Lucifer vs. Superman: Battle of willpower only · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

Hulkbuster1 Senior Member

Originally posted by Diesldude
hulkbuster, I think Bienesalsa already pointed out that you still need the power behind the will. Having the will won't allow you to do the impossible.

Im sorry but to truly test a characters strong will he needs to be strong with or without his powers and sorry to say that is not superman. heck superman has been saved and escaped desth through luck or help like whem imperiex almost turn him to ash. heck imo batman has the greatest will because with or without powers and gadgets he almost always conquers the odds even against beings with power. superman on the other hand without his powers he was at the mercy of that dork jimmy olsen and was at his knees agaisnt muhammed ali. without his powers he is useless ,just ask lex, unlike batman. even captain america has shown a stronger will. The only thing superman has is a strong sense of values and his morality code, which based on his ego in fallen god, its put into question.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by biensalsa
Not really Quan.
Thanos had the IG with him, and He defeated Eternity with it.
Superman had nothing but rocks to defeat EJ. Hal Jordan Spectre had lots of power and will and He could not do it.
And no is not Superman's upper showing of will.
Final crisis???
And yes Lucifer wins VIA Hierarchy on my scenario.
and before I leave Even Warlock knew who was going to win that fight base on raw power

They were evenly matched and their powers didn't decide who won Thanos' will did.

The ig made them pretty much equals while they fought for total control over reality. Thanos won via his will power.

What occurred in Final crisis which was his greatest feat of will power ?

Warlock knew Thanos was going to win the conflict because Thanos coupled with that kind of power could only be defeated by himself. No one beats Thanos with that kind of power and strength of will.

Since you won't leave the thread let's see direct comparisons to both Kyle and Batman. Kyle looks superior to Superman as does Batman.

Then we have Superman easily overwhelmed by the Trans. Even WW adding her own will onto his was useless.

Here Trans acknowledges Batman's willpower is greater than all the rest of the jla including Superman's.

TheGodKiller True Killer

Originally posted by abhilegend
Two different goals. Replacing eternity and undoing all of creation is vastly different things.

Doesn't matter . Both the goals required the same ends , i.e. overriding the will of a CCU . Thanos did it on his own . The Goddess needed the will of all sentient life in the universe to do the same .

So , as I said before , its safe to say that Thanos' will is possibly the strongest(or at least among the strongest) in the Marvel Universe .

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Doesn't matter . Both the goals required the same ends , i.e. overriding the will of a CCU . Thanos did it on his own . The Goddess needed the will of all sentient life in the universe to do the same .
So , as I said before , its safe to say that Thanos' will is possibly the strongest(or at least among the strongest) in the Marvel Universe .

Aren't we forgetting something? Goddess had 30 CCUs and the will was needed to break the combined will of CCUs. So again not comparable. I've no problem with thanos having one of the strongest wills in MU.

biensalsa DJ FrostByte

Originally posted by quanchi112
They were evenly matched and their powers didn't decide who won Thanos' will did.
The ig made them pretty much equals while they fought for total control over reality. Thanos won via his will power.
What occurred in Final crisis which was his greatest feat of will power ?
Warlock knew Thanos was going to win the conflict because Thanos coupled with that kind of power could only be defeated by himself. No one beats Thanos with that kind of power and strength of will.
Since you won't leave the thread let's see direct comparisons to both Kyle and Batman. [B]Kyle looks superior to Superman as does Batman.
Then we have Superman easily overwhelmed by the Trans. Even WW adding her own will onto his was useless.
Here Trans acknowledges Batman's willpower is greater than all the rest of the jla including Superman's.
[/B]

That is nice and everything Quan but I can show you also Batman's will broken in EJ. And Batman's will failing temptation in Absolute Power.

Also Kyle was the best suited for such a task as He is well, you know very experienced into handling energy + will.

Plus Batman's, Hal's and SM are among the most powerful wills in the DCu.

All of them have that kind of will, but if I were to think that in a forum fight vs a multiversal abstract entity with infinite will, Superman can win with nothing but rocks?, well I will be flirting with fanboyism.

Which it seems You have no problem thinking Thanos could do it.

Speaking of which and this is using the Example in IG

and to give you a better analogy so you can comprehend my position.

If I wanted to destroy and ant, I just have to step on it.

If I want to destroy a human, is not as easy as to just use my boot and step on it.

And bear with me because this is a complete fictional example.

Now if the ant, even after I stepped on it I have failed to kill it, well it means the ant has an insane amount of will to even challenge me.

The Human with his size and his power does not need the same amount of will to challenge me, because We are in even terms, The ant has a huge handicap which somehow You can't see.

