Why I left Islam

Originally posted by SamZED
You were.. born muslim and left Islam a year ago..

No offence but I don't buy it. People who leave Islam (the ones who were raised as muslims) usually do it because they had some bad experience with it, real-life experience. You strike me as some random hater who surfs the web looking for reasons to hate it even more, then mindlessly copypasting large amounts of texts everywhere saying you used to be muslim but those particular quotes (you just found) drove you away hoping this way your post will make a bigger impact and idiots fall for it because they're just happy to see a fellow hater. 😬

Yeah, it's comments like that that give you away. But whatever...

Err no. People leave Islam because they've bothered to read the Qur'an and the Hadiths.
There are tons of them everywhere. The most famous one is Ali Sina.

I find it so interesting that Muslims cannot accept that people leave Islam, when they do, in massive numbers.

TheBigManRevo is a native Arabic speaker from Egypt. He experienced Islam first hand.

Yea 😄 Believe it's not as you think

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
Yea 😄 Believe me it's not as you think Islam of Europe is much influnced by the culture there so you don't see it clear

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Err no. People leave Islam because they've bothered to read the Qur'an and the Hadiths.
There are tons of them everywhere. The most famous one is Ali Sina.

I find it so interesting that Muslims cannot accept that people leave Islam, when they do, in massive numbers.

TheBigManRevo is a native Arabic speaker from Egypt. He experienced Islam first hand.

Ali Sina doesn't represent all ex-muslims just because he's the most famous one. And what is it that muslims can't accept? Stop generalising. They don't live in caves. People have TVs, internet etc it's not a secret to anyone save few beduins who live somewhere in a desert. Most of muslim know that but that doesnt bother them because even more people convert to Islam on daily basis.

As for TheBigManRevo - the guy whose main input to the religion forum was - "Mohammad wanted to have sex with dogs" doesn't exactly strike me as a dissapointed muslim scolar, more like a mindless hater who learnt how to browse internet and how to use copy/paste function. So excuse me if I find it hard to believe.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Sam's about to go Chechnya on BMR's ass.

it's your Choice 🙂

but What Exactly you don't Believe??

and What's Faith?!

Originally posted by SamZED
Yeah, no. It is the case sometimes (rarely) usually bad experience is the cause. Why? Because they don't have to "bother" to read the Qur'an and Hadiths. Most of muslims these days study religion at school the same way you studied history. They're familliar with all the quotes from young age. That kinda kills the possibility of experiencing a shocking discovery and leaving Islam because of it.

Ali Sina doesn't represent all ex-muslims just because he's the most famous one. And what is it that muslims can't accept? Stop generalising. They don't live in caves. People have TVs, internet etc it's not a secret to anyone save few beduins who live somewhere in a desert. Most of muslim know that but that doesnt bother them because even more people convert to Islam on daily basis.

As for TheBigManRevo - the guy whose main input to the religion forum was - "Mohammad wanted to have sex with dogs" doesn't exactly strike me as a dissapointed muslim scolar, more like a mindless hater who learnt how to browse internet and how to use copy/paste function. So excuse me if I find it hard to believe.

Heh nah I just was in a bad mood that day, but i'm calm now.

Show some evidence. You're just making stuff up, as most Muslims, you just can't accept that Muslims are leaving Islam, because they release their ''prohpet'' was a child molester, paedophile, rapist, raider (his wars were gaswah), murderer, assasin and a liar.
Anyone who has bothered to read the Qur'an, the Hadiths and the tafsirs and has two brain cells would know this.

Faith freedom international is blocked everywhere else in Muslim countries, but to ex-Muslims, Ali Sina IS the most famous one. He started the trend of internet exposure of Islamic ideology.
Ibn Warraq, Nonie Darwish, Wafa Sultan, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Walid Shoebat, Mosab Hassan Yousef are all better known than Ali Sina to the general western public.
IQ al Rasooli is also famous in certain circles.

What makes Ali Sina special, as I said, is that he and Ibn Warraq were the first ex Muslim to put up websites about the truth of Islam.

I suggest you do a bit of research on ex-Muslims, since you clearly haven't done any. If you don't like any of the above, I suggest you start with Amil Imani's testimony.

Originally posted by SamZED
Yeah, no. It is the case sometimes (rarely) usually bad experience is the cause. Why? Because they don't have to "bother" to read the Qur'an and Hadiths. Most of muslims these days study religion at school the same way you studied history. They're familliar with all the quotes from young age. That kinda kills the possibility of experiencing a shocking discovery and leaving Islam because of it.

Ali Sina doesn't represent all ex-muslims just because he's the most famous one. And what is it that muslims can't accept? Stop generalising. They don't live in caves. People have TVs, internet etc it's not a secret to anyone save few beduins who live somewhere in a desert. Most of muslim know that but that doesnt bother them because even more people convert to Islam on daily basis.
\

Does it not take context and experience to understand the things you are taught? Lots of Catholic children grown up learning the Bible, but it takes the reality of life and the knowledge of years to understand that what it says in the Bible and what is taught in the church do not always mesh. Why is it any different for Islam? People need to reach a point in which they can stand as their own persons before they can make the decision to step away from a religion that they now see to be incongruent with the truths of life. I don't see too many children with the strength of self to tell their parents, family, and friends that they don't believe as they do and are unwilling to follow contradictory practices, and considering that there are many adults who are still unable to differentiate truth from presentation I don't think it's surprising that people to don't leave most religions when they are younger.

