Lucifer vs. Superman: Battle of willpower only

Originally posted by quanchi112
I would like you to explain to me why an abstract's will should be greater than someone else's. I mean I am all for it since Thanos beat Eternity via will power before. But I am curious as to hear more of this rationale.

You think Lucifer wins. No need to explain it away. Just say Lucifer wins and move on.

Lol Quan.

I think Lucifer wins based on hierarchy and I am applying forum rules to this when thinking about this scenario.

And Thanos defeating Eternity? that was actually due to raw power, You know the IG has something to do.

IIRC He does not even has enough will power to make death to love him even with all that raw power. 😉

And why THIS particular abstract should have an insane amount of will? Well his/it will is stated to be infinite and He is going against the will of the creator of all or is He?

And You usually show an insane amount of will power when You are on the losing end of the fight. Not when you have a Universal artifact of destruction helping you.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Lol Quan.

I think Lucifer wins based on hierarchy and I am applying forum rules to this when thinking about this scenario.

And Thanos defeating Eternity? that was actually due to raw power, You know the IG has something to do.

IIRC He does not even has enough will power to make death to love him even with all that raw power. 😉

And why THIS particular abstract should have an insane amount of will? Well his/it will is stated to be infinite and He is going against the will of the creator of all or is He?

And You usually show an insane amount of will power when You are on the losing end of the fight. Not when you have a Universal artifact of destruction helping you.

I agree Lucifer wins but am happy you do as well.

If you defeat an abstract being via willpower you agreed that's an insanely high showing. You used those words. Now I knew you'd distance yourself from that logic when I applied it to someone else. You're predictable.

Am going to have to go with lucifer. supermans will power sounds great but on paper its a whole different story lets see:
1.doomsday killed him..there goes his will to live. heck in round 2 he had to cheat to beat doomsday using the motherbox so much for truth and honor and will of fighting fair, heck as soon as his ass got beat he quickly resorted bfr like a honorable h2h warrior.
2.darkseid brought him too his knees with one punch to look at the agies armor submiting his will of freedom.
3.jimmy olsen pwned superman proven even without powers he has no will and he resorted to complain like a brat.
4.kryptonite and red sun breaks his will to even stand right on spot.
5.will is of the mind they go hand in hand you need a strong mind/character to have a strong will which superman shows he has utterly pathetic showings he gets mind control easily and magic shatters his will which is the reason he's suspectiable to magic because of a weak mind.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos won via willpower. Not surprising you abandon that logic there. Death does love him hence the tear and her involvement with him. Lucifer's hierarchy has nothing to do with Superman. He's in a self contained universe.

I agree Lucifer wins but am happy you do as well.

If you defeat an abstract being via willpower you agreed that's an insanely high showing. You used those words. Now I knew you'd distance yourself from that logic when I applied it to someone else. You're predictable.

If You defeat an abstract via will power and You don't have the power to back you up.

Thanos had plenty of power to challenge Eternity. You know each gem has a function.

Superman on the other hand had nothing but his will to counter EJ.

See the difference? and like I told you I base this on hierarchy, not on panel evidence. because on panel evidence I'm wrong and so You are.

Originally posted by Hulkbuster1
Am going to have to go with lucifer. supermans will power sounds great but on paper its a whole different story lets see:
1.doomsday killed him..there goes his will to live. heck in round 2 he had to cheat to beat doomsday using the motherbox so much for truth and honor and will of fighting fair, heck as soon as his ass got beat he quickly resorted bfr like a honorable h2h warrior.
2.darkseid brought him too his knees with one punch to look at the agies armor submiting his will of freedom.
3.jimmy olsen pwned superman proven even without powers he has no will and he resorted to complain like a brat.
4.kryptonite and red sun breaks his will to even stand right on spot.
5.will is of the mind they go hand in hand you need a strong mind/character to have a strong will which superman shows he has utterly pathetic showings he gets mind control easily and magic shatters his will which is the reason he's suspectiable to magic because of a weak mind.

Yes is so weak that He came back from death.

He challenges magic via will powers, when he is supposed to be vulnerable to it.

He displays powers under red suns and fight kryptonite every day of the weak.

Nice post

Originally posted by biensalsa
If You defeat an abstract via will power and You don't have the power to back you up.

Thanos had plenty of power to challenge Eternity. You know each gem has a function.

Superman on the other hand had nothing but his will to counter EJ.

See the difference? and like I told you I base this on hierarchy, not on panel evidence. because on panel evidence I'm wrong and so You are.

Thanos and Eternity fought for top dog of the 616 reality but Thanos won via willpower. Willpower and what it looked like The Spectre's aid.

Thanos beating Eternity via willpower isn't his greatest showing either. I bet this showing is at the top of Superman's willpower feats.

But let's just stick to the topic. I agree Lucifer wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Their power was comparable and Thanos won via willpower. In this thread I took both powersets out so they can compete against each other. How can't you follow along ?

Thanos and Eternity fought for top dog of the 616 reality but Thanos won via willpower. Willpower and what it looked like The Spectre's aid.

Thanos beating Eternity via willpower isn't his greatest showing either. I bet this showing is at the top of Superman's willpower feats.

But let's just stick to the topic. I agree Lucifer wins.

Not really Quan.

Thanos had the IG with him, and He defeated Eternity with it.

Superman had nothing but rocks to defeat EJ. Hal Jordan Spectre had lots of power and will and He could not do it.

And no is not Superman's upper showing of will.

Final crisis???