I wonder why

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by biensalsa
That is nice and everything Quan but I can show you also Batman's will broken in EJ. And Batman's will failing temptation in Absolute Power.

Yes, and I could show you more than one example as well. Batman and Superman are equals when it comes to willpower although I'd give him a slight advantage.

Also Kyle was the best suited for such a task as He is well, you know very experienced into handling energy + will. [/B]

I agree Kyle has more experience with will power and is better suited to the task than Superman. Kyle>Superman when it comes to this. Glad you agree and so willingly.

Plus Batman's, Hal's and SM are among the most powerful wills in the DCu.
All of them have that kind of will, but if I were to think that in a forum fight vs a multiversal abstract entity with infinite will, Superman can win with nothing but rocks?, well I will be flirting with fanboyism. [/B]

I'd say Hal has the greatest will in the dc universe personally. I think he's above Superman and Batman. If we throw in their powers Lucifer stomps him even more so. Lucifer is smarter than Superman by about ten miles. The only way I can make it fair is if I eliminate powers. You still agree Superman loses.

Which it seems You have no problem thinking Thanos could do it. [/B]

It's also consistent within my beliefs he's in the top upper tier of willpower. You yourself agree Superman doesn't beat Lucifer under willpower alone.

Speaking of which and this is using the Example in IG
and to give you a better analogy so you can comprehend my position.
If I wanted to destroy and ant, I just have to step on it.
If I want to destroy a human, is not as easy as to just use my boot and step on it.
And bear with me because this is a complete fictional example.
Now if the ant, even after I stepped on it I have failed to kill it, well it means the ant has an insane amount of will to even challenge me.
The Human with his size and his power does not need the same amount of will to challenge me, because We are in even terms, The ant has a huge handicap which somehow You can't see.
I wonder why [/B]

Your analogy fails because Thanos and Eternity weren't ants to each other in the scenario. Their power was comparable and Thanos won due to his superior willpower. If you think Eternity is an ant to the ig you need to read marvel comics.

But I agree Superman loses here. 🙂

iceman24567 Senior Member

Supermans will > Hals will

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by iceman24567
Supermans will > Hals will

Based on what ?

Bentley Seitei

Feats, on panel narration, ther respective careers as Green Lanterns, you name it.

Also, I just realized that Lucifer has no feats so... Spite in Kal's favor 😈

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by Bentley
Feats, on panel narration, ther respective careers as Green Lanterns, you name it.
Also, I just realized that Lucifer has no feats so... Spite in Kal's favor 😈

If you weren't being humorous here I'd smite thee.

biensalsa DJ FrostByte

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, and I could show you more than one example as well. Batman and Superman are equals when it comes to willpower although I'd give him a slight advantage.
I agree Kyle has more experience with will power and is better suited to the task than Superman. Kyle>Superman when it comes to this. Glad you agree and so willingly.
I'd say Hal has the greatest will in the dc universe personally. I think he's above Superman and Batman. If we throw in their powers Lucifer stomps him even more so. Lucifer is smarter than Superman by about ten miles. The only way I can make it fair is if I eliminate powers. You still agree Superman loses.
It's also consistent within my beliefs he's in the top upper tier of willpower. You yourself agree Superman doesn't beat Lucifer under willpower alone.
Your analogy fails because Thanos and Eternity weren't ants to each other in the scenario. Their power was comparable and Thanos won due to his superior willpower. If you think Eternity is an ant to the ig you need to read marvel comics.
But I agree Superman loses here. 🙂

Respond later on more detailed, but right now Quan

The ant was not Thanos with the IG

The ant represents Superman vs EJ

The human vs human represent Thanos with the IG vs Eternity.

The analogy does not fails, what it fails is the interpretation you gave it.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by biensalsa
Respond later on more detailed, but right now Quan
The ant was not Thanos with the IG
The ant represents Superman vs EJ
The human vs human represent Thanos with the IG vs Eternity.
The analogy does not fails, what it fails is the interpretation you gave it.

Superman was just retaining his will and he was aided by the Spectre. I also showed you his will easily being dominated by the Trans. You can't accept one and not the other. They all go into the pot. Batman is a peer to Superman not Lucifer.

paisapower Senior Member

A few scans

Will in near infinite amounts, so says the Stranger who is narator

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Even magic gets hurdled when his willpower deems it necessary

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Unbreakable even win weakened and under hundreds of years of torture (mentally and physically)

[/URL][/IMG]
[/URL][/IMG]

biensalsa DJ FrostByte

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, and I could show you more than one example as well. Batman and Superman are equals when it comes to willpower although I'd give him a slight advantage.