Your assertion that there needs to be some "shocking" event to make someone go elsewhere is flawed. Is it any different than people leaving careers when they finally decide that the sum of their current life's work does not mesh with their beliefs or who they are as a person? Does their boss have to come in and order them to kill their co-workers for them to have a valid reason for going along another path?

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
Hello!
I was born Muslim but now I don't know really I'm trying find out which one is right
I've leaved Islam about year ago

Good for you in expressing your freedom of choice. The God given right in the Quran 2:256-

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."

I respect you for thinking and making your own choice in life. Your God-given right.

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
the killing-oriented verses

Kill them where you find them, pulled them out as turn where most of sedition and murder Tqatlohm not at the Sacred Mosque to fight you when the Qatlokm Vaguetlohm penalty as well as the disbelievers
(Baqarah 191).

And fight them until persecution is no more and religion is God if they desist, there is no aggression except against the oppressors
(Baqarah 193).

Hmm. Now I'm respecting you a little less. Because this seems like you haven't actually read the Quran, but you've just copy/pasted from some hate website.

You quote 2:191 and 2:193. If you just read your self you would know the very preceding verse 2:190 says:

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. "

And the funniest part is.. You've quoted 2:191 and 2:193, but missed out 2:192:

But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Hahahahaha... I wonder why you jumped from 2:191 to 193??

You would know this if you actually read the Quran yourself instead of going to a hate website to copy/paste.

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
They ask you concerning the sacred month fight. Say: fighting therein is a great and repel from the path of God and Kafr and the Holy Mosque and directed by his family from the largest with God, and sedition than murder and are still fighting you until they will turn you from your religion if they could, and Ertdd you about his religion and dies as a disbeliever deeds will be lost in this world and in the Hereafter, and those owners of the Fire they will abide therein
(Baqarah 2:17).

Again funny all you saw was these violent verses in the Quran and never anything good when just a couple of verses earlier 2:15 it says this:

They ask thee what they should spend (In charity). Say: Whatever ye spend that is good, is for parents and kindred and orphans and those in want and for wayfarers. And whatever ye do that is good, -(Allah) knoweth it well.

If you read the whole Quran like you claimed you would know any seemingly violent verses are put into context in surah 60 (did you get that far?)

60-8Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers.
60:9 Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them - (All) such are wrong- doers.

In other words show as much kindness as you can to good people. Only Fight back against Oppressors.

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
Ass Jihad is Anal Sex I know 😛

yes Mohammed was a Gay for your info

And this is where I've completely lost any respect I had for you. Is this the morals you've been taught after leaving Islam. If so I think I'll stick to my Religion thank you very much.

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
What is your Problem here
you just defending a rotten religion

I know What I'm talking I saw alot more than you think which lead me to leave Islam

From what I've read, you really don't.

I could actually go through everything you quoted, but you honestly don't seem worth my time now.

Peace Out.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Good for you in expressing your freedom of choice. The God given right in the Quran 2:256-

"[b]Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."

I respect you for thinking and making your own choice in life. Your God-given right.

Hmm. Now I'm respecting you a little less. Because this seems like you haven't actually read the Quran, but you've just copy/pasted from some hate website.

You quote 2:191 and 2:193. If you just read your self you would know the very preceding verse 2:190 says:

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. "

And the funniest part is.. You've quoted 2:191 and 2:193, but missed out 2:192:

But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Hahahahaha... I wonder why you jumped from 2:191 to 193??

You would know this if you actually read the Quran yourself instead of going to a hate website to copy/paste.

Again funny all you saw was these violent verses in the Quran and never anything good when just a couple of verses earlier 2:15 it says this:

They ask thee what they should spend (In charity). Say: Whatever ye spend that is good, is for parents and kindred and orphans and those in want and for wayfarers. And whatever ye do that is good, -(Allah) knoweth it well.

If you read the whole Quran like you claimed you would know any seemingly violent verses are put into context in surah 60 (did you get that far?)

60-8Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers.
60:9 Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them - (All) such are wrong- doers.

In other words show as much kindness as you can to good people. Only Fight back against Oppressors.

And this is where I've completely lost any respect I had for you. Is this the morals you've been taught after leaving Islam. If so I think I'll stick to my Religion thank you very much.

From what I've read, you really don't.

I could actually go through everything you quoted, but you honestly don't seem worth my time now.

Peace Out. [/B]

2:192 it speaks about who becomes a Muslim and the whole thing is about fighting non-muslim people even if they're peaceful

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Good for you in expressing your freedom of choice. The God given right in the Quran 2:256-

"[b]Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."

I respect you for thinking and making your own choice in life. Your God-given right.

Hmm. Now I'm respecting you a little less. Because this seems like you haven't actually read the Quran, but you've just copy/pasted from some hate website.

You quote 2:191 and 2:193. If you just read your self you would know the very preceding verse 2:190 says:

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. "

And the funniest part is.. You've quoted 2:191 and 2:193, but missed out 2:192:

But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Hahahahaha... I wonder why you jumped from 2:191 to 193??

You would know this if you actually read the Quran yourself instead of going to a hate website to copy/paste.

Again funny all you saw was these violent verses in the Quran and never anything good when just a couple of verses earlier 2:15 it says this:

They ask thee what they should spend (In charity). Say: Whatever ye spend that is good, is for parents and kindred and orphans and those in want and for wayfarers. And whatever ye do that is good, -(Allah) knoweth it well.

If you read the whole Quran like you claimed you would know any seemingly violent verses are put into context in surah 60 (did you get that far?)

60-8Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers.
60:9 Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them - (All) such are wrong- doers.

