Top 15 Most Powerful Jedi and Sith

Originally posted by Major Valerian
ROTS Sidious is really that powerful. Few Sith before him would be able to take on Sidious and defeat him. Only the likes of Vitiate, Nihilus, and such. And please, don't go on to say Marka Ragnos. We can only speculate their power, no sources have actually stated how powerful they truly are; they are virtually uknown. It doesn't matter what you think, Kreia is not omniscient and her opinion isn't canon. Deal with it. And yes, he is 80%, in his Darth Vader machine-like form, post-ROTS. It is stated.

This is laughable. Siidous, by the movies, is not veyr great. he can use 2 handed lightning and throw senate pods, and margianlly move faster than he physically should do. that's pretty much it. there are at least 50 force users in canon who have deisplayed far more than that

Post source and statement please. It is mostly liekly an exaggeration or a joke or blatantly stupid as you cannot assign numbers to someone's overall command in battle it is like saying chael sonnen is 80% of anderson silva it is stupid.

Vader is slow and only has a fraction of his midichlorians, can use force choak and move things around. he is not powerful at all.

No, she won't. Being able to sense the future in the way that she does, which is purely by having Force visions, has nothing to do with combat. Predicting your enemies' moves is a completely different thing.

It is same rhing it is same aspect of the force just like force crushing an entire planet or SINGLE PERSON, either way the scale is different but it is using same skill.

No, he's not underrated, he sucks. Maul doesn't have a single significant Force feat, and he never demonstrates in any way that he is competent in that area. And, immune to force lightning? No, he's not.

Yes he is read the darth maul comics he walks through lightning with ease. A nightsister used it on him and he tanks it like a boss.

In a lightsaber duel, he probably does defeat him. All-out, no. Starkiller's command of the Force is infinitely superior to Maul's.

Not really maul just doesn;t seem all that great because he only concentrated as his skills as a warrior and force defence. As said he walks through lightning with ease.

Is it somewhere stated that this cut-content is canon? If not, and since it doesn't appear in the original game, it can't be considered canon.

It was in original game disc and it was due to mistakes/timing that it wasn;t properly programmed in. as said bioware endorse the mod project, helped them with it and consider it the true storyline.

Not anywhere is it stated that Atris mastered both light and dark side. Not even hinted. Being a 'premier historian' and gaining knowledge from ancient holocrons does not instantly make you a master of both sides. Once again, [B]game mechanics. Not canon.

Yes they are. They program abilities into her character to show that is what she can do. Canon.

My mistake there. Read what I said above about cut-content. And even if she did fight Nihilus, that still doesn't make her all-powerful. Why? Nihilus clearly didn't drain her, and if it wasn't for Nihilus' drain, he wouldn't be half as powerful. Battling Nihilus in a lightsaber duel means nothing. Nihilus isn't known for being the best duelist; as far as we know his lightsaber skills are not great.

Nihilus is sitll powerful without drain he holds his ship together and lifted the entire fleet out of malachor, his presence kills and corrupts and against sion he was able to use force drasin, lightning storm and telekinesis simultaneously. Atris represnts power of Trais and as already showed nihilus needs preperation to be able to drain entire planet.

You didn't even properly address it and just went on ignoring everything we have said.

I later rebutted what i said okay?

Already addressed above.

Didn;t see it.

Wisdom does not translate into force power... You're just making things up. When is this stated? Never.

When you finally do replay kotor2 with cut content check out character creatoion screen okay.

Mace Windu is stated to be Qui-Gon's equal in TPM. After that, Mace Windu did become more powerful, and Qui-Gon was dead. And what does being a 'much bigger character' (which he arguably wasn't) has to do with anything? And again, it is never stated he 'understood the Force better than anyone else'. Stop making stuff up. [/B]

In swordsmanship. As Qui-Gon is a consular who's forte was the force and windu was a swordsman that is veyr impressive. And actually, qui-gon was stated as being on par with anoon bondara, who was better than windu. and windu already had vaapad and shatterpoint in tpm and does not become much more powerul at all.

In movies qui-gon is portrayed as much better swordsman than mace as well.

