Originally posted by carver9
The flight wad stated as being a couple of thousand light years away and by the way, this was Goku at his weakest.I know of Supermans fts, I want to see if they know. I don't like debating against people that knows nothing of the characters they are debating for. Thanks for messing that up.
Then why didn't you just say that in the first place?
lol, no you don't. Cheeky beggar.
@Carver:
"I'll turn you turn you to ashes -- along with [the planet]!" "Prepare to die with this world you love!". Said by a raging Vegeta who can't survive an exploding planet and can't survive in space, so its highly unlikely it was a planet buster. To the below point; an planet exploding was a threat to 100% Freeza and SSGoku. I kinda doubt Vegeta > them.
..Superman having planetary strength is a lie or Goku not having it is the lie?
Moon < Planet. Point? He never states the Bomb weakened him. Either way this makes him, along with SSGoku at that time, a potential planet buster when at full power. Planet Vegeta's explosion wasnt shown on panel thus we don't know if it was another chain reaction feat. And I read through the fight, didn't see anyone state the planet would be destroyed.
Are you honestly going to use Supes low-end feats against Goku's high-end feats? So the black hole, supernovas and absorbing the energy that was going to destroy half the galaxy means nothing? Its only when a character does a single thing thats outside their feats, eg Roshi destroying the moon when stronger characters are well below that level, that it becomes an outliner feat.
If not we have Oozaru Vegeta having his tail cut off by a /normal/ katana wielded by a guy who is weaker than kid Goku. Theres also base Goku struggling to lift 40 tons of seeing Freeza throwing rocks at him to be a threat. On the other hand in all of DB we only have /one/ instance on panel where a character destroys a planet in a blast and not from a chain reaction; Buu. So by your view the average Ki beam are really just mountain busters at best,
So you can disregard Superman's feats, but you may as well ignore DB's single planet feat as well. And no.. thats hyperbole. You're taking a statement from a cocky character in a verse that has never 'sensed' a solar system ki level where the end results (aka Gohan's stronger blast) did not do as he said it would. Hyperbole. Also to think Cell is a star system buster while Buu saga SS1Goku (who is stronger than Cell) is only at a large planet level is ridiculous.
Dunno, somwhere on the net. I'm just catching the TV ones waiting to get to this damn ep. >(
Originally posted by BloodRain
@Carver:
"I'll turn you turn you to ashes -- along with [the planet]!" "Prepare to die with this world you love!". Said by a raging Vegeta who can't survive an exploding planet and can't survive in space, so its highly unlikely it was a planet buster. To the below point; an planet exploding was a threat to 100% Freeza and SSGoku. I kinda doubt Vegeta > them...Superman having planetary strength is a lie or Goku not having it is the lie?
Moon < Planet. Point? He never states the Bomb weakened him. Either way this makes him, along with SSGoku at that time, a potential planet buster when at full power. Planet Vegeta's explosion wasnt shown on panel thus we don't know if it was another chain reaction feat. And I read through the fight, didn't see anyone state the planet would be destroyed.
Are you honestly going to use Supes low-end feats against Goku's high-end feats? So the black hole, supernovas and absorbing the energy that was going to destroy half the galaxy means nothing? Its only when a character does a single thing thats outside their feats, eg Roshi destroying the moon when stronger characters are well below that level, that it becomes an outliner feat.
If not we have Oozaru Vegeta having his tail cut off by a /normal/ katana wielded by a guy who is weaker than kid Goku. Theres also base Goku struggling to lift 40 tons of seeing Freeza throwing rocks at him to be a threat. On the other hand in all of DB we only have /one/ instance on panel where a character destroys a planet in a blast and not from a chain reaction; Buu. So by your view the average Ki beam are really just mountain busters at best,So you can disregard Superman's feats, but you may as well ignore DB's single planet feat as well. And no.. thats hyperbole. You're taking a statement from a cocky character in a verse that has never 'sensed' a solar system ki level where the end results (aka Gohan's stronger blast) did not do as he said it would. Hyperbole. Also to think Cell is a star system buster while Buu saga SS1Goku (who is stronger than Cell) is only at a large planet level is ridiculous.
Dunno, somwhere on the net. I'm just catching the TV ones waiting to get to this damn ep. >(
Carver likes to lowball...a lot.