In other words show as much kindness as you can to good people. Only Fight back against Oppressors.

And this is where I've completely lost any respect I had for you. Is this the morals you've been taught after leaving Islam. If so I think I'll stick to my Religion thank you very much.

From what I've read, you really don't.

I could actually go through everything you quoted, but you honestly don't seem worth my time now.

Peace Out. [/B]

So I don't get your point Actually 2:215 is talking about different thing
and 2:216 says I've to fight it's an order even I didn't want to

and about 60:8 it's replaced Allah doesn't want this verse anymore because Mohammed became Strong 😛

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Good for you in expressing your freedom of choice. The God given right in the Quran 2:256-

"[b]Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."

I respect you for thinking and making your own choice in life. Your God-given right.

Hmm. Now I'm respecting you a little less. Because this seems like you haven't actually read the Quran, but you've just copy/pasted from some hate website.

You quote 2:191 and 2:193. If you just read your self you would know the very preceding verse 2:190 says:

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. "

And the funniest part is.. You've quoted 2:191 and 2:193, but missed out 2:192:

But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Hahahahaha... I wonder why you jumped from 2:191 to 193??

You would know this if you actually read the Quran yourself instead of going to a hate website to copy/paste.

Again funny all you saw was these violent verses in the Quran and never anything good when just a couple of verses earlier 2:15 it says this:

They ask thee what they should spend (In charity). Say: Whatever ye spend that is good, is for parents and kindred and orphans and those in want and for wayfarers. And whatever ye do that is good, -(Allah) knoweth it well.

If you read the whole Quran like you claimed you would know any seemingly violent verses are put into context in surah 60 (did you get that far?)

60-8Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers.
60:9 Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them - (All) such are wrong- doers.

In other words show as much kindness as you can to good people. Only Fight back against Oppressors.

And this is where I've completely lost any respect I had for you. Is this the morals you've been taught after leaving Islam. If so I think I'll stick to my Religion thank you very much.

From what I've read, you really don't.

I could actually go through everything you quoted, but you honestly don't seem worth my time now.

Peace Out. [/B]

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Good for you in expressing your freedom of choice. The God given right in the Quran 2:256-

"[b]Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."

I respect you for thinking and making your own choice in life. Your God-given right.

Hmm. Now I'm respecting you a little less. Because this seems like you haven't actually read the Quran, but you've just copy/pasted from some hate website.

You quote 2:191 and 2:193. If you just read your self you would know the very preceding verse 2:190 says:

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. "

And the funniest part is.. You've quoted 2:191 and 2:193, but missed out 2:192:

But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Hahahahaha... I wonder why you jumped from 2:191 to 193??

You would know this if you actually read the Quran yourself instead of going to a hate website to copy/paste.

Again funny all you saw was these violent verses in the Quran and never anything good when just a couple of verses earlier 2:15 it says this:

They ask thee what they should spend (In charity). Say: Whatever ye spend that is good, is for parents and kindred and orphans and those in want and for wayfarers. And whatever ye do that is good, -(Allah) knoweth it well.

If you read the whole Quran like you claimed you would know any seemingly violent verses are put into context in surah 60 (did you get that far?)

60-8Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers.
60:9 Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them - (All) such are wrong- doers.

In other words show as much kindness as you can to good people. Only Fight back against Oppressors.

And this is where I've completely lost any respect I had for you. Is this the morals you've been taught after leaving Islam. If so I think I'll stick to my Religion thank you very much.

From what I've read, you really don't.

I could actually go through everything you quoted, but you honestly don't seem worth my time now.

Peace Out. [/B]

Narrated Abdullah bin Malik bin Shuaib al-Layth ibn Sa'd told me my father about my grandfather told me Aqeel bin Khalid Ibn Shihab from Yahya ibn Said ibn al-Aas that Said ibn al-Aas told him that Aisha, wife of the Prophet peace be upon him and Osman Haddthah that Abu Bakr asked permission to the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him He was lying on his bed wearing atrichia so angry Ayesha to Abu Bakr and he is also he judged to need and then went away and then ask permission age so angry that he is in that state He spent his needs, then came back to him said Osman Then she asked him and he sat down he said to Aisha Gather your clothes you I spent my need then left him, she said, O Messenger of Allah Aisha Mali have not seen you afraid of Abu Bakr and 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them as dismayed to Osman said the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him said Osman shy man and I was afraid that authorized him to that state that does not reach me in the toilet.
True Muslim .. Book of Virtues companions .. Section of the virtues of Uthman ibn Affan may Allah be pleased with him