No arguably about it he was much more important and much bigger a character than mace windu in the movie windu had nothing personal in the movies he was always on the sidelines and had few action moments in later films, in tpm qui-gon was actually a real main character with real character and motives and ideology and he understood the living force better than anyone and knew that anakin must be trained.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
This is laughable. Siidous, by the movies, is not veyr great. he can use 2 handed lightning and throw senate pods, and margianlly move faster than he physically should do. that's pretty much it. there are at least 50 force users in canon who have deisplayed far more than that

It is not laughable.

Sidious even by RotS is stated by various sources as "the most powerful Sith Lord of all time". Of course, this was prior to the creation of characters such as Vitiate, Bane, or Nihilus, but it is still to be considered when talking powerhouses. He took out three of who are also stated to be some of the 'best swordsmen in the Order' in a matter of seconds. Besides that, you judge only by what you see in the movie. It doesn't matter what he does or what he doesn't do against Yoda, it doesn't make him any less powerful. And it was against Yoda, one of the most powerful Jedi up to RotS. The fact that you regard Yoda or other Jedi appearing in the movies as 'not that powerful' is not my problem, and you are an idiot to do so since everything has been stated by various sources. I am not making this up, unlike you.

Post source and statement please. It is mostly liekly an exaggeration or a joke or blatantly stupid as you cannot assign numbers to someone's overall command in battle it is like saying chael sonnen is 80% of anderson silva it is stupid.

I don't have the sources with me, but I am pretty damn sure it has been stated. I honestly don't care if you believe me or not. You, on the other hand, other than planning out your arguments out of facts and statements, present them in a matter of baseless opinions and reckless assumptions.
And yes, yes you can.

Vader is slow and only has a fraction of his midichlorians, can use force choak and move things around. he is not powerful at all.

Vader is slow? You do realize the OT movies were made more than thirty years ago, right? Knowing this, don't you think technology and budget might have something to do with the fact that Vader is portrayed as slow as he is in the OT movies?

Seriously. Logic. Use it.

It is same rhing it is same aspect of the force just like force crushing an entire planet or SINGLE PERSON, either way the scale is different but it is using same skill.

No, it isn't.

Yes he is read the darth maul comics he walks through lightning with ease. A nightsister used it on him and he tanks it like a boss.

The fact that the lightning of a Nightsister doesn't affect Maul that much does not make him immune to Force lightning. The power the lightning carries varies depending on how powerful the one using this power is. This is demonstrated and also stated in the novel Revan. Revan is able to absorb and redirect Nyriss' lightning, but he isn't able to do so with Vitiate's lightning. Why? Vitiate's lightning is infinitey more powerful.

You really think Maul would be able to withstand Vitiate's or Sidious' lightning using their maximum power? Reconsider your argument, please.

Not really maul just doesn;t seem all that great because he only concentrated as his skills as a warrior and force defence. As said he walks through lightning with ease.

If he never demonstrated he is a Force powerhouse and it is never stated by a single source, you just assume he is. Assumptions don't make good arguments without any facts to back them up.

It was in original game disc and it was due to mistakes/timing that it wasn;t properly programmed in. as said bioware endorse the mod project, helped them with it and consider it the true storyline.

Unless it is not stated as canon, it isn't canon. Period.

Yes they are. They program abilities into her character to show that is what she can do. Canon.

No, no they're not. Seriously, you have to learn what the term game mechanics refers to. You have no clue of what it means, clearly. And you didn't address my point concerning Atris.

Nihilus is sitll powerful without drain he holds his ship together and lifted the entire fleet out of malachor, his presence kills and corrupts and against sion he was able to use force drasin, lightning storm and telekinesis simultaneously. Atris represnts power of Trais and as already showed nihilus needs preperation to be able to drain entire planet.

Yeah, without the drain Nihilus is still very powerful, forcewise. Swordsmanship is a whole other matter.

In movies qui-gon is portrayed as much better swordsman than mace as well.

No, no he is not. The fact that Qui-Gon is defeated by Darth Maul and Mace Windu defeats Darth Sidious speaks for itself.

Actually, judging from the movies alone, Qui-Gon is the better swordsman to Mace. If TPM had anything, it was nice fight choreography.

