Originally posted by Brockalizer
He didn't fight anybody in Returns. The only time really encountered any violence or combat situations was when he stopped the robbers and was blasted by the gatling gun, or when he was de-powered and got his ass kicked by Lex and his gang. Hardly convincing evidence. He lifted something really heavy and survived a really high fall, so what? Anytime Movie Superman has engaged in combat with others with powers he and his abilities have been less than impressive. If this were the comic book version vs the movie Avengers, then I would agree with you 100% and even call this a spite thread, but it isn't. So we can't apply comic book feats and abilities to the movie version until we see them replicated by the movie version.
In just Returns he showed:
-Bullet-intercepting speed
-Invulnerability
-Planet-drilling heat-vision
-Super senses
-Able to lift billions and billion and billions of tons
He doesn't need to be an expert in MMA to take on all the Avengers, he can crush them all with just basic punches. It stands to reason you need guys in his range-level of power(s) to hurt him, if we include films 1-2, or kryptonite. But continue down-playing Superman, it's funny to see.
Superman wins, people. Thor and Hulk are no match.
Superman feats:
-lifted a huge land mass and threw it into outer space.
-pushed the entire moon out of orbit to cause a solar eclipse.
-flew around the Earth at faster than light speeds to reverse the rotation of the planet.
-took a bullet to the eyeball without even flinching
-flew around Earth to right even the smallest of wrongs at what the news team said was "light speeds".
The only reason Supes got his ass kicked by Zod, Ursa, and Non was because they were ON HIS LEVEL.
Thor and Hulk are not.
Superman throws Hulk into the sun and then proceeds to kill Thor.
Iron Man, Cap, BW, and Hawkeye are not even a threat. They might as well be kittens.
Green Lantern could just as easily do the same, but with his ring powers.
Originally posted by RobtardSo what, reflex speed is not fighting speed. He has never displayed that type of speed in a fight...except in the comic book. Hell, Hulk and Captain America's on camera fighting speeds are much faster than Superman's fighting speed. This would never happen in the comic.
In just Returns he showed:-Bullet-intercepting speed
Originally posted by Robtard
-Invulnerability
Originally posted by Robtard
-Planet-drilling heat-vision
Originally posted by Robtard
-Super senses
Originally posted by Robtard
-Able to lift billions and billion and billions of tons
Originally posted by Brockalizer
So what, reflex speed is not fighting speed. He has never displayed that type of speed in a fight...except in the comic book. Hell, Hulk and Captain America's on camera fighting speeds are much faster than Superman's fighting speed. This would never happen in the comic.
Superman was shown to be flying at "near light speeds", as explained by the news team doing the reports on television.
With Superman's strength, speed, invulnerability, and sheer inertia, all he would have to do is fly into orbit, lock onto Hulk with his telescopic vision, and fly straight into Hulk and turn him into a corpse. Thor, too.
Originally posted by Brockalizer
So what, reflex speed is not fighting speed.
If his reflexes made bullets look like they are moving in slow motion, then Hulk and Thor will also be moving in slow motion to him. There's no evidence that either of them can move even close to the speed of a bullet.
Originally posted by Brockalizer
He has never displayed that type of speed in a fight...except in the comic book. Hell, Hulk and Captain America's on camera fighting speeds are much faster than Superman's fighting speed. This would never happen in the comic.
I could argue stopping the gunmen was a fight. Just a particularly easy one as this will probably be.
And I hope your not implying Captain America is faster than Superman. If your not and admit Superman is infinitely faster, then your point is moot.
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Bullets bounce off, so what did ya notice they also bounced off of Hulk and Thor too? They ain't getting through Cap's shield or Iron Man's armor either. One could argue that the guns they were shot with could be more powerful than the ones Superman has been shot with.
I remember bullets effecting Hulk enough for him to take his attention off Thor, and get really angry at the fighter pilot. Why would he do that I wonder? Obviously the bullets had some effect.
Also Thor tried to avoid the bullets.
Whilst a bullet point blank to the eye did not even make Superman blink.
He also survived a much much larger fall while weakened. His durability is obviously much much greater than Thor and Hulks.
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Not getting through Cap's shield, will just piss off Hulk until he gets pissed enough to power through it, would probably power up Iron Man, Thor would be slowed or stunned, but it probably won't put him down permanently.