ell me-Hassan bin Ali Al-Halawani, Abu Bakr ibn Nadar, and Abdul Hamid bin Abdullah said to me, and told us the other two said James the son of Ibrahim bin Abi Saad told me benefit for me from Ibn Shihab Muhammad ibn Abd al-Rahman ibn al-Harith bin Hisham to Ayesha wife of the Prophet peace be upon him said wives of the Prophet peace be sent upon him girl Fatima Messenger of Allah peace be upon him to the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him Vastaznt him as he was lying with me in Mrti gave her permission, she said, O Messenger of Allah to you your wives Erslanna Asalink Justice of the daughter of my father and I am silent dipper said to her, said the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him any structure you like what you not like she said yes Vahba this arose Fatima said that when I heard the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him she went back to the wives of the Prophet peace be upon him Vokhbernhn Him who said he told her that which the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him Vqln see you have what Agnete us of something Fardjaa to the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him Vcoli him that wives Ancdnk justice in my father's daughter Fatima and dipper, she said God does not talk to him where ever he sent Aisha said wives of the Prophet peace be upon him Zainab girl colt wife of the Prophet peace be upon him, which was a Tsamina them in status when the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him did not see a woman never good in the religion of Zeinab and obey God and believe the newly delivered to the womb of charity and the greatest and the most vulgar of itself in charity work and bring him to God except Sura of the unit where the speed of which was said to clam the Vastaznt Messenger of Allah peace be upon him and the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him with Aisha in Mrtha on the situation, which entered Fatima is the Messenger of God gave her permission peace be upon him said, 'O Messenger of Allah to you your wives Erslanna Asalink justice in my father's daughter said dipper, and then signed my Fasttalt Ali and I watched the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him and watch tip Do you authorize me to the film said Zainab wand until I knew that the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him did not she would hate to be victorious when he signed them did not even Oncbha Onhat said the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him and smiled as the daughter of Abu Bakr
And Haddtnyh Mohammed bin Abdullah bin Gahzaz said Abdullah bin Osman Haddtnyh Abdullah bin Mubarak for Younis for syphilis in this cross-like meaning is that he said when he signed it did not Oncbha Otkhantha that the predominance of
True Muslim .. Book of Virtues companions .. The door of the virtue of Aisha, may Allah be pleased with them

revelation Comes to him in the guise of Aisha
Tell us Ismail said my brother told me about Solomon from Hisham ibn Urwa from his father from 'Aa'ishah that the women of the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him were two parties in which Party is Aisha and Hafsa descriptive and Soda, and the other party of Umm Salamah and other women, the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him and the Muslims have known love of the Messenger God's peace be upon him when Aisha If someone wants to gift to give to the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him even if he delays the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him in the house of Aisha His gift is sent to the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him in the house of Aisha, Umm Salamah, the party spoke to her Vqln Kalemie Messenger of Allah peace be upon him speak to the people say, 'Who wants that leads to the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him Vlahdh gift to him from the houses where the women of His Word, including Umm Salamah who said he did not say anything to her Vsalnha said what he said to me something Vqln Vklmah her house when she said to His words also did not at least have something Vsalnha said what he said to me something Vqln even talks to her Kelmah He toured to His words said to her, do not hurt me in the Aisha, the revelation did not Aotna and I am a woman in a dress, but Aisha said she repent to God of hurt you O Messenger of Allah, then they Fatima girl Don Messenger of Allah peace be upon him sent to the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him says that the God of Justice Ancdnk a tall woman girl in His words of Abu Bakr said, 'O structure do not you like what I like said yes so she went back to them Vokhbernhn Vqln she refuses to come back to return the girl Zainab Verslan colt Vogzt tattoos and she said that a tall woman Ancdnk God of Justice in Ibn Abi girl lifted up her voice even dipper dealt with Aisha, Vsptha base so that the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him for the consideration you spoke to Aisha, Aisha said Vtkelmt respond to Zainab pacified until she saw the Prophet peace be upon him to Aisha and said it girl of Abu Bakr
Sahih Bukhari .. Book donation and bounty and abetting .. Dedicated to the door of the owner and investigated some of his wives without some
Muhammad in the quilt Aisha
Narrated Abdullah bin Abdul Wahab told us Hisham Hammad told us that his father said, people were checking on Bhadaaahm Aisha Aisha said gathered Suahbi Vqln to Umm Salamah Salamah, Mother of God, that people were checking on Bhadaaahm Aisha We want to also want good Aisha Vmra Messenger of Allah peace be upon him to order people Ahdoa that where it was or where she is house of Umm Salamah mentioned that the Prophet peace be upon him she turned away when he came back to me said to him, turned away from me when he was three I mentioned to him said, 'O Umm Salamah not hurt
me in the Aisha, God, what it came down the revelation and I'm in the quilt of you other woman.
Sahih Bukhari .. Book character and .. Preferred Aa'ishah

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
2:192 it speaks about who becomes a Muslim and the whole thing is about fighting non-muslim people even if they're peaceful

Your just making that up. It clearly says in 2:190 "Fight those who fight against you"

I'm providing evidence from the very same few verses that your mis representing, by just posting all of it.

Whilst your just making up your own violent interpretation of the verse with nothing to back it up. The same page proves you wrong.

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
So I don't get your point Actually 2:215 is talking about different thing

Because it's surprising you found all these violent verses proving what an evil religion it is, and never stumbled up on anything good in the faith. Even when doing good deeds, giving to charity, helping people is clearly mentioned on the same page your quoting.

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
and 2:216 says I've to fight it's an order even I didn't want to

Some people were scared to fight back against those qppressing them, to defend their homes. It never once states "you have to kill people for absolutely no reason even if you don't want to."

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
and about 60:8 it's replaced Allah doesn't want this verse anymore because Mohammed became Strong 😛

Again you have nothing to back this up. Where does the Quran say 60:8 is abrogated. That's the thing with the Anti-Islam movement, they just make things up.

60:8 makes it clear that Muslims are supposed to fight against those Non-Muslims who were Oppressing them Driving them out of their homes, and attacking them for no reason except that Muslims were saying Worship only one GOD, everyone is equal, every race, Men and Women, in front of the One GOD and to do good righteous deeds in the name of GOD.

Whilst 60:8 makes the clear distinction between them and the people of other Faiths who were good to them. The verse is there to clearly make that distinction.

And this myth that Muhammad(pbuh) suddenly became a murdering Barbarian as soon as he became powerful is a complete lie.

