entire race simultaneously. Regardless of the level they are at, this would require billions and billions of times the force needed to wipe out just one.

As for th dark dimension the part of it that is mindless ones home dimension is actually denser than earth so it's a bit faulty to characterize it as a fodder dimension. Regardless even that cannot contradict what was explicitly indicated by the writer and portrayed on panel.

As for the fight, Plutonian should win. Much faster

I don't totally agree with you, but it spoke to me.
It said:

"The Dark Dimension". Don't go there. It's a big mess.

Originally posted by Horrificus
um... actually a solid argument. Especially the part where you used the word "analogous", where I started to daydream about bacon for some reason.

I don't totally agree with you, but it spoke to me.
It said:

"The Dark Dimension". Don't go there. It's a big mess.

The dark dimension can't be used to demean the feat though. The most impressive part of the feat by far was the destruction ( disintegration actually) of the entire race of mindless ones whose combined power and numbers were such that they could take down a sky father in her own realm ( and since you seem like an old school cat, I'm sure you know that the flames of regency as head of the dark dimension make Umar more powerful). This can't be gotten around. It being in the dark dimension doesn't demean it in any way. Thats without even adding the fact that it was done with NO contact being made ( and that it included the disintegration of other class 100s like Wendigo bi beast arcmheddon and fing fang foom).

The destruction of the dark dimension planet and damaging of moons was merely the icing on the cake. The dark dimension is first and foremost not just one planet but a combination of different realms and from what we see there, the planet hulk destroyed was at least two realms merged ( at least two, I'll be nice and conservative and not make the plausible assumption that the planet encapsulated the entire thing since that's something else entirely), namely the dark dimension proper, and the home of mindless ones. It would not be at all unreasonable to think that it was likely larger than earth. Not only that, The mindless ones realm is actually denser than that of earth and so offsets any presumed fragility....oh and then the shockwave also affected the moons next door ( which takes it up another several orders of magnitude). And just to emphasize again, he was thousands of feat in the air when this happened.

Is it outrageous that Pak blatantly had hulk completely outperform a skyfather in their realm? Yes. Was it probably the biggest bit of obvious fan service in marvel we've ever seen? Yes. Did it reek havoc with the tiers list leaving some Hulk fans ejaculating with joy? Yes. But it was also systematically done to cover all bases, from the flashy wide scale collateral damage, to the presence of hulks old peers, superiors, and even far superiors, to emphasize the gargantuan strength leap. To the presence of Hulk claiming to have been holding back, even in his previously most powerful seen mode. To the outright disintegration ( not mere ko, or even death) of the parties in question. And then finally and for the third concluding paragraph sentence in a row, to the fact that it was done with Hulk being nowhere near the people and things affected.

It was so well done that any attempted denigration was preemptively made to look foolish by the writer himself.

Originally posted by Naija boy
The dark dimension can't be used to demean the feat though. The most impressive part of the feat by far was the destruction ( disintegration actually) of the entire race of mindless ones whose combined power and numbers were such that they could take down a sky father in her own realm ( and since you seem like an old school cat, I'm sure you know that the flames of regency as head of the dark dimension make Umar more powerful). This can't be gotten around. It being in the dark dimension doesn't demean it in any way. Thats without even adding the fact that it was done with NO contact being made ( and that it included the disintegration of other class 100s like Wendigo bi beast arcmheddon and fing fang foom).

The destruction of the dark dimension planet and damaging of moons was merely the icing on the cake. The dark dimension is first and foremost not just one planet but a combination of different realms and from what we see there, the planet hulk destroyed was at least two realms merged ( at least two, I'll be nice and conservative and not make the plausible assumption that the planet encapsulated the entire thing since that's something else entirely), namely the dark dimension proper, and the home of mindless ones. It would not be at all unreasonable to think that it was likely larger than earth. Not only that, The mindless ones realm is actually denser than that of earth and so offsets any presumed fragility....oh and then the shockwave also affected the moons next door ( which takes it up another several orders of magnitude). And just to emphasize again, he was thousands of feat in the air when this happened.

Is it outrageous that Pak blatantly had hulk completely outperform a skyfather in their realm? Yes. Was it probably the biggest bit of obvious fan service in marvel we've ever seen? Yes. Did it reek havoc with the tiers list leaving some Hulk fans ejaculating with joy? Yes. But it was also systematically done to cover all bases, from the flashy wide scale collateral damage, to the presence of hulks old peers, superiors, and even far superiors, to emphasize the gargantuan strength leap. To the presence of Hulk claiming to have been holding back, even in his previously most powerful seen mode. To the outright disintegration ( not mere ko, or even death) of the parties in question. And then finally and for the third concluding paragraph sentence in a row, to the fact that it was done with Hulk being nowhere near the people and things affected.

It was so well done that any attempted denigration was preemptively made to look foolish by the writer himself.