Cap's shield is too small to cover his body. Hulk probably wouldn't fair too well either considering what the barrage of alien lasers did to him. Powering up Iron Man is a joke. Lightning is basically electricity. Totally different. I don't remember the alien lasers powering Iron man up one bit.
Originally posted by Brockalizer
He can hear really good and see really far. That will help him against Iron Man, but not so much if Hulk is Loki-Smashing him all over tHe place.
LOL Yeah imagine Hulk going for the Loki smash 100 times slower than how the bullets seemed to Superman.
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Physically stronger opponents lose to more skilled opponents all the time. Captain America is a much better tactician, and Hulk and Thor have more impressive fightings skills.
And yet Captain America despite all his combat skills didn't last too long against Loki.
Thor was no match in a direct brawl for Hulk despite clearly being a far far superior combatant.
And the difference in strength in this scenario is much much greater. Sp strength will matter. Especially when they are all moving in slow motion Lol.
Originally posted by Impediment
Superman was shown to be flying at "near light speeds", as explained by the news team doing the reports on television.With Superman's strength, speed, invulnerability, and sheer inertia, all he would have to do is fly into orbit, lock onto Hulk with his telescopic vision, and fly straight into Hulk and turn him into a corpse. Thor, too.
Or just fly Hulk off into space at Light speed. Lol
Originally posted by Impediment
Also, I won't close the thread unless the thread starter asks me to, or shit just becomes too enitrely silly and/or heated.
I think that's been fulfilled by comments like:
Originally posted by Silent Master
Assuming Superman ever manages to hit the Marvel team, team DC wins.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Too bad that fight showed that Superman's HTH skill is below that of most 3rd graders.This fight is likely to last for several hours.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Barring the eye shot, those are roughly the same as movie Hulk/Thor.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Next, you'll be taking "outdated fight choreography" into account so that you can claim that movie Superman is actually skilled in hth.
Originally posted by Silent Master
👆
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Originally posted by Brockalizer
So what, reflex speed is not fighting speed. He has never displayed that type of speed in a fight...except in the comic book. Hell, Hulk and Captain America's on camera fighting speeds are much faster than Superman's fighting speed. This would never happen in the comic.
Yes, it is. He can fly fast enough to appear from the horizon to block a gatling gun spray, after it started firing. Combat speed. Idiot.
Bullets bounce off, so what did ya notice they also bounced off of Hulk and Thor too? They ain't getting through Cap's shield or Iron Man's armor either. One could argue that the guns they were shot with could be more powerful than the ones Superman has been shot with.
He survived orbital re-entry while weakened and near-death. A much shorter fall knocked out Hulk.
Superman's heat-vision on the other hand could go through steel like butter, and if you count IV, like for some reason you did earlier, can cut a ****ing mountain in half.
Not getting through Cap's shield, will just piss off Hulk until he gets pissed enough to power through it, would probably power up Iron Man, Thor would be slowed or stunned, but it probably won't put him down permanently.
Show me where Cap's shield in the movies is immune to heat. 🙂
It would lobotomise Hulk or Thor, be real here.
He can hear really good and see really far. That will help him against Iron Man, but not so much if Hulk is Loki-Smashing him all over tHe place.
How will Hulk manage this to an opponent who is physically much, much, much, much stronger than him?
Let's use your idiotic lowball logic for a minute.
Norton Hulk is canon to Avengers Hulk.
The same Hulk who could hurt Abomination (A demonstratably superior foe) by punching him with cars, and who got stabbed by a ****ing helicopter blade in the chest.
The bus was thrown by a Kryptonian, and it didn't actually hurt him that badly, if at all.
Physically stronger opponents lose to more skilled opponents all the time. Captain America is a much better tactician, and Hulk and Thor have more impressive fightings skills.
Fat load of good all that skill did against Loki, in Captain America's case. His punches couldn't even hurt Loki. Same deal here.
Originally posted by ImpedimentI would take Hancock, Agent Smith, or Darth Sideous (Episode 3 version) in a straight up brawl against Movie Superman as far as actual on film fighting abilities, but that is another debate for another thread.
Superman is one of the most powerful movie characters around, but I'm not going to ban him from threads. That would be just silly.Also, I won't close the thread unless the thread starter asks me to, or shit just becomes too enitrely silly and/or heated.