Read about when he overtook Mecca how good he was to it's people. People who going by their tribal wars were expecting to be murdered, raped and sold off into slavery. People who had been insulting and attacking him for years.

He forgave them all. Only punished a handful who had committed particularly brutal crimes against the Muslims. And he took over the city with hardly any bloodshed.

He was powerful at that time and this was only 2 years before he passed away. So I'm not sure when this Powerful Barbarian was around.

Look at his last Sermon. He taught not to hurt others, to treat women well, to be good and just people, and to always remember every race is equal.

This was the highest level of morals and racial equality that Muhammad(pbuh) brought to the world fourteen hundred years ago!

It was his Last Sermon. I suggest you read it because it obviously couldn't have been abrogated. And puts to question this constant abrogation nonsense the anti-Islam movement brings up every time someone points out a decent, moral and beautiful teaching from the Quran.

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
ًI'm Sorry in those verses because I was rude but the Problem is it's a fact Mohammed was Actually a Bi
Narrated Yahya bin Yahya bin Yahya and Ayub and Qutaiba and Ibn Hajar said Yahya bin Yahya told us and said others told us they mean Ishmael son of Jafar Muhammad ibn Abi Harmalah tender and Solomon, my son left and Abu Salama ibn Abd al-Rahman that A'isha said the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him lying in my house, revealing the thighs or legs Abu Bakr asked for permission authorized him to such a case, he spoke and then ask permission age and he is also so angry that he spoke and then ask permission Osman sat Messenger of Allah peace be upon him and only his clothes, said Mohammed do not say it in one day when he came out he went, he spoke said Aisha, Abu Bakr came to him did not Thtc Tbalh then entered Omar did not have Thtc Tbalh then entered Osman I sat down and settled, he said your clothes from a man not ashamed to be ashamed of the angels.

Narrated Abdullah bin Malik bin Shuaib al-Layth ibn Sa'd told me my father about my grandfather told me Aqeel bin Khalid Ibn Shihab from Yahya ibn Said ibn al-Aas that Said ibn al-Aas told him that Aisha, wife of the Prophet peace be upon him and Osman Haddthah that Abu Bakr asked permission to the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him He was lying on his bed wearing atrichia so angry Ayesha to Abu Bakr and he is also he judged to need and then went away and then ask permission age so angry that he is in that state He spent his needs, then came back to him said Osman Then she asked him and he sat down he said to Aisha Gather your clothes you I spent my need then left him, she said, O Messenger of Allah Aisha Mali have not seen you afraid of Abu Bakr and 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them as dismayed to Osman said the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him said Osman shy man and I was afraid that authorized him to that state that does not reach me in the toilet.
True Muslim .. Book of Virtues companions .. Section of the virtues of Uthman ibn Affan may Allah be pleased with him

ell me-Hassan bin Ali Al-Halawani, Abu Bakr ibn Nadar, and Abdul Hamid bin Abdullah said to me, and told us the other two said James the son of Ibrahim bin Abi Saad told me benefit for me from Ibn Shihab Muhammad ibn Abd al-Rahman ibn al-Harith bin Hisham to Ayesha wife of the Prophet peace be upon him said wives of the Prophet peace be sent upon him girl Fatima Messenger of Allah peace be upon him to the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him Vastaznt him as he was lying with me in Mrti gave her permission, she said, O Messenger of Allah to you your wives Erslanna Asalink Justice of the daughter of my father and I am silent dipper said to her, said the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him any structure you like what you not like she said yes Vahba this arose Fatima said that when I heard the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him she went back to the wives of the Prophet peace be upon him Vokhbernhn Him who said he told her that which the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him Vqln see you have what Agnete us of something Fardjaa to the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him Vcoli him that wives Ancdnk justice in my father's daughter Fatima and dipper, she said God does not talk to him where ever he sent Aisha said wives of the Prophet peace be upon him Zainab girl colt wife of the Prophet peace be upon him, which was a Tsamina them in status when the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him did not see a woman never good in the religion of Zeinab and obey God and believe the newly delivered to the womb of charity and the greatest and the most vulgar of itself in charity work and bring him to God except Sura of the unit where the speed of which was said to clam the Vastaznt Messenger of Allah peace be upon him and the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him with Aisha in Mrtha on the situation, which entered Fatima is the Messenger of God gave her permission peace be upon him said, 'O Messenger of Allah to you your wives Erslanna Asalink justice in my father's daughter said dipper, and then signed my Fasttalt Ali and I watched the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him and watch tip Do you authorize me to the film said Zainab wand until I knew that the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him did not she would hate to be victorious when he signed them did not even Oncbha Onhat said the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him and smiled as the daughter of Abu Bakr
And Haddtnyh Mohammed bin Abdullah bin Gahzaz said Abdullah bin Osman Haddtnyh Abdullah bin Mubarak for Younis for syphilis in this cross-like meaning is that he said when he signed it did not Oncbha Otkhantha that the predominance of
True Muslim .. Book of Virtues companions .. The door of the virtue of Aisha, may Allah be pleased with them

You've quoted so many things it would just take me too long to go through every single thing. You can copy and paste from a hate website much more quickly than I can research the specific Hadith/Verse and respond. So it's just really not worth my time to do so.

I've just shown people how badly you misrepresented the very first "violent" verse you quoted just to show they can't take everything you say at face value.

I'm glad you've chosen your own path in life, I really am. But if your just going to purposely misrepresent the Religion and go on a hate rant then people will point hat out and maybe even correct you if they have time and feel your worth their precious time.

