Lucifer vs. Superman: Battle of willpower only

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Maker gives you free will but no one else defied their function. That means none o fthem had any free will despite them believing so. You honestly don't comprehend comics. You really need someone to sit you down to explain these posts of mine. I'm quite exceptional.

No, it isn't vague it's clear. Lucifer was tricked once by the Maker but didn't fall for this again. The Maker was so impressed he offered they combine and let Lucifer be the Maker completely unscarred by experience. Lucifer rejected it further showing he does what he wants. The Maker respected the shit out of him for it. It's hard to argue with him not doing so since everyone else fell in line to the roles assigned to them.

Lucifer never had omnipotent power. Lucifer admits the Maker is always more powerful than he is. You are just making stuff up again. You just spout random bs and act like I am going to accept it as something that you literally didn't dream up.

Infinite will doesn't mean you are the most powerful or the most formidable. Your debating is so awful I almost don't know where to begin with you. It'd be like talking algebra with someone who doesn't understand addition, subtraction, division and multiplication.

Lucifer is more powerful than Superman but most of the time in his comic he was depowered anyway. Having an infinite will doesn't mean you are all knowing. His will is infinite in that he achieved what he ultimately sought. He was tricked and surprised along the way but he isn't all knowing. Nor did I ever claim he was.

It tells me Superman has high willpower but that isn't his only showing. I can show the Trans easily dominating his will. You can't do the same for Lucifer. You look at Superman's history and his will has been broken before. You don't highlight the best and pretend the other showings don't count because you're upset Superman doesn't prevail here.

The Maker is supreme and is beyond EJoker. Far less than a reality warper with that power has broken Superman. Sometimes power itself is irrelevant when it comes to willpower. I eliminated the power here.

Lucifer has infinite will and has backed it up on panel rejecting his function and impressing the Maker to the point of offering an amalgamation of the two.

Blah blah blah Quan.

You have a doubtful feat of free will and want it to make it into a legit feat of infinite will, while ignoring the FACT that his will has failed in the great war and the Hell's civil war.

You ignore those fact because as always you think you have a solid case, when in fact you don't.

The evidence presented to you of an herald defying the will of 5d imp is relatively more impressive than a Multiversal entity defying the creator.

Mind that 5D imps were not affected by the COEI and yet the Creator and Hell were affected by the COEI.

But this will get always lost on your reading comprehension skills of an 8 year old kid.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Blah blah blah Quan.

You have a doubtful feat of free will and want it to make it into a legit feat of infinite will, while ignoring the FACT that his will has failed in the great war and the Hell's civil war.

You ignore those fact because as always you think you have a solid case, when in fact you don't.

The evidence presented to you of an herald defying the will of 5d imp is relatively more impressive than a Multiversal entity defying the creator.

Mind that 5D imps were not affected by the COEI and yet the Creator and Hell were affected by the COEI.

But this will get always lost on your reading comprehension skills of an 8 year old kid.

Lucifer's power is next to nothing to the Maker's. The Maker is all powerful so he can kill him if he wants but Lucifer's will didn't break unlike Superman's. That's the difference. Superman's will has been broken while someone far weaker than him powerwise Batman resisted longer DUE TO SUPERIOR WILLPOWER. Powers have nothing to do with it and even by your own logic Batman far outclasses Superman.

You can insult all you want. You know I am right. Others have given me props despite their hatred of me because I am 100 percent right. You're wrong and don't even understand what willpower is. You believe since the word power is right behind will that this comes down to formidability.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's been described as infinite will. I say he has infinite will because the comic clearly states it. I feel having the will to ignore the Maker's function for you illustrates it feat wise. You keep raising ridiculous question after ridiculous question which has nothing to do with free will itself.

Lucifer's power is next to nothing to the Maker's. The Maker is all powerful so he can kill him if he wants but Lucifer's will didn't break unlike Superman's. That's the difference. Superman's will has been broken while someone far weaker than him powerwise Batman resisted longer DUE TO SUPERIOR WILLPOWER. Powers have nothing to do with it and even by your own logic Batman far outclasses Superman.

You can insult all you want. You know I am right. Others have given me props despite their hatred of me because I am 100 percent right. You're wrong and don't even understand what willpower is. You believe since the word power is right behind will that this comes down to formidability.

Lol Quan, I gave my vote to Lucifer from start and I conceded Lucifer wining based on hierarchy.

But his feats of will are doubtful at best and his will has failed in the great war and Hell's civil war, there is no way around that.

What it bothers me is you trying to parade this vs multiversal entity fight of will as a "Superman sucks" kind of thread and if anything is just brings light as to how his will is one of the greatest in creation.

If I were a blind fan of Superman like you are with Thanos I will have bring the Example of Superman ruling hell in one of his comics and claimed.

"Since Superman sit in hell's throne it means Superman has infinite will, like Lucifer" same type of argument you tried to shove on another closed thread.