I still wouldn't say (judging from the movies alone) he's better. Mace's fight with Sidious is everything you need to know that.

No, Yoda's fight with Sidious is everything I need to consider Sidious above Qui-Gon. His fight with Mace was slow, cumbersome, and dreadful.

But that's irrelevant, he was still able to defeat Sidious... Judging by that, you'd still think Qui-Gon is the better swordsman? Judging by the movies, of course.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
It is not laughable.

Sidious even by RotS is stated by various sources as "the most powerful Sith Lord of all time". Of course, this was prior to the creation of characters such as Vitiate, Bane, or Nihilus, but it is still to be considered when talking powerhouses. He took out three of who are also stated to be some of the 'best swordsmen in the Order' in a matter of seconds. Besides that, you judge only by what you see in the movie. It doesn't matter what he does or what he doesn't do against Yoda, it doesn't make him any less powerful. And it was against Yoda, one of the most powerful Jedi up to RotS. The fact that you regard Yoda or other Jedi appearing in the movies as 'not that powerful' is not my problem, and you are an idiot to do so since everything has been stated by various sources. I am not making this up, unlike you.

I don't care abpout what your sources say they are wrong and whoever wrote them are stupid if they think those jedi are the most powerful swordsmen and sidious is the most powerful sith. I judge what we see them do and they all sucked Kit Fisto was a master of schi cho the most basic form, seasee tinn was first and foremost a pilot and agen kolar got his ass handed to him by quinlan vos who was a padawan at thr time. And worst if all, when you watch them the first two barely react and kit fisto's defence was terrible. Sidious did not look great, the jedi just looked terrible.

I don't have the sources with me, but I am pretty damn sure it has been stated. I honestly don't care if you believe me or not. You, on the other hand, other than planning out your arguments out of facts and statements, present them in a matter of baseless opinions and reckless assumptions.
And yes, yes you can.

This will not be good enough.

Vader is slow? You do realize the OT movies were made more than thirty years ago, right? Knowing this, don't you think technology and budget might have something to do with the fact that Vader is portrayed as slow as he is in the OT movies?

Seriously. Logic. Use it.

he is portrayed the same way in other media and George actually stated that he made him like that on purpose as he was a machine and lacked the fitness of a physical body. Not eveyrone can be a yoda and use the force to compesnate their phsyical deifniciencies.

No, it isn't.

Bullshit it stems from same power it is just using it with a different scale.

The fact that the lightning of a Nightsister doesn't affect Maul that much does not make him immune to Force lightning. The power the lightning carries varies depending on how powerful the one using this power is. This is demonstrated and also stated in the novel Revan. Revan is able to absorb and redirect Nyriss' lightning, but he isn't able to do so with Vitiate's lightning. Why? Vitiate's lightning is infinitey more powerful.

Lightning is lightning it will always have the same current and temperature. The difference is size but as maul could tank it on some parts of his body he can tank it on all parts.

You really think Maul would be able to withstand Vitiate's or Sidious' lightning using their maximum power? Reconsider your argument, please.

Aside from Force Storm, yes.

If he never demonstrated he is a Force powerhouse and it is never stated by a single source, you just assume he is. Assumptions don't make good arguments without any facts to back them up.

The way he tanks lightning makes him a force powerhouse imo as it was defencive application of force that was his speciality.

Unless it is not stated as canon, it isn't canon. Period.

If it is included in product which it was as the files were on the disc it is.

No, no they're not. Seriously, you have to learn what the term game mechanics refers to. You have no clue of what it means, clearly. And you didn't address my point concerning Atris.

Why program the charater with loads of imagianry powers unless they want to communicate that that is what she can do in a fight?

That she spends all ehr time learning from these advanced holocrons and then demonsrtates those abilities in the fights shows that she is a mastr.

Yeah, without the drain Nihilus is still very powerful, forcewise. Swordsmanship is a whole other matter.

If he could harm her with the force he probably would have. And he is dangerous in lightsabers too as he does not have a body he has no vital organs and doesnt feel physical pain, so he can keep going if you pierce the armour or destroy bits, the only thing you can do to compeltely physically kill him is to destroy all traces of the armour, or you can at least TKO him by cutting off his limbs. And we don;t know full details of their fight it could have been force battle as well and as i said atris both represents the power lost from the desturction of taris, as well as a true rival for nihilus.