You haven't read a single Hadith, have you DARTH POWER?

And don't lie to me, just admit what you're regurgitating here is bullshit your Imam told you that you NEVER bothered to read about.

I bet you've never read a single, not a single page of Sirat Rasul Allah and I can bet $100 that you've NEVER read the Qur'an in it's entirety in the language you understand.
I also bet you've never read a single accepted tafsir in your life.

Everything you said is absolute, utter bullshit and there isn't a single evidence within the sources for you to support this.

You either know it's bullshit and you're churning this bullshit out in case non-Muslims are listening, or you're truly ignorant of it, so you're trying to bullshit Revo and me.

Please don't continue to insult out intelligence. Instead, bring forth the Hadiths or pages in Sirat Rasul Allah to support anything you've said.

Well these are no my Wordds these are Words of Galalin Tafser book Which is made by two big Muslim Scholars 🙂 read about your religion it's not that hard

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You haven't read a single Hadith, have you DARTH POWER?

And don't lie to me, just admit what you're regurgitating here is bullshit your Imam told you that you NEVER bothered to read about.

I bet you've never read a single, not a single page of Sirat Rasul Allah and I can bet $100 that you've NEVER read the Qur'an in it's entirety in the language you understand.
I also bet you've never read a single accepted tafsir in your life.

Everything you said is absolute, utter bullshit and there isn't a single evidence within the sources for you to support this.

You either know it's bullshit and you're churning this bullshit out in case non-Muslims are listening, or you're truly ignorant of it, so you're trying to bullshit Revo and me.

Please don't continue to insult out intelligence. Instead, bring forth the Hadiths or pages in Sirat Rasul Allah to support anything you've said.

Urm don't give me that I haven't brought any evidence to the table. I called BigManRevo out on his own bull by posting the full passage instead of a specific verse he was clearly throwing out of context.

He went from 2:191 to 2:193 purposely missing out 2:192. And purposely not starting from 2:190 which clearly puts that passage in context.

And I see you've gone a a mad rant without actually responding to any of the points I made. Did you even go read Muhammad's (pbuh) Last Sermon like I asked you to? And then come back to me about how and when that could have possibly been "abrogated".

Have you provided any proof that any of the verses I have quoted have even been abrogated.

Yes I do read Hadith's. But Authentic ones only. But I read them in context, instead of taking a Hadith relating to one issue, and making assumptions and proving something completely different from it.

Like your apparently disgusting Hadith you posted on this thread, which was just about Islamic Law saying Jews and Christians can be governed within their own religous law even if they are living in an Islamic country.

You however made a whole load of unfounded assumptions from the Hadith and made it mean something else entirely.

You talk big LilBitchiness, and like I said when you prove to me your more educated in Islam than 20th century and current scholars like Maulana Maududi, Yusuf-Al-Quaradawi, even western scholars like Tariq Ramadan, Humza Yusuf, Zaid Shakir e.t.c. e.t.c

When you show you even have a hundreth of the knowledge and education in Islam that they do, and show you've done more than just go on to Hate websites then I will take your opinion more seriously.

In the meantime I'm not going to take someone seriously whose:

1) Not addressed my points.
2) Just going on a hate rant.
3) Defending the person who I've clearly proved has mis-quoted so called "violent" verses from the Quran.

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
Well these are no my Wordds these are Words of Galalin Tafser book Which is made by two big Muslim Scholars 🙂 read about your religion it's not that hard

Please I don't need a lecture from you who can't even be botheres either reading or posting the whole passage. So go explain to me why you didn't quote 2:190 and 2:192 along with 2:191 and 2:193??

I called you out on your own bull just by addressing the very first supposed "violent" verse in the Quran you quoted.

So everyone else can judge how much they can trust you as a source on Islamic theology.

Well Again 2:190 is abrogated
and 2:`92 talks about being a Muslim
What now??

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
Well Again 2:190 is abrogated
and 2:`92 talks about being a Muslim
What now??

Is this really your argument?

2:190 sets the context for the rest of the passage. If your claiming it's been abrogated (which you haven't and can not prove) then that makes the whole passage null and void.

2:192 says "But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

Anyone with half a brain who reads the whole passage can tell you that's saying if they cease fighting, then leave them be.

Where exactly is being a Muslim mentioned in 2:192??

This is a prime example of how the Anti-Islam movement works?

Take verses out of context, and when you call their bluff they simply make stuff up.

