My final view of this match:
I change my mind. Even though I am not impressed with the MAO's, I feel they have more power at their command than PF.
I believe that the Galactus Engine was simply a weapon used by the MAO's, channeling their energy. And, although I was not impressed with the Galactus Engine, it still seemed to give the 616'ers more trouble than the Phoenix would give all of them.
Because I am a Shuma/Cthulhu fan, I am open to the assumption that somewhere out there, the MAO's are still potentially much more powerful than we have seen.
But...
They did not show it.
Within that story arc, there are 2 major occurrences that are the most telling of power.
The performance of the Galactus Engine and the Trump of 616 Death and Thanos.
I will leave you to decide what those 2 occurrences tell us.
But, for me, they lead me to consider 2 possibilities:
1.Uber-Powerful MAO's > PF
If they are the ultra powerful beings that should/could dwarf the 616'ers, then they did not "actively" take part in the invasion and it was possibly, just a side-note in their activities.
Meaning, they are laughing somewhere, and didn't even try. Yet.
This doesn't really help us in this match, because we still can't gauge properly since, as I have said before, the abstracts that were in the war-zone, were being attacked by numerous entities and weapons simultaneously as they strained to block entrance of the Galactus Engine.
or
2.Blah-Powerful MAO's are still > PF
The descriptions of size and power were greatly exaggerated, or, did not even matter when pitted against the 616'ers.
Their entire universe on the warpath was unable to do much more than put a scare into the 616. With a few casualties, of course. But, nothing that would show that there was a war between equal opponents.
And, of course, Death and Thanos, single-handedly, brought down the entire Cancerverse Invasion, stopping it short.
The problem with this feat, is that it would not have worked against the 616 abstracts that were assembled.
And, what does that tell you?
But, even in this case, the watered-down MAO's gave a better showing than PF would have.
And, if this scenario is true, the Galactus Engine would have to be the most powerful, (if mindless) "thing" that the Cancerverse had to offer. And, the MAO's were hiding somewhere dark and smelly.
In my humble opinion.
Originally posted by Horrificus
My final view of this match:I change my mind. Even though I am not impressed with the MAO's, I feel they have more power at their command than PF.
I believe that the Galactus Engine was simply a weapon used by the MAO's, channeling their energy. And, although I was not impressed with the Galactus Engine, it still seemed to give the 616'ers more trouble than the Phoenix would give all of them.
Because I am a Shuma/Cthulhu fan, I am open to the assumption that somewhere out there, the MAO's are still potentially much more powerful than we have seen.
But...
They did not show it.
Within that story arc, there are 2 major occurrences that are the most telling of power.
The performance of the Galactus Engine and the Trump of 616 Death and Thanos.
I will leave you to decide what those 2 occurrences tell us.
But, for me, they lead me to consider 2 possibilities:
[b]1.
Uber-Powerful MAO's > PF
If they are the ultra powerful beings that should/could dwarf the 616'ers, then they did not "actively" take part in the invasion and it was possibly, just a side-note in their activities.Meaning, they are laughing somewhere, and didn't even try. Yet.
This doesn't really help us in this match, because we still can't gauge properly since, as I have said before, the abstracts that were in the war-zone, were being attacked by numerous entities and weapons simultaneously as they strained to block entrance of the Galactus Engine.
or
2.Blah-Powerful MAO's are still > PF
The descriptions of size and power were greatly exaggerated, or, did not even matter when pitted against the 616'ers.Their entire universe on the warpath was unable to do much more than put a scare into the 616. With a few casualties, of course. But, nothing that would show that there was a war between equal opponents.
And, of course, Death and Thanos, single-handedly, brought down the entire Cancerverse Invasion, stopping it short.
The problem with this feat, is that it would not have worked against the 616 abstracts that were assembled.
And, what does that tell you?
But, even in this case, the watered-down MAO's gave a better showing than PF would have.
And, if this scenario is true, the Galactus Engine would have to be the most powerful, (if mindless) "thing" that the Cancerverse had to offer. And, the MAO's were hiding somewhere dark and smelly.
In my humble opinion. [/B]
Except the Kree's detected far bigger and more powerful entities than the Galactus Engine coming through the Fault.
if this match is in the cancerverse (since we've never seen the MAO outside of the cancerverse) what is the PF going to do to entities who perpetuate life, while the PF relies on life to die and be reborn? The PF draws power from the life force/life essence that has *yet* to be born into the universe. In the Cancerverse, there is no "yet-to-be-born" because nothing dies. The PF would have no power there.