No, no he is not. The fact that Qui-Gon is defeated by Darth Maul and Mace Windu defeats Darth Sidious speaks for itself.

See Lucien's post please.

And lol at idea that sidious is even half swordsman that maul is. Maul is without a doubt the best saber practitione rin entire star wars trilogies.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
But that's irrelevant, he was still able to defeat Sidious... Judging by that, you'd still think Qui-Gon is the better swordsman? Judging by the movies, of course.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
See Lucien's post please.

And lol at idea that sidious is even half swordsman that maul is. Maul is without a doubt the best saber practitione rin entire star wars trilogies.

Just.... Just leave, please. you hurt my brain after reading that.

I do not understand why some people think its "cool" to make sock accounts and troll people.

As a swordsman? Possibly better than qui-gon but definitely not maul.

Originally posted by Pwned
Just.... Just leave, please. you hurt my brain after reading that.

I do not understand why some people think its "cool" to make sock accounts and troll people.

This is not the first timr you've called me a troll, man. These are my opinion you dont have to read them if you dont want to.

Its not reading if you don't understand them.

Is English your primary language? I felt the need to ask.

No English is my second language I also speak Swedish. But I have been speaking it for over 20 years now so this shouldn;t eb problem.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
I don't care abpout what your sources say they are wrong and whoever wrote them are stupid if they think those jedi are the most powerful swordsmen and sidious is the most powerful sith.

“Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.” - (Vader: the Ultimate Guide, page 19)

This is written from a visual guide (which is not in-universe) making the statement valid and unquestionable. As I said, this was written before characters such as Vitiate, Nihilus or Bane were created. But it still carries a lot of weight, and it renders your so called 'arguments' null.

You want more evidence? Okay.

In Episode I Journal: Darth Maul, it is said that Sidious could “move faster than the eye could follow,” and wielded a lightsaber with such skill and precision that “one flinch, one involuntary twitch of a muscle” would have killed Maul.

Shall I keep going? Fine.

The Complete Visual Dictionary cites the three Jedi who accompanied Mace Windu as “a trio of celebrated swordmasters,” and referes to Windu himself and the assembled team as “four of the best [Masters].” The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia mentions that “Kolar was a tough combatant, and diplomacy was not his strong suit,” and that “Tiin was known for his foresight and ability to see the future,” and proclaims Fisto “a mighty warrior.”

Star Wars: the Clone Wars television describes Kit Fisto overpowering Confederacy strategist and feared Jedi killer General Grievous in single combat, despite Grievous’s mastery of all seven forms of lightsaber combat and personal training by Count Dooku (who is "one of the greatest swordsman in the 25000 year history of the Jedi order and became a better Sith."😉

He killed them in a matter of seconds.

Paraphrased directly from Gideon's Palpatine essay.

It's not about you caring, it is fact. There is nothing more to it.

This will not be good enough.

Actually, now I recall it was actually George Lucas who stated that OT Vader was roughly 80% of Sidious, in terms of power. So suck it up.

Bullshit it stems from same power it is just using it with a different scale.

Different scale? Once again, you're just making stuff up.

Lightning is lightning it will always have the same current and temperature. The difference is size but as maul could tank it on some parts of his body he can tank it on all parts.

Yeah, lightning is lightning. No shit Sherlock. I don't even know how to respond do this, I've already proven you are wrong and that the invidivual's power is highly relevant on this matter.

Why program the charater with loads of imagianry powers unless they want to communicate that that is what she can do in a fight?

For the nth time, game mechanics. You haven't even bothered to learn what it means.

If he could harm her with the force he probably would have. And he is dangerous in lightsabers too as he does not have a body he has no vital organs and doesnt feel physical pain, so he can keep going if you pierce the armour or destroy bits, the only thing you can do to compeltely physically kill him is to destroy all traces of the armour, or you can at least TKO him by cutting off his limbs. And we don;t know full details of their fight it could have been force battle as well and as i said atris both represents the power lost from the desturction of taris, as well as a true rival for nihilus.

