Forgot about my conversation with Tac on determinism earlier in this thread. Still boggles my mind how people cling to magical versions of free will that defy causality. We have far too high an estimation of ourselves in relation to the rest of the universe.
Clearly he wasn't convinced at my defense of determinism, but I rather think any burden of proof is on those who would suppose something outside material reality.
It's a flaw in my debating, both written and in person, that I tend to take the defensive on issues where I'm not the one making the burdened claim, allowing my opponent to make demands without being forced to similarly justify his/her position. I have yet to correct this, and it frustrates me.
Originally posted by atv2
No it's never ok. We are to flee from fornication. The way things are going we are programmed to seeing this as the "REALITY" just as making gay marriage ok.
This barely makes sense. We're programmed how? To see what as reality? And how does any of this tie into gay marriage?
I'm not the most religious person. I do believe there is a higher powers, yes.
I believe sex is right when you are ready. It's your choice when you are ready. I wish I would have waited until I met the current guy I'm with because now I'm having sex with someone I love and not someone I'm sexually attractive to.
Originally posted by immaturerainbow
I'm not the most religious person. I do believe there is a higher powers, yes.I believe sex is right when you are ready. It's your choice when you are ready. I wish I would have waited until I met the current guy I'm with because now I'm having sex with someone I love and not someone I'm sexually attractive to.
You're not sexually attractive to him?!
Jk, of course, that last sentence of yours is just awkwardly worded. 😉
This is the stance of most religious people though. And it's pretty uncontroversial. I'd go one step further and say that it doesn't require love to be "right." To me, sexual chemistry is part of a relationship, and can invigorate people or cause a relationship to stagnate. Obviously there's other factors, and more important ones, in relationships, that determine whether or not you're good together. But sex is still a significant part.
So, like, if I have no sexual chemistry with a girl, I want to find out. Not right away, but pretty early in the relationship. Probably before I'm "in love" (though it depends on the situation). It's a relevant point to spending your life with someone, or even committing to them for a significant period of time. And it's also healthy - burnt calories, mood enhancement, etc. - when done responsibly.
To put this into practice, I'd probably regret a one-night stand or helping someone cheat, but wouldn't regret having sex on one of the first few dates with a girl that I'm really interested in. Mind you, I wouldn't think the one-night stand is morally wrong (the cheating becomes murkier) but that's a different question.
Originally posted by Digi
This barely makes sense. We're programmed how? To see what as reality? And how does any of this tie into gay marriage?
I don't mean to step into someones post but I think he means biologically programmed to reproduce. As for the gay marriage tie the only thing I can think of is someone that is gay would be wired differently biologically then someone that is straight.....at least as far as reproduction goes that is.
EDIT: thats the only thing I could determine from it.
Originally posted by Digi
You're not sexually attractive to him?!Jk, of course, that last sentence of yours is just awkwardly worded. 😉
This is the stance of most religious people though. And it's pretty uncontroversial. I'd go one step further and say that it doesn't require love to be "right." To me, sexual chemistry is part of a relationship, and can invigorate people or cause a relationship to stagnate. Obviously there's other factors, and more important ones, in relationships, that determine whether or not you're good together. But sex is still a significant part.
So, like, if I have no sexual chemistry with a girl, I want to find out. Not right away, but pretty early in the relationship. Probably before I'm "in love" (though it depends on the situation). It's a relevant point to spending your life with someone, or even committing to them for a significant period of time. And it's also healthy - burnt calories, mood enhancement, etc. - when done responsibly.
To put this into practice, I'd probably regret a one-night stand or helping someone cheat, but wouldn't regret having sex on one of the first few dates with a girl that I'm really interested in. Mind you, I wouldn't think the one-night stand is morally wrong (the cheating becomes murkier) but I'd personally regret it because I know it can be more.
Curse my way with words.. But yes, I am very sexually attracted to him. We didn't wait a month to sleep together as bad as it sounds, but it didn't ruin our relationship as some people often says it does.