It does not change the FACT that his feats of will are dubious at best. So your case was not solid since the start, We are just smart and We don't let fanboyism to cloud our judgement.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Lol Quan, I gave my vote to Lucifer from start and I conceded Lucifer wining based on hierarchy.

But his feats of will are doubtful at best and his will has failed in the great war and Hell's civil war, there is no way around that.

What it bothers me is you trying to parade this vs multiversal entity fight of will as a "Superman sucks" kind of thread and if anything is just brings light as to how his will is one of the greatest in creation.

If I were a blind fan of Superman like you are with Thanos I will have bring the Example of Superman ruling hell in one of his comics and claimed.

"Since Superman sit in hell's throne it means Superman has infinite will, like Lucifer" same type of argument you tried to shove on another closed thread.

It does not change the FACT that his feats of will are dubious at best. So your case was not solid since the start, We are just smart and We don't let fanboyism to cloud our judgement.

I am saying Lucifer wins. You agree. Then you want to cry because you yourself admitted Superman loses. You said it. I agreed and then you went on to argue with me further because you're mad at yourself.

Bring any feat of willpower you want. That pales in comparison to Lucifer's best. Hell isn't close to the Maker. So who cares. We've seen Superman's will falter.

The ruler of hell didn't create all of reality. The ruler of hell isn't all powerful. You really need aid. You say the silliest things.

By your own logic you believe power has everything to do with willpower you're lost. But the best part is by your own warped logic you think Batman destroys Superman since he is nowhere near Superman in terms of power. I disagree with your logic but according to your own you believe this. Awesome.

When have we seen Superman falter?

Originally posted by -Pr-
When have we seen Superman falter?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I posted the scan in this very thread. The Trans wrecked him.

Could you link it, please?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Could you link it, please?

I will repost it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They were evenly matched and their powers didn't decide who won Thanos' will did.

The ig made them pretty much equals while they fought for total control over reality. Thanos won via his will power.

What occurred in Final crisis which was his greatest feat of will power ?

Warlock knew Thanos was going to win the conflict because Thanos coupled with that kind of power could only be defeated by himself. No one beats Thanos with that kind of power and strength of will.

Since you won't leave the thread let's see direct comparisons to both Kyle and Batman. [B]Kyle looks superior to Superman as does Batman.

Then we have Superman easily overwhelmed by the Trans. Even WW adding her own will onto his was useless.

Here Trans acknowledges Batman's willpower is greater than all the rest of the jla including Superman's.

[/B]

That's the best you could muster?

lol, your Superman hate is just petty at this point, Quan.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's the best you could muster?

lol, your Superman hate is just petty at this point, Quan.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You asked for an example and then complain when I do so. That's an example of his willpower being broken. I can definitely post more but it's an example of his will breaking. This is relevant to the thread.

but all his higher feats of will, including ones where he's even been more willfull than batman or green lanterns, suddenly don't count?

I'm complaining because, for some reason, i expected better.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, they aren't doubtful at all. You simply don't understand what willpower is. His willpower did not fail in the great war. Not at all. You really don't grasp what you read.

Believe me My reading is much better than yours Quan.

You though "expunging bacteria" was an attack, so, please lets not get into that, because it will be really painful to you, loose vs someone whose English is not his native tongue, but understand much better what Imperex meant. So please, lets not get into that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am saying Lucifer wins. You agree. Then you want to cry because you yourself admitted Superman loses. You said it. I agreed and then you went on to argue with me further because you're mad at yourself.

I did not wen't into "crying" I just pointed out how funny is that You have to bring a multiversal level entity STATED to have infinite will, in order for you to have a sure win, which is hillarious

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bring any feat of willpower you want. That pales in comparison to Lucifer's best. Hell isn't close to the Maker. So who cares. We've seen Superman's will falter.

Not really, We also know Lucifer's has falter as well

Originally posted by quanchi112
The ruler of hell didn't create all of reality. The ruler of hell isn't all powerful. You really need aid. You say the silliest things.

Imps destroy Multiverses and have no change after the COEI what is your point? Hell, even the Presence imagination was challenged by the Anti-monitor, what does that tells you?

Originally posted by quanchi112
By your own logic you believe power has everything to do with willpower you're lost. But the best part is by your own warped logic you think Batman destroys Superman since he is nowhere near Superman in terms of power. I disagree with your logic but according to your own you believe this.

LOL, No I don't think Batman's destroys Superman's will. I think Batman's will is to be respected specially since he goes with out any powers and challenges metas. I think his will is awesome, but I also think Superman's will is "awesome" as He challenges Multiversal entities. But in no way "destroys it"

Originally posted by quanchi112
Awesome.

"Awesome"? Dude you are 33!

Originally posted by -Pr-
but all his higher feats of will, including ones where he's even been more willfull than batman or green lanterns, suddenly don't count?

I'm complaining because, for some reason, i expected better.