In terms of lightsaber combat, he is a virtual unknown. There isn't any source or statement that gives us a grasp at his skills with a lightsaber.

And lol at idea that sidious is even half swordsman that maul is. Maul is without a doubt the best saber practitione rin entire star wars trilogies.

Once again paraphrasing what Gideon provided:

Maul was a master of Juyo, a lightsaber form that requires its user to be “a high level master of multiple forms,” according to Fight Saber and the Essential Guide to the Force. Who do you think taught Maul everything he knew? Read everything stated above. In order for Maul to become a master of Juyo, Sidious needed to teach him first, you know... Which obviously indicates Sidious' himself was a master of Juyo.

You lose.

Once again paraphrasing what Gideon provided:

Maul was a master of Juyo, a lightsaber form that requires its user to be “a high level master of multiple forms,” according to Fight Saber and the Essential Guide to the Force. Who do you think taught Maul everything he knew? Read everything stated above.

You lose.

Firstly, Maul was trained by his training droid among other martial arts experts and swordsmen. Palpatine did not have time to train him in lightsabers as he was too busy planning his takeover of the senate. He left Maul's training to others.

Second it is not just about skill. Maul as well as being skilled is incredibly athletic, possibly the most athletic person we ever come across in the entire canon. That is what makes him so dangerous, his physical abilities, his skill with both martial arts and the lightsaber, and his Force defence making him a very tough matchup for most jedis and Siths.

In terms of lightsaber comnbat, he is a virtual unknown. There isn't any source or statement that gives us a grasp at his skills with a lightsaber.

Read my post again please.

For the nth time, game mechanics. You haven't even bothered to learn what it means.

And what is purpose of these if not to design what appears in game? It is no coincidence that atris can use these. she was programmed with them for a reason.

Yeah, lightning is lightning. No shit Sherlock. I don't even know how to respond do this, I've already proven you are wrong and that the invidivual's power is highly relevant on this matter.

So it doesnt matter how pwoerful you are it always has the same properties no matter how powerful you are, only difference is how big but as maul cna already tank it it doesnt matter how much of his body is englufed.

Different scale? Once again, you're just making stuff up.

Different sale as in the moment of combat, the living force, and over long periods of time, the unifiying force. idiot.

Actually, now I recall it was actually George Lucas who stated that OT Vader was roughly 80% of Sidious, in terms of power. So suck it up.

Prove it. george also said that vader was weaker than all the ejdis we see in episodes 1-3 as well btw.

“Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.” - (Vader: the Ultimate Guide, page 19)

This is written from a visual guide (which is not in-universe) making the statement valid and unquestionable. As I said, this was written before characters such as Vitiate, Nihilus or Bane were created. But it still carries a lot of weight, and it renders your so called 'arguments' null.

So because the encyclopedia says it it is fact no matter what we see the characters do int he strories? I dont think so hun. I;m not buying it.

You want more evidence? Okay.

In Episode I Journal: Darth Maul, it is said that he could “move faster than the eye could follow,” and wielded a lightsaber with such skill and precision that “one flinch, one involuntary twitch of a muscle” would have killed Maul.

So what that is just force enhanced precision no way he can do that in a fight. BTW just before thet maul, when he was sick and starving, was about to kill palpatine in their fight but stops out of loyalty at last second.

Shall I keep going? Fine.

The Complete Visual Dictionary cites the three Jedi who accompanied Mace Windu as “a trio of celebrated swordmasters,” and referes to Windu himself and the assembled team as “four of the best [Masters].” The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia mentions that “Kolar was a tough combatant, and diplomacy was not his strong suit,” and that “Tiin was known for his foresight and ability to see the future,” and proclaims Fisto “a mighty warrior.”

More worthless encyclopedia quotes. The encyclopedia is to give general overview it does not rpelace the novels and comics and those are what we use for these debates.