Originally posted by Horrificus
[b]1.Uber-Powerful MAO's > PF
If they are the ultra powerful beings that should/could dwarf the 616'ers, then they did not "actively" take part in the invasion and it was possibly, just a side-note in their activities.Meaning, they are laughing somewhere, and didn't even try. Yet.
This doesn't really help us in this match, because we still can't gauge properly since, as I have said before, the abstracts that were in the war-zone, were being attacked by numerous entities and weapons simultaneously as they strained to block entrance of the Galactus Engine.
[/B]
Great post. I'm also a Lovecraft fan and it's obvious that the forces consuming the Cancerverse were similar creatures.
I imagine scenario 1 was the occurrence. The creatures pouring through the Fault were fodder yet they overwhelmed the Celestials and Galactus. The Galactus Engine was just a zombified battering ram.
But the actual Ancient Ones involved in the infestation of the Cancerverse were in their own realms. Hence CthonicMarvel channeling them during the Death ceremony. They already defeated all opposition in that particular universe. Including an Abstract being. Then comes another excellent response.
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
if this match is in the cancerverse (since we've never seen the MAO outside of the cancerverse) what is the PF going to do to entities who perpetuate life, while the PF relies on life to die and be reborn? The PF draws power from the life force/life essence that has *yet* to be born into the universe. In the Cancerverse, there is no "yet-to-be-born" because nothing dies. The PF would have no power there.
Pretty much. And Thor recently hurt the PF's tail. And Thor in this universe is an unkillable enemy along with everything else.
I just see them overwhelming the Phoenix and it having to escape or die. Only to be reborn elsewhere another day.
The MAO seems to work as universal entities that could replace the primary powers in the absence of abstracts. They don't really come off anything more than really powerful entities that are not quite as powerful as actual abstracts considering death being reintroduced to the cancerverse effectively seemed to cancel them out.
Against ole regular showings galactic destroying PF, the many angled ones might probably win but i very much doubt against the multiversal PF that was seen in Morrison's run.
I'm not sure we should call it that.
I mean being able to psychically mind phuck someone from 150 years away is impressive,
but "multiversal" would imply the PF can take out UniverseS simultaneously,
and that's never been the case.
The best showings the PF has,
under it's own power without any stipulation or external amp,
are in two "What if" issues. (back, ... back in the day)
There, in those two instances,
the PF destroyed all the contents within those alternate realities,
(planets/stars/galaxies etc including Jean)
but it never destroyed space-time (those alternate Eternitys)
Just sayin.
That aside, the recent showings are of the PF manifesting at its most powerful.
That host-less fire-bird avatar is as good as it gets,
and Thor damaged it, and said it could be defeated based on his battle with it,
on top of Odin's enchantments being hinted as possibly superseding the PF.
Also, look at how an alternate Reality PF + Jean get obliterated now a days:
Grant it it's an alternate Reed getting the job done, but hey, just sayin friends.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm not sure we should call it that.I mean being able to psychically mind phuck someone from 150 years away is impressive,
but "multiversal" would imply the PF can take out UniverseS simultaneously,
and that's never been the case.The best showings the PF has,
under it's own power without any stipulation or external amp,
are in two "What if" issues. (back, ... back in the day)There, in those two instances,
the PF destroyed all the contents within those alternate realities,
(planets/stars/galaxies etc including Jean)
but it never destroyed space-time (those alternate Eternitys)Just sayin.
That aside, the recent showings are of the PF manifesting at its most powerful.
That [b]host-less
fire-bird avatar is as good as it gets,
and Thor damaged it, and said it could be defeated based on his battle with it,
on top of Odin's enchantments being hinted as possibly superseding the PF.Also, look at how an alternate Reality PF + Jean get obliterated now a days:
Grant it it's an alternate Reed getting the job done, but hey, just sayin friends. [/B]
Hmm well that's fine and everything however I've always assumed multiversal = being able to operate in a multiversal scale and not =multiverse-instantaneous snuffing out threat. Anyway I'll consider "multiversal" open to interpretation as there really isn't any definitive classification for such.
Originally posted by ctsketch
The MAO took out an abstract.......... I think they win
As soon as Death was introduced again (makes no sense), she literally wiped out the entire Cancerverse universe, crippled ALL the Old Ones, AND annihilated the Cancerverse forces that had poured through the Fault and entered 616 reality and claimed two parsecs of space (that's a pretty HUGE area in 616 universe).
Originally posted by CortSether
Galactus Engine solos.Heck, if one of the MAO's that Lord Mar-vell summoned was really Shuma-Gorath, Shuma solo's too.
Originally posted by CortSether
Get back to me when it takes some pathetic Shi'ar weaponry to shatter Shuma into pieces just like it did to the Phoenix Force. Better yet, get back to me when freakin' Thor is able to harm Shuma.