O'REALLY
ُEl-Tabari
2:190 "Since blocking the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him from the house in Hudaybiyah and the benefit of the infidels to come back year disposable and vacate his Mecca three days and processed for Umrah judiciary and feared that do not meet the Quraish and fight them, hatred of Muslims to fight them in the sanctuary and the Ihram and the Sacred Month inn "Fight in the way of Allah" any to uphold religion, "those who fight the" infidels "and not transgress" They fight Balaptda "God does not love aggressors" What an end to their abusers and this abrogated verse or innocence, saying:"
2:192
""But if they desist" from disbelief and converted to Islam, "Allah is Forgiving, for them merciful with them"
Tabari
2:190
"Say in the interpretation of the verse: {And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you, but commit no Allah loves not the aggressors! Differed concerning the interpretation of this verse, some of them said: This verse is revealed in the first verse of the Muslims fight the people of shirk. And they said, is where Muslims fought the fight of the idolaters, and stop those who discontinued them, and then copied to "patent". Male Who said this: 2530 - told me Muthanna, said: Tna Isaac, said: Tna Abdul Rahman bin Saad, the son of Abu Jafar, Abu Jafar, for spring in saying: {Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but commit no Allah loves not the aggressors ! said: This is the first verse was revealed in the fighting in the city, and when I got the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him fight who fights him and stop him until I got the palm of a patent. Abdul Rahman did not say "the city." 2531 - Younis told me, he said: Tell us the son of the donation, he said: Ibn Zayd said in the verse: {And fight in the way of Allah those who fight against you} to last verse. Said: You may copy this, and read the words of God: {fight the polytheists all as fight against you all! 9 36 and this copier, and read: {innocence of Allah and His Messenger} until he reached: {If the sacred months kill the polytheists where Cdetmohm} to: {Allah is Forgiving, Merciful 9 1: 5 and others have said: but this is from Allah the Almighty said to the Muslims fight the infidels not copied, but the attack upon him is to tell them prohibitions on killing of women and strains. They said: It is forbidden to kill them fixed his day. They said nothing copy of the judgment of this verse. Male who said it: 2532 - Describe Sufyan bin and Kia, said: Tna father, for a charity of Damascus, from Yahya ibn Yahya Ghassani, he said: I wrote to Omar bin Abdul Aziz ask him about the saying: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but commit no God does not love aggressors} said: He wrote to me that it is in women and offspring and did not focus them to fight you. 2533 - Tell me Muhammad ibn 'Amr, said: Tna Abu Asim, said: Tna Isa, the son of my father Njih, the Mujahid in the words of Allah said: {Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight against you} to the companions of Muhammad peace be upon him ordered to fight the infidels. * Tell me Muthanna, said: Tna Abu Huzaifa, said: Tna cub, from Ibn Abi Njih, the Mujahid, like him. 2534 - told me the son of David, said: Tna Abu Saleh, said bending Muawiya, Ali, Ibn Abbas: {Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but commit no Allah loves not the aggressors} says: Do not kill women or boys or old man no one gave you the peace and keeping his hand, it has done this Aatdeetm. 2535 - Tell me I'm wire, said: Tna Amr ibn Abi Salamah, from Sa'eed ibn Abdul Aziz, said: Books Omar bin Abdul Aziz to Adi ibn Ertoh: I found a verse in the Book of Allah: {Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but commit no God does not love the aggressors' ie, not fighting Iqatlk not, I mean, women, boys and monks. The first of these two views is correct, to say who said Omar bin Abdul Aziz; because the plaintiff was not entitled to copy any likely to be copied without the indication of the validity of his claim control, and unable to control not one rejected him. The Dallalna on the meaning and the meaning that copies of the evidence before the health of copies as may be richer for it back in this position. Vtaoal verse If the matter is described thus: O believers, and fought for God and His way: the way indicated by the religion which has prescribed for His slaves. Almighty said to them: they fought in obedience, and what started you from religion, and claimed the crown from him, and arrogant with hands and tongues, even Innibua to obedience, or Aatokm tribute if they are young people of the Book. And ordered them to Almighty fight of it than fight a fighter people of kufr without those who have not had him fighting from their wives and their offspring, they are funds and authorized them if defeated fighters whom Vgahroa, that sense saying: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight against you} because it has permitted to stop those who discontinued, did not fight the heathens of the people of caffeine on the idol and fight the Muslims from the infidels on the people of the book to give tribute to young. It means saying: {and do not transgress} does not kill a baby or a woman not of given you the tribute of the people of both books and the Magi, that God does not love the aggressors! Who Ajuzun limits, Visthlon what Allaah has forbidden them from killing those who denied killing of the women of the infidels and their offspring."
2:192
"Say in the interpretation of the verse: {But if they cease, Allah is Forgiving, Merciful mean God said so: the end unbelievers who fight you for your killing, and their disbelief in God, abandoning it and repent, God is forgiving of the sins of a safe from them and repent of the company, and turns to God from sins by lent him and his days that have passed, by the merciful grace him in the Hereafter, and give it what gives people the reward of his obedience to his love of Banapth sin. Also: 2549 - Describe Muthanna, said: Tna Abu Huzaifa, said: Tna cub, from Ibn Abi Njih, the Mujahid: {} if they desist if they repent, {Allah is Forgiving, the Merciful"