Star Wars: the Clone Wars television describes Kit Fisto overpowering Confederacy strategist and feared Jedi killer General Grievous in single combat, despite Grievous’s mastery of all seven forms of lightsaber combat and personal training by Count Dooku (who is "one of the greatest swordsman in the 25000 year history of the Jedi order and became a better Sith."😉

Paraphrased directly from Gideon's Palpatine essay.
It's not about you caring, it is fact. There is nothing more to it.

Kit Fisto
defeated grivous was complete fluke and he had to tap into the darkside. grievous isn;t even that good anyway in a fair fight, and he doesn;t use the traditional forms as he uses his own customised four saber form. Another worthless quote for dooku btw.

awehuh

You're so stupid there's no way to even discuss with you.

Since English is not your primary, I forgive you for all the spelling errors and grammatical mistakes (English is a *****, and its my primary)

But, please, go read the books again. Then go watch the movies. You really do not know what you are talking about......

My response will probably be useless since you just refuse to listen and understand, but oh well. Here it goes, anyway.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Firstly, Maul was trained by his training droid among other martial arts experts and swordsmen. Palpatine did not have time to train him in lightsabers as he was too busy planning his takeover of the senate. He left Maul's training to others.

Oh, really? And where exactly is this stated? Oh, right... nowhere. You just make it up as you clearly have no rebuttal.

The whole concept of the Rule of Two centers around the fact that the master has to teach everything he knows to his apprentice. That is the whole point. If you're going to make things up, at least make them coherent.

Second it is not just about skill. Maul as well as being skilled is incredibly athletic, possibly the most athletic person we ever come across in the entire canon. That is what makes him so dangerous, his physical abilities, his skill with both martial arts and the lightsaber, and his Force defence making him a very tough matchup for most jedis and Siths.

This is irrelevant. Athleticisim has nothing to do with who is superior or inferior in terms of lightsaber combat. Yoda is probably the best example of this.

So it doesnt matter how pwoerful you are it always has the same properties no matter how powerful you are, only difference is how big but as maul cna already tank it it doesnt matter how much of his body is englufed.

That's stupid. It's like saying it doesn't matter how hard you punch a guy in the face, since it always has the same properties.

Different sale as in the moment of combat, the living force, and over long periods of time, the unifiying force. idiot

Your words don't make sense.

Prove it. george also said that vader was weaker than all the ejdis we see in episodes 1-3 as well btw.

When I find the quote, I'll be right back at you. He said that?

Prove it.

See what I did there?

So because the encyclopedia says it it is fact no matter what we see the characters do int he strories? I dont think so hun. I;m not buying it.

It's not about you buying it. It's a f**ing fact. And yeah, pretty much. Since that source is not in-universe and those words were written by an unquestionable source, it makes it fact. It becomes a statement. You can't question it, you'd be stupid to do so.

Oh, wait... You did.

So what that is just force enhanced precision no way he can do that in a fight. BTW just before thet maul, when he was sick and starving, was about to kill palpatine in their fight but stops out of loyalty at last second.

'No way he can do that in a fight'? Did you even understand the quote?

He is fighting. Against Maul. He's training him...

And what does that have to do with anything other than Maul being loyal? If you're implying he could've killed Sidious because he was more powerful, you're taking it over the edge.

More worthless encyclopedia quotes. The encyclopedia is to give general overview it does not rpelace the novels and comics and those are what we use for these debates.

The encyclopedia is canon. It's a source. It provides information about events or characters. It can be used in debates. I used it, and you have no rebuttal. Again.

Kit Fisto
defeated grivous was complete fluke and he had to tap into the darkside. grievous isn;t even that good anyway in a fair fight, and he doesn;t use the traditional forms as he uses his own customised four saber form. Another worthless quote for dooku btw.

First of all, what does the fact that he tapped into the dark side have to do with anything? He was able to overpower him, one way or another. In what way whas it a fluke, exactly? You have no argument.

Yeah, so worthless they are proving that your idea that the 'Jedi in the movies are not that powerful' is complete bullshit.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
My response will probably be useless since you just refuse to listen and understand, but oh well. Here it goes, anyway.

Oh, really? And where exactly is this stated? Oh, right... nowhere. You just make it up as you clearly have no rebuttal.

It is in very siurce you posted earlier genuis.

