Supergirl Vs Maxima

Originally posted by carver9
Seen some stuff in the respect thread by Maxima that I forgot about (good thread by the way Galan). I'm undecided.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
I can see Maxima putting Kara down with a combination of telepathy, telekinesis and her ferrokinesis. She can go hand 2 hand and hold her own against Kara long enough to use those abilities. If she decides to just catfight Kara(droolio) she loses.

I hope they bring Maxima back in the new DCU

I hope so too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I can't think of any fight where she looked better than superman save for her first fight with him.

Maxima, Supergirl is good but Maxima has her number

Originally posted by Galan007
Thanks. 🙂

That's how I see it going down as well. There is absolutely no way I will buy-off on Kara 'tanking' Max's TP or TK. Phuck no.

I hope so too.

I suggest you think harder, then. uhuh

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Maxima, Supergirl is good but Maxima has her number

When do I get to see the action then ?

Originally posted by Galan007
That scene actually had nothing to do with Erads. It was a mental illusion Max cast into his mind in an effort to get Clark to love her. She could have mindraped him if she wanted.

No, I'm talking about Eradicator's influence over his personality. See here.

"Sazu was right after all. You ARE unworthy of the bloodline...but not because you are overly merciful...far from it! You have become heartless, PASSIONLESS! Whatever fire that once lurked within has been ERRADICTAED, replaced by a presence of horribe STERILITY! I'll not find a vital mate in so COLD a knave!"

And then check how Superman's talking in the next panel. Much more coldly logical in personality.

Originally posted by Galan007
Either way, do you really want me to post a few of her better fights against Superman, in which she came out looking better than him? Do you want me to then post Kara's battle against a drastically holding-back Superman as a point of comparison? C'mon. Let's not judge an entire theoretical fight by a single low showing. srsly

You call it a low showing. To me it looks more like Superman not holding back like he normally does. And there's numerous other examples to support this. But your point about comparing Kara's battle is an inaccurate counter-argument. Superman has had multiple power-ups since the backhanded one-shot I gave for Maxima.

Originally posted by Galan007
KMC rules state that a character will fight to the best of their ability, so long as the tactics they use are still in character for them. On numerous occasions, Maxima has shown that using her psi-abilities (namely TP and TK) is one of her favored tactics--moreso than even fisticuffs. Therefore, I see no reason to assume that she wouldn't use at least some of those abilities here.

Additionally, I doubt the thread starter made this thread with the intention that Max wouldn't use any of her exotic powers.

Yeah, and while I'm sure you've read more of Maxima than I have, I haven't seen her effectively use her psionic powers to the point that I think it'd make a big enough difference in fights where she's rather angry with Superman, or against other characters. So I am arguing for her fighting in-character from what I've seen.

Maxima.

You can close this now.

Originally posted by Delta1938
You call it a low showing. To me it looks more like Superman not holding back like he normally does. And there's numerous other examples to support this.

It makes me chuckle that you are using it as Maxima's durability-gauge.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Yeah, and while I'm sure you've read more of Maxima than I have, I haven't seen her effectively use her psionic powers to the point that I think it'd make a big enough difference in fights where she's rather angry with Superman, or against other characters. So I am arguing for her fighting in-character from what I've seen.

Prepare for a scan-blitz...

Originally posted by Galan007
Mentally incapacitates Orion:

---

After his connection to Warworld was severed, Maxima mentally incapacitates Brainiac 5:

Originally posted by Galan007
Mentally incapacitates Dr. Polaris:

Originally posted by Galan007
Mentally incapacitates a quantum-energy-enhanced Booster Gold:

---

Mentally incapacitates Brainwave II:

Originally posted by Galan007
Despite being weakened in a previous battle with Starbreaker, Maxima successfully utilized her TK to pull massive fissures together, as a means to save a crumbling planet:

Originally posted by Galan007
Owns Captain Atom with a psi-bolt:

---

A psi-bolt appeared sufficient to harm Captain Marvel as well:

---

Owns Power Girl:

---

And Superman:

Galan has been awakened!

And there's a LOT more where that came from.

Suffice to say, Max likes using her psi-powers.

Tbh, I think if this stays purely physical, it's an arena in which Kara can compete. But it's pretty obvious that Maxima isn't going to do that.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Tbh, I think if this stays purely physical, it's an arena in which Kara can compete.

But it's pretty obvious that Maxima isn't going to do that.

Yeah, especially in a vs. battle, Max certainly wouldn't keep it physical. Mind-phuckery would be the easiest/most reliable method to use agains Kara, me thinks. That, or repeated psi-bolts.

...Or BFR. /shrug

Maxima SHOULD win this.

Originally posted by Galan007
It IS a low showing. A VERY low showing, in fact. Maxima has tanked punches from Superman and DoS Doomsday (among others), without being incapacitated--yet a single backhand does it in that comic? PIS of the highest order.