I am honest about my hatred of Superman but I won't just say anyone beats him. I like Gladiator and give Superman the win over him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They all count. I never said they didn't. I am saying Superman's willpower can be overwhelmed. Superman/Batman/Hal Jordan are peers. Superman isn't on his own level. It usually varies from writer to writer. I accept all showings so in some instances his will is great and in others it falters.

I am honest about my hatred of Superman but I won't just say anyone beats him. I like Gladiator and give Superman the win over him.

Then how do you account for times when he's shown a resistance to more powerful forces?

It comes down to averages Quan; he has more good showings than bad, so we use the average. The average is that his will, more often than not, is as great as any in creation. ANY, in creation.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Then how do you account for times when he's shown a resistance to more powerful forces?

It comes down to averages Quan; he has more good showings than bad, so we use the average. The average is that his will, more often than not, is as great as any in creation. ANY, in creation.

Take for instance a sports team. You don't just look at their wins and forget their losses since they weren't the average. I am not saying Superman loses to a scrub and has shitty willpower I am saying there are those better than he is imo. Those who have not broken.

Originally posted by quanchi112
His will isn't as good as Lucifer's. Superman is a peer to Batman. Superman has peers in his universe while Lucifer does not. You criticize me for discounting certain showings. I accept them all. His willpower is great it's just not unbreakable.

Take for instance a sports team. You don't just look at their wins and forget their losses since they weren't the average. I am not saying Superman loses to a scrub and has shitty willpower I am saying there are those better than he is imo. Those who have not broken.

I'm not talking about whether he's Lucifer's equal, just taking issue with your obvious lowballing.

Quan, don't pretend you accept all showings. I wasn't born yesterday.

We don't shove his low showings to the front like you're trying to do either.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm not talking about whether he's Lucifer's equal, just taking issue with your obvious lowballing.

Quan, don't pretend you accept all showings. I wasn't born yesterday.

We don't shove his low showings to the front like you're trying to do either.

My point was his willpower can be broken. Take a sports team. We don't ignore when teams have beaten them and pretend they are unbeatable by just looking at their championship runs. That's my point. All showings count. When we factor them all in Lucifer looks more impressive. Superman has more showings but Lucifer's feats are of higher caliber and his willpower has never broken.

Take two boxers. Let's say one boxer is undefeated at say 29-0 while another is 35-3. There are other factors present other than their records like competition, etc. I am asking you to ignore the other variables for a moment to make a point. My point is the guy with an undefeated record is more impressive based on theory alone than the guy who has 3 losses but has won 35 fights. Both are powerhouses but one guy doesn't have a single blemish while the other guys average is winning but he has lost so he isn't unbeatable. The other guy seems unbeatable at this point in his career.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am accepting his high showings as well. Not once did I say his willpower was bad. In some stories he's superior to Batman but not all the time. That's my point. His will can be broken like Batman's can be broken. They aren't unbeatable. I am saying yes Superman is capable of resisting to the point other peers have fallen but there are other instances where his peers have bailed him out as well.

My point was his willpower can be broken. Take a sports team. We don't ignore when teams have beaten them and pretend they are unbeatable by just looking at their championship runs. That's my point. All showings count. When we factor them all in Lucifer looks more impressive. Superman has more showings but Lucifer's feats are of higher caliber and his willpower has never broken.

Take two boxers. Let's say one boxer is undefeated at say 29-0 while another is 35-3. There are other factors present other than their records like competition, etc. I am asking you to ignore the other variables for a moment to make a point. My point is the guy with an undefeated record is more impressive based on theory alone than the guy who has 3 losses but has won 35 fights. Both are powerhouses but one guy doesn't have a single blemish while the other guys average is winning but he has lost so he isn't unbeatable. The other guy seems unbeatable at this point in his career.

Why do you keep bringing up the sports analogy? It doesn't apply here.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Believe me My reading is much better than yours Quan.

You though "expunging bacteria" was an attack, so, please lets not get into that, because it will be really painful to you, loose vs someone whose English is not his native tongue, but understand much better what Imperex meant. So please, lets not get into that.

I did not wen't into "crying" I just pointed out how funny is that You have to bring a multiversal level entity STATED to have infinite will, in order for you to have a sure win, which is hillarious[/B]

Not really, We also know Lucifer's has falter as well[/B]

Imps destroy Multiverses and have no change after the COEI what is your point? Hell, even the Presence imagination was challenged by the Anti-monitor, what does that tells you?
[/B]

LOL, No I don't think Batman's destroys Superman's will. I think Batman's will is to be respected specially since he goes with out any powers and challenges metas. I think his will is awesome, but I also think Superman's will is "awesome" as He challenges Multiversal entities. But in no way "destroys it"

"Awesome"? Dude you are 33! [/B]

Willpopwer has nothing to do with overall power. How many times do I have to say it ? If someone with the Spectre's power wants to kill Superman he can't resist it due to his willpower. He can resist his personality being altered due to great will power. Once you grasp what willpower is then come back to this thread.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why do you keep bringing up the sports analogy? It doesn't apply here.