The whole concept of the Rule of Two centers around the fact that the master has to teach everything he knows to his apprentice. That is the whole point. If you're going to make things up, at least make them coherent.

Not every sith followed the rule of two that strictly. Not all of them taught their apprentice everything as some wanteds to keep some stuff to themselves and feared their apprentices becoming more powerful. And not all the elarning of a sith always comes form the master. Count dookue for example receuved training in the dark side from andeddu's holocron. TSA had to be trained by Proxy. It is same with Maul he had an assortment of trainers and rainign droids at his disposal. Sidious did not train him personally in martial arts or lightsaber combat.

This is irrelevant. Athleticisim has nothing to do with who is superior or inferior in terms of lightsaber combat. Yoda is probably the best example of this.

Yes it does. Yoda is someone who can use the force to compensate for his physical deficienciesh. Now imagine how good he would be without thsoe deifniciencies? You don;t have to be athletic to be physically good when you have the force on your side, but it does help. And Maul is quite possibly most athletic sith of all time.

That's stupid. It's like saying it doesn't matter how hard you punch a guy in the face, since it always has the same properties.

Read my post again. Moron. Lightning is lightning it has same temeprature and current no matter who summons it.

Your words don't make sense.

Nice reubattal genius. Just accept that it's the same catagary of power, just applied at different scales. I'm not saying it's the exact same thing. But a cross country runner will usually alos be a good sprinter.

When I find the quote, I'll be right back at you. He said that?

Prove it.

See what I did there?

What you did is play the fool jackass. he says it when referring to PT as Golden Age of the Jedi.

It's not about you buying it. It's a f**ing fact. And yeah, pretty much. Since that source is not in-universe and those words were written by an unquestionable source, it makes it fact. It becomes a statement. You can't question it, you'd be stupid to do so.

Oh, wait... You did.

The encyclopedia is used to give general ovrview of stuff that has happened and it usually uses informal way of telling information. So it will tell us events and techical facts and details but the other stuff is just informal, irrelevant filler.

'No way he can do that in a fight'? Did you even understand the quote?

He is fighting. Against Maul. He's training him...

No it is as maul is about to kill sidious and stops, and the fight is over. That's when it happens. he wasn;t doing it to moving target, noob.

And what does that have to do with anything other than Maul being loyal? If you're implying he could've killed Sidious because he was more powerful, you're taking it over the edge.

yes he could possibly as i said he is far better swordsman and he has awesome force defence.

The encyclopedia is canon. It's a source. It provides information about events or characters. It can be used in debates. I used it, and you have no rebuttal. Again.

Events and tehcnical details. That's it. You cannot jump on any word and terat it as formal and fact when the entire thing is mostly informal communication of events and technical deteals. You wnat dates confirmed, fine, it's great. WNT TO KNOW aTTAN rAND'S MIDI COUNT? sure it will do the trick. But it will not tell you who is more powerful when that is matter of opinion and value judgement anyway. Some people are skilled with the physical aspects of the force like tk and lightning. others with mind tricks and persuassion. others are gifted seers. there are people with unique abilities and unique talents. people with amazing defence, people with amazing offence. people who sue the force on themselves really well, people who are great with illusions. people cho have affinintiy with sorcery, people who cant do tk but can absorb energy.

There is huge variety of skills and differentr aspects of the force that cannot be mathematically compared. How do you compare bane's feat of destroying a tmeple and trayas feat of seing over 7 thousand years into future? You cannot, and so it will always be opinion of who's unique set of skills makes them the most powerful.

First of all, what does the fact that he tapped into the dark side have to do with anything?

becuse he did not against sidious so it is not how he was in his fight with sidious.

He was able to overpower him, one way or another. In what way whas it a fluke, exactly? You have no argument.

It was burst of darkside driven power and he still only delayed grievous' attack and slightly sdiabled him, he didnt kill him or capture him and grievous was whooping his ass for most of the fight before.

Yeah, so worthless they are proving that your idea that the 'Jedi in the movies are not that powerful' is complete bullshit.

Learn to analyse the original soruces itself then in act of desperation scouring encyclopedias for random statements that will support your argument.

Why are you still talking to him? Just do as I do, and laugh him off.