And yes Lucifer wins VIA Hierarchy on my scenario.

and before I leave Even Warlock knew who was going to win that fight base on raw power

Originally posted by biensalsa
If You defeat an abstract via will power and You don't have the power to back you up.

Thanos had plenty of power to challenge Eternity. You know each gem has a function.

Superman on the other hand had nothing but his will to counter EJ.

See the difference? and like I told you I base this on hierarchy, not on panel evidence. because on panel evidence I'm wrong and so You are.

I think quanchi was talking about the time Thanos took on Eternity's role , when he fist used the cosmic cube . Considering how Goddess stated that only a universally-linked will of all sentient beings could override the CCU's self-imposed limitations , and the fact that a single CCU is nowhere near Eternity's power , I'd say it was more of Thanos' willpower , combined with the cube's reality manipulation abilities , that enabled him to usurp Eternity at that particular time .

So , its safe to say for now that Thanos' will power is possibly equal to linked will of all sentient beings in the universe .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I think quanchi was talking about the time Thanos took on Eternity's role , when he fist used the cosmic cube . Considering how Goddess stated that only a universally-linked will of all sentient beings could override the CCU's self-imposed limitations , and the fact that a single CCU is nowhere near Eternity's power , I'd say it was more of Thanos' willpower , combined with the cube's reality manipulation abilities , that enabled him to usurp Eternity at that particular time .

So , its safe to say for now that Thanos' will power is possibly equal to linked will of all sentient beings in the universe .

Originally posted by biensalsa
Yes is so weak that He came back from death.

He challenges magic via will powers, when he is supposed to be vulnerable to it.

He displays powers under red suns and fight kryptonite every day of the weak.

Nice post

Originally posted by Hulkbuster1
Coming back from death was imo pis because anybody can tell a dead person from a suspended state person. you mean to tell me a time traveler like wave rider was clueless about the unfolding events. at the time he was suppose to be dead but dc later wanted to bring him back because they reasoned nobody could have replace supes during the reign story.
yes his will over magic is average at best...actually its a mix bag like silver age superman powers they both are inconsistent. on one panel he takes black adams blows but than on others he is one shot killed by gog hurt by supernatural beings, drained and begging for mercy from captain atom, turned into a ape, at the mercy of myzaspilics magis turning him fat,old,skinny and big headed and on more than one occassion he has either been brain washed or manipulated. heck godfall showed superman ego can be greater than his will.
red sun makes him instant weak and I kryptonite has been shown to make him immovable, although ive seen some comics where he breaks physics and fights back like villan metallio. The only superman that impressed me was kingdom come supes and he technicaly isnt cannon.
when jimmy was beating up a powerless superman his clam will was quickly shattered in secound leaving him whinny about how if he had powers(cheating) he would beat him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Meh, hal has better will. He killed someone who was controlling the willpower of every sentient being in creation via Ion entity while overcoming the ring's limitation by sheer willpower. Goddess was using the will of every sentient being to undo creation, not to replace eternity IIRC.

I am not talking about what she was doing with it . I am talking about what she needed to overcome the CCUs' own internal limitations . Something Thanos was able to do through his own willpower .

Originally posted by abhilegend
Once again you strike back. Good job on trolling.

it not 'trolling'. im not writing all that. ill just defend the pis on supermans death. you mean to tell me dc universe which heros greatly compremise of doctors, scientist, elemental heros, guardians of universe, and time travelers and heros with dimensional/time awarness that can go into the future or travel the multiverse that they couldn't tell superman was in suspended animation smh really especially since they guy has a habit of faking dying alot heck its practically on his resume under job expertise. so a hero that has been knowwn to 'die' before was pronounced dead without question wow okay.

Originally posted by Hulkbuster1
it not 'trolling'. im not writing all that. ill just defend the pis on supermans death. you mean to tell me dc universe which heros greatly compremise of doctors, scientist, elemental heros, guardians of universe, and time travelers and heros with dimensional/time awarness that can go into the future or travel the multiverse that they couldn't tell superman was in suspended animation smh really especially since they guy has a habit of faking dying alot heck its practically on his resume under job expertise. so a hero that has been knowwn to 'die' before was pronounced dead without question wow okay.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I am not talking about what she was doing with it . I am talking about what she needed to overcome the CCUs' own internal limitations . Something Thanos was able to do through his own willpower .

Originally posted by abhilegend
The two does not compare so its just upon your own interpretation to decide which is better feat.

Actually it does , since the Goddess explicitly states that to overcome the self-imposed limitations of individual units , the will of all sentient life has to be linked together . And yet Thanos is able to do it on his own .

So , its safe to say for now , that Thanos' will is possibly the greatest(or at least among the greatest) in the universe .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Actually it does , since the Goddess explicitly states that to overcome the self-imposed limitations of individual units , the will of all sentient life has to be linked together . And yet Thanos is able to do it on his own .

So , its safe to say for now , that Thanos' will is possibly the greatest(or at least among the greatest) in the universe .

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman's soul had left his body. He willed it back into his body. Don't talk about things you don't know.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman's soul had left his body. He willed it back into his body. Don't talk about things you don't know.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman's soul had left his body. He willed it back into his body. Don't talk about things you don't know.

I think what abhi is trying to say is that the goddess needed to remove the limits to do what she needed while there is nothing to show that thanos needed to remove them to do what he did.

hulkbuster, I think Bienesalsa already pointed out that you still need the power behind the will. Having the will won't allow you to do the impossible.