Ibn kather
2:190
"Abu Jafar al-Razi on Rabee 'ibn Anas from Abu high in the verse, "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you," said the first verse was revealed in the fighting in the city when I got the Messenger of Allah - peace be upon him - fighting killer and stop those who discontinued it until I got al patent, as well as Abdul-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam even said this replicated by saying: "kill the infidels where Cdetmohm" In this view, because saying "those who fight you," but it is irritating and the lure of the enemies Hmthm fighting Islam and its people any as fight against you Vaguetlohm you also said "Fight all as infidels fight against you all "and said that in this verse," Kill them and took them out and where Thagaftamohm as turn in terms of "any Hmtkm to be emitted to fight them as Hmthm emitted to fight you and to get them out of their country, which as turn to them retribution. And saying "do not transgress for Allah loves not the aggressors," any fight in the way God does not transgress in that and that includes committing forbidden as was stated by Hasan al-Basri of mutilation and Alglul and killing women, children and the elderly who do not view them or fighting them, monks, and the owners of silos and burning trees and killing animals for non- interest as he said that Ibn Abbas and Omar bin Abdul Aziz and fighter ibn Hayyan and others and this came in Saheeh Muslim from Buraydah that the Messenger of Allah - peace be upon him - he used to say: "invade the sake of Allah fought disbelieved in Allah invade not boil nor Ngdroa not mutilate or kill a newborn or the owners of silos, "narrated by Imam Ahmad and Ibn 'Abbas said: The Messenger of Allah - peace be upon him - if sent his armies said:" Get out the name of God fought in the way of Allah those who disbelieve in God does not transgress not boil or mutilate or kill a newborn or owners silos, "narrated by Imam Ahmad and Abu Dawood narrated from Anas brought him in the correct from Ibn 'Umar said: I found a woman in some of the conquests of the Prophet - peace be upon him - dead denied the Messenger of Allah - peace be upon him - the killing of women and boys. Imam Ahmad said Narrated Mus'ab ibn Salaam told us Alogelh Qais bin Abi Muslim from Rabe Ibn Hrash said: I heard Huzaifa says hit the Messenger of Allah - peace be upon him - Omthala one, three, five, seven and nine and one tenth smote us with the Messenger of Allah - peace be upon him - for example, and leave Saúrha said that "a people who were the people of the weakness and palliative fought the people of force and the enmity fully demonstrating God's people doubled their Fmdoa to their enemy Fastamlohm and Sultohm Voschtoa upon them until the Day of Resurrection." this is a hasan hadeeth of attachment and meaning that those who are vulnerable as estimated on the powerful Vaatdoa them Fastamlohm with not worthy of their Oschtoa upon them because of this attack, speeches, and effects in this too many. Since the loss of the Jihad and killing the souls of men cautioned that the Almighty for what they are Mstmlon him of disbelief and polytheism him and told him about rollback and the most and the greatest and Otm of murder and said this: "The strife is worse than murder.""

2:192
"Any left, the fighting in the campus and so announce to Islam and repent, God will forgive their sins if they had been killed on the campus of the Muslims, it says God does not sin is too great to forgive those who repent of it to him."

El-Tabari
2:192 "For any fight you with faith, God forgive them all of the above, and mercy pardon them both what Ajterm, his verse: "Say to those who disbelieve, if they cease forgiven what is past" Anfal: 38]. Will come."
2:190
"Was said in what we interpreted, it is a court, either it is not only killing apostates or repentance, as well as the people of deviation and misguidance is not only the sword, or repentance, and the families appeared to believe falsehood then it is Kalzendik kill or be asked to repent. As outsiders to the imams of Justice must fight to go back to the right, said the people: meaning does not transgress in the fighting is the face of God, Kahumaih and win the male, but fought for the sake of Allah those who fight you, I mean we have a manifestation of the word, and said: "I do not transgress" no, do not fight of did not fight, for this verse to be abrogated by fighting about it for all infidels, and Allah knows best."
need anything

El-Baydawi

2:190

"😉 And fought in the way of Allah (struggled to uphold his word and his religion fondness) those who fight you (
________________________________________
"Page No. 476"
It was said that was before ordered to fight the polytheists all fighters of them and Mahadzen It was meant who Anasbounkm fighting and expect them to do so without the other elders and boys, monks, women or infidels, all of them, they process of fighting the Muslims and to his purpose and supported by the report, it was narrated that the idolaters repelled the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him ) in Hudaybiyah and Salihuh that because of the subject Vijloa his Mecca honor of God for three days and he came back to Amra of the judiciary and feared Muslims that do not keep their for them and fight them in the sanctuary or sacred month and hated it came down) and not transgress (the greeting of the fighting or fighting institutes or surprise by the non-call or mutilation or murder for the killing of Nhim) God does not love aggressors (he does not want their good."

2:192

"😉 But if they cease (from disbelief and fighting), Allah is Forgiving, Merciful (forgive them, what has already"

read your religion

^ Lol. This is exactly what I was saying previously that the Anti-Islam movement loves doing. They love quoting parts of tafsirs from people who lived a thousand years ago. People who can't answer back to them now.

Thing is your not understanding these tafsirs as a Muslim would have in those days, or as a muslim does now. Your just trying to prove something that never happened.

Muhammad(pbuh) never went around needlessly murdering non-believers or forcing them to convert.

I already told you read your history on what happened when he finally gained control over Mecca. Did you do that? He took over Mecca after his enemies had broken the peace treaties time and time again.

They were all used to tribal wars so were expecting a massacre when Muahmmad(pbuh) came and expecting to be sold of as slaves e.t.c. And yet what happened? He took over the city with hardly any blood shed, and forgave them all! Yes he forgave these people that had been insulting and attacking him from day 1!

And no he didn't force any of them to convert (although many accepted Islam on the spot when they witnessed Muhammads(pbuh) mercy from such a position of power.

You, Lil Bitchiness and the Anti-Islam movement are trying to portray an interpretation that has never been believed by Muslims and was certainly never practiced by Muhammad(pbuh).

Did you read his Last Sermon like I asked you?? Here:

“O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore, listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.

O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that He will indeed reckon your deeds. God has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. God has Judged that there shall be no interest, and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn Abd’al Muttalib shall henceforth be waived...

Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.

O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under a trust from God and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.

O People, listen to me in earnest, worship God, perform your five daily prayers, fast during the month of Ramadan, and offer Zakat. Perform Hajj if you have the means.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; white has no superiority over black, nor does a black have any superiority over white; [none have superiority over another] except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember, one day you will appear before God and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example, the Sunnah, and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and it may be that the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O God, that I have conveyed your message to your people.”

There his Last Sermon so try abrogating that. I've bolded the particularly beautiful and important parts. This was the highest level of morality taught to us by Muhammad(pbuh) 1400 years ago.