There is no point getting into that. Having those amounts of will is actually pretty good.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I agree Kyle has more experience with will power and is better suited to the task than Superman.

Better Suited to handle will + energy brainiac

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kyle>Superman when it comes to this. Glad you agree and so willingly.

You are so funny Quan, I do not agree to that. I agree to will + energy. If is only will Superman wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I'd say Hal has the greatest will in the dc universe personally. I think he's above Superman and Batman. If we throw in their powers Lucifer stomps him even more so. Lucifer is smarter than Superman by about ten miles.

Intelligence is not measured in miles, Modok. And if You think Hal's will is above?... well, You think a lot of things that are wrong, so one more is not really changing anything. You are used to that anyway.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The only way I can make it fair is if I eliminate powers. You still agree Superman loses.

I agree based on a hierarchy level, not because of actual panel feats. But now that You are going to start playing along this lines. You will have to question if anything done by Lucifer is his own free will or if he is just following the will of the creator. 😉

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's also consistent within my beliefs he's in the top upper tier of willpower. You yourself agree Superman doesn't beat Lucifer under willpower alone.

No and like I said is based on hierarchy, not based on any argument or feats You have presented here. Because You have not shown anything so far, that is more impressive than an ant fighting vs a human with will only.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your analogy fails because Thanos and Eternity weren't ants to each other in the scenario. Their power was comparable and Thanos won due to his superior willpower. If you think Eternity is an ant to the ig you need to read marvel comics.

Sometimes I do wonder where did You learn to read or if my english is that bad, that I cannot explain properly the analogy. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but based on previous talks with you. I have started to think the first option is the one dictating your responses.

quanchi112 Disney

Yes, Superman has strong willpower but the magic still hurt him and the feat isn't impressive at all. It's not like he was completely depowered. The older Superman showing isn't canon to Ne Superman.

biensalsa DJ FrostByte

Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman was just retaining his will and he was aided by the Spectre. I also showed you his will easily being dominated by the Trans. You can't accept one and not the other. They all go into the pot. Batman is a peer to Superman not Lucifer.

Not really Quan

Superman was alone in there. Will to live even when his heart was pulled out of his body.

I have to mention this.

Remember that 1% of Mr. Mxy power was still fighting Emperor Joker's will?

Well that 1% lasted longer than DS, Hal Jordan Spectre and Batman but Superman lasted longer than 1% Mxy

So think about that for a second 😎

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by biensalsa
Not really Quan
Superman was alone in there. Will to live even when his heart was pulled out of his body.
I have to mention this.
Remember that 1% of Mr. Mxy power was still fighting Emperor Joker's will?
Well that 1% lasted longer than DS, Hal Jordan Spectre and Batman but Superman lasted longer.
So think about that for a second 😎

Yes, in that instance le lasted longer than the others. But in the Trans instance he went down easily. Batman and Hal lasted longer than he did. That means all these guys are peers and depending on the day/scenario they are all better/worse than each other. I give Hal the benefit over them alll because his powers are always tied to his willpower.

Lucifer simply wouldn't go down to the Trans. I don't see him faltering in any of these situations to be honest.

paisapower Senior Member

some more

Supes willpower is powerful enough to resist possesion from a magical entity powerful enough to have the Spectre in trouble (comments on his dreamworld prowess)

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Though it takes the Linear Men to free him ,this is still a good mental fortitude feet.

Dominus tries to fry his brain by having him go through Infinant experiences,a multiverse of awarenesses and the madnees that ensues

[/URL][/IMG]
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biensalsa DJ FrostByte

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, in that instance le lasted longer than the others. But in the Trans instance he went down easily. Batman and Hal lasted longer than he did. That means all these guys are peers and depending on the day/scenario they are all better/worse than each other. I give Hal the benefit over them alll because his powers are always tied to his willpower.
Lucifer simply wouldn't go down to the Trans. I don't see him faltering in any of these situations to be honest.

Fair enough, I do not think Superman "went down" easily, but like You said depends on the day/scenario

And I can see why You might think like that regarding Lucifer.

But Superman's will is to be respected and I might think You do agree to that.

biensalsa DJ FrostByte

Originally posted by paisapower
some more
Supes willpower is powerful enough to resist possesion from a magical entity powerful enough to have the Spectre in trouble (comments on his dreamworld prowess)
[/URL][/IMG]
[/URL][/IMG]
[/URL][/IMG]
Though it takes the Linear Men to free him ,this is still a good mental fortitude feet.
Dominus tries to fry his brain by having him go through Infinant experiences,a multiverse of awarenesses and the madnees that ensues
[/URL][/IMG]
[/URL][/IMG]

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