I do regret sleeping around like I did. I really wish I could take the majority of the men I have slept with back. Not because I wish Ryan was my first, but because sex with them really wasn't enjoyable. I was just pressured into doing something I honestly did not want to do, but didn't have the guts to turn them down.
Originally posted by BlackZero30x
I don't mean to step into someones post but I think he means biologically programmed to reproduce. As for the gay marriage tie the only thing I can think of is someone that is gay would be wired differently biologically then someone that is straight.....at least as far as reproduction goes that is.EDIT: thats the only thing I could determine from it.
Eh, maybe. But I don't concern myself with trying to decipher ambiguous posts that are poorly explained. If the poster wants us to respond to his points, he needs to elucidate them better.
Originally posted by immaturerainbow
Curse my way with words.. But yes, I am very sexually attracted to him. We didn't wait a month to sleep together as bad as it sounds, but it didn't ruin our relationship as some people often says it does.I do regret sleeping around like I did. I really wish I could take the majority of the men I have slept with back. Not because I wish Ryan was my first, but because sex with them really wasn't enjoyable. I was just pressured into doing something I honestly did not want to do, but didn't have the guts to turn them down.
This is a completely reasonable position. You did nothing wrong, imo, but would take back some of the actions, which is understandable.
I'm glad you're with a "right" guy now, btw. Cheers.
👆
Why did I just read through this entire thread.
The part that bugs me about the "premarital sex is bad because of unwanted babies" thing...people who make that argument seem to forget one very important fact. There are unwanted pregnancies within marriages, as well. Not every married couple is ready to have children at every point in their marriage. Maybe they don't want kids now, or maybe they don't want them at all, but just because someone's married doesn't mean the "okay time for babies!" switch has flipped to "ON".
Also divorce is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, if there are kids involved, it can be stressful and harmful to them. However, want to know what's more stressful and harmful to a kid? Watching their parents try and stay together for the child's sake when they really should not be together.
There's also the fact that sex is a large part of relationships. It's going to happen, likely frequently. Why would anyone want to decide to spend their life with someone without first finding out if they're sexually compatible or not? It's not even so much a thing like "so-and-so is bad at sex", but rather "so-and-so has completely different sexual likes and dislikes than I do". Having sex with someone should be fun and enjoyable. But if two people aren't compatible it can turn into a chore, where it's just frustrating because someone's needs aren't going to be fulfilled, and that sort of thing can eventually lead to resentment within the relationship.
Premarital sex is not necessarily a bad thing. The lack of sex ed, as well as the flat-out lies fed to people and the guilt brought on by the idea that all premarital sex is bad, however, is. And that sort of attitude can be very detrimental to relationships.
Originally posted by Digi
Eh, maybe. But I don't concern myself with trying to decipher ambiguous posts that are poorly explained. If the poster wants us to respond to his points, he needs to elucidate them better.
True I suppose lol.
Since I have already posted in here I may as well post my thoughts on the subject.
I think it all comes down to personal belief as this seems more of an opinion based question. I think for me personally I would rather have it with someone I have feelings for as opposed to just anyone but you do not necessarily need to be married. Although, I feel as if any take on the subject would be correct.
Originally posted by Peach
Why did I just read through this entire thread.
Lol. I frequently have this feeling. My apologies for contributing to the length.
Originally posted by Peach
Premarital sex is not necessarily a bad thing. The lack of sex ed, as well as the flat-out lies fed to people and the guilt brought on by the idea that all premarital sex is bad, however, is. And that sort of attitude can be very detrimental to relationships.
Well said.
Originally posted by Peach
Also divorce is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, if there are kids involved, it can be stressful and harmful to them. However, want to know what's more stressful and harmful to a kid? Watching their parents try and stay together for the child's sake when they really should not be together.
That may be true, but in regards to the debate about about premarital sex it doesn't serve to solve the problem. The fact of the matter is, as you have already admitted, divorce can be harmful to kids. If premarital sex increases divorce rates, then it is increasing something that is stressful and harmful to children. Whether it does this by causing more cases of two people getting together who shouldn't, or by somehow causing people to change more frequently, the point is it does it.