Movie Superman can catch a bullet reflexively to save someone, but he can't dodge a manhole cover frisbee tossed at him. He certainly doesn't use his bullet catching speed to dodge punches. When he punches someone or is punched by someone else with his powerset, and has no reason to hold anything back from those punches, the force generated is only enough to send the opponent crashing through a concrete wall, into but not all the way through a building, or into but not through the Coke sign. By contrast Iron Man and Thor were hitting each other hard enough to send each other through trees nearly two feet thick. Do you have any idea how much more force that would require? When Thor "dropped the hammer" on Captain America the impact was enough to disintegrate several trees in the vicinity. When Movie Superman hits someone, or is hit by someone with his power set their Kryptonian strength clashing with Kryptonian durability isn't even enough shatter windows. Superman's heat vision, sure it can get hot enough to vaporize rock, but so what? That only requires a few thousand degrees. One lightning bolt can be over one million degrees. That's hotter than the surface of the sun. If getting hit by something as small and slow moving as a bus being thrown at him was enough to nearly k.o. him. Then getting hit by a giant robot snake, at least ten times larger than said bus and traveling at a higher speed would have probably killed him. When an object is thrown it is the speed that it travels combined with it's own mass that determines the force of the impact. The strength of the person or in this case people throwing the object is inconsequential. Rather than having two variables (velocity x mass) as with the bus impact, the robot snake impact has three variables (velocity x mass x torque) two of the snake collision variables are much larger than the bus collision variables and the third was non existent. The giant robot snake was not only much larger, but it was also traveling faster and under it's own power, therefore was capable of generating exponentially more force than the bus that was simply thrown.
Shall I take this? Okay, but I am getting bored of the low balling.
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Movie Superman can catch a bullet reflexively to save someone, but he can't dodge a manhole cover frisbee tossed at him.
Was hurt and surprised. Was fighting 3 different Kryptonians for God's sakes. He just beat up one, and got surprised by another one who actually called out "Superman" very nicely.
Originally posted by Brockalizer
He certainly doesn't use his bullet catching speed to dodge punches.
Whose punches? Kryptonian punches?
Originally posted by Brockalizer
When he punches someone or is punched by someone else with his powerset, and has no reason to hold anything back from those punches, the force generated is only enough to send the opponent crashing through a concrete wall, into but not all the way through a building, or into but not through the Coke sign. By contrast Iron Man and Thor were hitting each other hard enough to send each other through trees nearly two feet thick. Do you have any idea how much more force that would require?
Yes but who was Superman punching? Kryptonians? Yeah somehow I think if I punched a 12 year old theres a much greater chance of him going flying back and crashing through something, then if I punch say Mike Tyson... Who probably wouldn't even budge Lol.
Also I think you've forgotten Superman punched Nom all the way though the concrete ground, through a skyscraper and he still carried on flying off. Lol. So I really don't know what your talking about.
Originally posted by Brockalizer
When Thor "dropped the hammer" on Captain America the impact was enough to disintegrate several trees in the vicinity. When Movie Superman hits someone, or is hit by someone with his power set their Kryptonian strength clashing with Kryptonian durability isn't even enough shatter windows.
First of all when Nom and Superman were in a punch up under ground it was causing an earthquake.
Second I don't remember anything breaking as a response to Hulk punching Thor or vice versa. Only when they crashed through things.
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Then getting hit by a giant robot snake, at least ten times larger than said bus and traveling at a higher speed would have probably killed him. When an object is thrown it is the speed that it travels combined with it's own mass that determines the force of the impact. The strength of the person or in this case people throwing the object is inconsequential. Rather than having two variables (velocity x mass) as with the bus impact, the robot snake impact has three variables (velocity x mass x torque) two of the snake collision variables are much larger than the bus collision variables and the third was non existent. The giant robot snake was not only much larger, but it was also traveling faster and under it's own power, therefore was capable of generating exponentially more force than the bus that was simply thrown.
You see this is where the special effects come in. There was no matrix style "let's have the bus moving in slow motion while only Superman and Kryptoinans are moving normally" at that time.
And before you give me a list of what was possible in those days just remember it was not so easily and inexpensively done. So there were only so many effects they could use in one film.
And it worked at the time. People saw that scene and knew what was happening. The bus was thrown with the force of 2 Krptonians, each with the strength to move moons, or at least islands.