Eh, no. Flashpoint, the Brightest Night/Blackest Day, and the Killing Joke are the only canon books confirmed by the authors.
See this isn't a revamp like Crisis on Infinite Earths, Final Crisis and Crisis between your mother's legs. The only Superman to ever have existed in the DCU is the one that appeared in the new Action Comics #1, that's also why they restarted all titles with #1.
Goku creams Superman's fudge and doesn't even cuddle with him afterwards.
Originally posted by Effect Veiler
Eh, no. Flashpoint, the Brightest Night/Blackest Day, and the Killing Joke are the only canon books confirmed by the authors.See this isn't a revamp like Crisis on Infinite Earths, Final Crisis and Crisis between your mother's legs. The only Superman to ever have existed in the DCU is the one that appeared in the new Action Comics #1, that's also why they restarted all titles with #1.
Goku creams Superman's fudge and doesn't even cuddle with him afterwards.
Morrison's Batman is canon too. Several characters have had their history left almost completely intact.
Originally posted by Effect Veiler
Bob Harras have already confirmed it. There's nothing to argue.
You mean here, where he said that much of DC's history would be intact?
No, when he said that only Flashpoint, BD/BL, and the Batman story would be considered canon.
If you want to prove that Superman and the shitstain is canon you'll have to post proof for that.
It is you after all who want to use feats like Superman tea-bagging a black hole, so prove that it's canon. Don't worry, I'll wait.
@Bloodrain...
Do you truly believe Superman villains walk around with super nova punches when they draw blood from Superman or ko him? This is all common sense. You using space cheese FTs doesn't take away from the fact that Goku punching power and blast would drop Superman. You bringing up black holes doesn't change the fact that Kallabak or Despero has koed or challenged him on a consistent basis.
You bringing up Super Novas doesn't change the fact that Doctor Light has koed him with a blast along with other things as well. ON AVERAGE, non space cheese related fts, Superman isnt challenging Goku. You hiding from his battles, resorting to fts that doesn't partake in a battle between the two doesn't change this. Black hair Goku wins 10/10.
By the way, Vegeta had planetary power during the Saiyan Saga.
@Bentley:
This is the best physical attack from base Goku in the Freeza saga, looks like a city block or two worth of damage. The best physical feat in all of DB is this -> strike crash scale. Someone did a rough calc and put it at City busting force, less if the ki ball was explosive.
SS3 Gotenks has City busting strength, and he can effortlessly dominate the strongest form of Vegeta.
On the other hand, Superman pushes up a small planet with one hand behind his back.
@Carver:
Planetary power = Planet busting, min planet shattering, planet razing, life wiping = Anything between planet busting force and continental force(like that of a 10km meteor). Be more specific on which one you mean. A scan too, as I've been through the whole fight and nothing confirms anything above razing the planet.
I don't recall any character being able to one-shot Supes with a single punch. IIRC its after a battle with characters with Planet+ strength that he gets KO'd. For instance; you believe that Cell and up have star system blasts, but they get hurt from punches, so you think DB characters have star system punches? Being hurt and being destroyed/killed aren't the same thing. To kill Superman you'll still need to rack up a Star system amount of damage.
And this means you'll need rounds after rounds of the strongest DB blasts to at the very best knock him out.
We're using average Superman and DB? Means we gotta get rid of Clark's nova, black hole and that galactic energy absorption feats and lock him on the average planetary level? Ok, this also means we're getting rid of the moon busting from Piccolo and the one planet busting feat in DB from Buu seeing as top tiers are being beaten down with, at best, city busting physical attacks mountain level blasts.
Cool. So a Planet level Superman vs City/Mountain level DB cast based on these 'average' feats you'd prefer to use.
Originally posted by Bentley
What's Vegeta's best punching feat?
Just my opinion. Goku was able to bruise someone who survived a planet explosion while completely weakened, which is Freeza. Vegeta in Majin Buu saga is most likely much stronger than Freeza saga Goku. Sorry if there's something I missed here. I didn't read the entire post in this thread.
Originally posted by BloodRainI'll get to replying to carver later sometime, but I should point out that that is All Star Superman.
On the other hand, Superman pushes up a small planet with one hand behind his back.