It makes me chuckle that you are using it as Maxima's durability-gauge.

😂 You need to read up on Maxima then.

Prepare for a scan-blitz...

So it's a low showing for Maxima, but not a high showing for her tanking punches from Doomsday? But, I literally just went through all her appearances in the DOS TPB, twice, and didn't find her tanking a single attack from Doomsday.

As for the scans, actually I'm aware of the PANIC IN THE SKIES examples. On the Brainiac example, you left-out how she did that after previously fighting him when he WAS amped(like a thousand times I think he said) and though losing, that would make her less than peak when she does beat him after it's severed.

The Doctor Polaris example is new to me though.

And I'm not dismissing the scans for Brainwave and Booster Gold, but asking why should I be impressed. I dunno how powerful Brainwave is, and have no idea what the "quantum-energy enhancement" did, or if it even made her mental assault more impressive.

But I've seen that example of her blasting Superman. He was hurt, but not taken down, let alone owned. But aside from the psi-bolts, I'm not really seeing anything to indicate her using her mental powers as effectively as you're arguing against Kara. She's largely using her telepathy against either other telepaths or those with more exotic abilities. And granted, I don't know if Kara's had dealing with telepathy, but I think part of Superman's resistance to telepathic attack and whatnot is how a Kryptonian mind works, so if the case, Kara would have at least a degree of resistance.

Originally posted by Galan007
I agree. Kara would eventually win if Max was limited to a physical brawl--like I said though, I don't feel that the gap in strength between them would be very significant one way or the other (the ease in which Max physically restrained Orion for a moment before mind-phucking him helped me come to that opinion.)

Yeah, especially in a vs. battle, Max certainly wouldn't keep it physical. Mind-phuckery would be the easiest/most reliable method to use agains Kara, me thinks. That, or repeated psi-bolts.

...Or BFR. /shrug

How would Maxima BFR someone who can fly FTL? Can she teleport others?

Originally posted by Delta1938
So it's a low showing for Maxima, but not a high showing for her tanking punches from Doomsday? But, I literally just went through all her appearances in the DOS TPB, twice, and didn't find her tanking a single attack from Doomsday.

And yes, a backhand from Superman harming her to that extent absolutely DEFINES a low-showing. Given her other feats, it honestly amazes me how thoroughly you are arguing something so ridiculous. srsly

Originally posted by Delta1938
On the Brainiac example, you left-out how she did that after previously fighting him when he WAS amped(like a thousand times I think he said) and though losing, that would make her less than peak when she does beat him after it's severed.

Originally posted by Delta1938
And I'm not dismissing the scans for Brainwave and Booster Gold, but asking why should I be impressed. I dunno how powerful Brainwave is, and have no idea what the "quantum-energy enhancement" did, or if it even made her mental assault more impressive.

As for Booster: he'd been transformed into an energy being at that point. Mind-phucking energy impresses me.

Originally posted by Delta1938
But I've seen that example of her blasting Superman. He was hurt, but not taken down, let alone owned. But aside from the psi-bolts, I'm not really seeing anything to indicate her using her mental powers as effectively as you're arguing against Kara.

Take Orion, for instance. Aside from being a higher dimensional being, Mother Box is also supposed to guard his mind from tampering (Scott Free's Mother Box protected his mind from J'onn years ago)--yet Maxima, effortlessly tooled him with a telepathic blast. Insane.

Originally posted by Delta1938
She's largely using her telepathy against either other telepaths or those with more exotic abilities. And granted, I don't know if Kara's had dealing with telepathy, but I think part of Superman's resistance to telepathic attack and whatnot is how a Kryptonian mind works, so if the case, Kara would have at least a degree of resistance.

Additionally, it seems like you're heavily underestimating Max's psi-bolts. A single bolt harmed Superman, owned Captain Atom, and took out PG (to name a few.) But apparently Kara wouldn't be affected by them? C'mon, this is getting old. srsly

Originally posted by Delta1938
Can she teleport others?

Originally posted by Galan007
When I said "tanked" I meant it in the sense that said punches didn't significantly harm her, like they did everyone else.

um They didn't significantly harm her?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Captain%20Nazi%20exposure/Maxima/

She was one-shot the first time, knocked around in a tackle, and beat down enough that a mere gas station exploding was enough to not only KO her, but take her out of the fight completely(unless Maxima isn't as durable as I think she is). I think the best she did there is when she appears to be less hurt by Doomsday tackling both her and Superman than Superman was(since he went, "UGHNNN"😉.

As for compared to others? Aside from J'Onn and Superman, Doomsday might as well have been beating-up on normal humans, since Guy's Ring seemed to provide little to no protection, and, well, Blue is a normal human. And in all honesty, it looks like you're backtracking here 'cuz you were wrong.