Originally posted by Peach
There's also the fact that sex is a large part of relationships. It's going to happen, likely frequently. Why would anyone want to decide to spend their life with someone without first finding out if they're sexually compatible or not? It's not even so much a thing like "so-and-so is bad at sex", but rather "so-and-so has completely different sexual likes and dislikes than I do".
You don't have to actually have sex with someone to know what their sexual likes and dislikes are, though.
Oh, and don't think I didn't catch your post Digi.
*cough*those who supply the argument must defend it*cough* 😏
Originally posted by TacDavey
Oh, and don't think I didn't catch your post Digi.*cough*those who supply the argument must defend it*cough* 😏
That's actually not true. Burden of proof isn't determined by who speaks first. Causality and physics is what we know. Magical free will that exempts human beings from the laws of physics is the burdened claim.
Originally posted by TacDavey
That may be true, but in regards to the debate about about premarital sex it doesn't serve to solve the problem. The fact of the matter is, as you have already admitted, divorce can be harmful to kids. If premarital sex increases divorce rates, then it is increasing something that is stressful and harmful to children. Whether it does this by causing more cases of two people getting together who shouldn't, or by somehow causing people to change more frequently, the point is it does it.You don't have to actually have sex with someone to know what their sexual likes and dislikes are, though.
Oh, and don't think I didn't catch your post Digi.
*cough*those who supply the argument must defend it*cough* 😏
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Repeat this to yourself until the idea sticks in your brain.
Premarital sex does not cause divorce.
Also I'd say that yeah, without actually having sex, you're not going to know what you like and what you don't. You may have ideas, but you won't know for sure until you try. Trust me. Been there, done that.
Originally posted by Peach
Also I'd say that yeah, without actually having sex, you're not going to know what you like and what you don't. You may have ideas, but you won't know for sure until you try. Trust me. Been there, done that.
I don't buy that for a second. I never had sex in my life until I married my wife and we've been as happy as can be with that part of our relationship for our entire marriage (over a year now). We never had any problems with "likes" our "dislikes" because we love each other and mutually care for each other's satisfaction. When you love someone, you adapt.
Not knowing sexual "likes" and "dislikes" are just excuses, imho.
Originally posted by Digi
That's actually not true. Burden of proof isn't determined by who speaks first. Causality and physics is what we know. Magical free will that exempts human beings from the laws of physics is the burdened claim.
You provided an argument supporting your side, and when I pointed out a flaw in it, you tried to suggest that I needed to supply my own argument and support it, if I remember correctly. You produced the argument, so it's up to you to defend it.
Originally posted by Peach
Premarital sex does not cause divorce.
It increases the risk of divorce.
Originally posted by Peach
Also I'd say that yeah, without actually having sex, you're not going to know what you like and what you don't. You may have ideas, but you won't know for sure until you try. Trust me. Been there, done that.
I see absolutely no reason to think that is true. If you had never heard of sex before then you might not know what you want or what you don't. This is almost never the case, obviously. Most people have spent quite a bit of time thinking about sex long before they actually do it.
I find the idea of people who don't have premarital sex staying married longer out of nothing but pure ignorance to be lolz. Anyhow.
Premarital sex is a superb, fantastic and an utterly awesome thing to do. I can't recommend it more.
Imagine marrying someone and finding out after the marriage that you're not sexually compatible. The horrors. For the love of God and everything that is good with the world, have premarital sex; also experiment a lot. Would you buy a car without test driving it? Goes to both the would-be husband and wife.
edit: I'm going on 11 years of marriage and 18 years total being with the same woman.
In my personal experience, there have been women that I've had horrible chemistry with and some that I had incredible chemistry with (my current gf is one of them). All I gotta say that I'm glad I found out before I did something as major as marraige as I would have HATED to be tied down to the women that made sex almost a chore.