Originally posted by Galan007
And yes, a backhand from Superman harming her to that extent absolutely DEFINES a low-showing. Given her other feats, it honestly amazes me how thoroughly you are arguing something so ridiculous. srsly

What are these other feats of durability? It's clear she didn't tank ANY of Doomsday's attacks, unless I missed something(which is possible).

Originally posted by Galan007
And?

And I was pointing-out the feat was more impressive than you presented it. That a problem?

Originally posted by Galan007
Brainwave is a massively powerful telepath--before Max owned him, they were waging war on the mental/astral plane. I'm not going to delve into any of his other feats, because frankly I think you'll just dismiss them as less than they are... Much like you are doing with Maxima's feats (whether you realize you're doing it or not.)

Well, how am I supposed to know if it's actually supposed to be impressive? I mean if it's a well known character that'd be one thing. That's why I try to include sub-albums on my account to show examples for why stuff is supposed to be impressive.

Originally posted by Galan007
As for Booster: he'd been transformed into an energy being at that point. Mind-phucking energy impresses me.

OK.

Originally posted by Galan007
The mind-phucking feats I posted are asininely impressive. Your inability to comprehend them is astounding.

Take Orion, for instance. Aside from being a higher dimensional being, Mother Box is also supposed to guard his mind from tampering (Scott Free's Mother Box protected his mind from J'onn years ago)--yet Maxima, effortlessly tooled him with a telepathic blast. Insane.

uh OK. Read what I said.

"But I've seen that example of her blasting Superman. He was hurt, but not taken down, let alone owned. But aside from the psi-bolts, I'm not really seeing anything to indicate her using her mental powers as effectively as you're arguing against Kara. She's largely using her telepathy against either other telepaths or those with more exotic abilities."

I pointed-out that Superman was NOT owned in one of the examples you gave, and pointed-out your scans didn't show me she's likely to really use her psionic powers, aside from the mind-bolt, like you're suggesting against a flying brick.

Honestly, you seem to be getting defensive and not actually seeing what I wrote.

Originally posted by Galan007
Despite having no feats suggestive of such, you think Kara gains Superman-level TP resistance... Just cuz? That's as ridiculous as saying that all Kryptonians are equal. Look, I have no doubt that Kara has SOME resistance to TP, but she isn't shrugging of Maxima-level TP unless she has FEATS that are indicative of such. I'd also like to remind you that Max had NO problem gaining entrance into Superman's mind in their first encounter--she refrained from mind-phuckery because she was just trying to make him love her at the time.

😕

And granted, I don't know if Kara's had dealing with telepathy, but I think part of Superman's resistance to telepathic attack and whatnot is how a Kryptonian mind works, so if the case, Kara would have at least a degree of resistance.

WHERE did I claim or even imply Kara has Superman-level resistance, just 'cuz?

Originally posted by Galan007
Additionally, it seems like you're heavily underestimating Max's psi-bolts. A single bolt harmed Superman, owned Captain Atom, and took out PG (to name a few.) But apparently Kara wouldn't be affected by them? C'mon, this is getting old. srsly

Maybe I am underestimating her psi-bolts. But you're misreading what I've said and either missed, or are ignoring the point, that I said the examples you gave showed her largely using her mental powers as effectively as you seem to be arguing against other telepaths or those with more exotic powers. Which has been consistent with what I have read of her in how I figure she'd fight Kara. And you're getting snappy over things I never argued.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes.

So what's the range for it to be an effective BFR?

Originally posted by Delta1938
um They didn't significantly harm her?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Captain%20Nazi%20exposure/Maxima/

She was one-shot the first time, knocked around in a tackle, and beat down enough that a mere gas station exploding was enough to not only KO her, but take her out of the fight completely(unless Maxima isn't as durable as I think she is). I think the best she did there is when she appears to be less hurt by Doomsday tackling both her and Superman than Superman was(since he went, "UGHNNN"😉.

Originally posted by Delta1938
And in all honesty, it looks like you're backtracking here 'cuz you were wrong.

Originally posted by Delta1938
What are these other feats of durability? It's clear she didn't tank ANY of Doomsday's attacks, unless I missed something(which is possible).

Originally posted by Delta1938
Well, how am I supposed to know if it's actually supposed to be impressive? I mean if it's a well known character that'd be one thing. That's why I try to include sub-albums on my account to show examples for why stuff is supposed to be impressive.

Originally posted by Delta1938
uh OK. Read what I said.

"But I've seen that example of her blasting Superman. He was hurt, but not taken down, let alone owned. But aside from the psi-bolts, I'm not really seeing anything to indicate her using her mental powers as effectively as you're arguing against Kara. She's largely using her telepathy against either other telepaths or those with more exotic abilities."

I pointed-out that Superman was NOT owned in one of the examples you gave, and pointed-out your scans didn't show me she's likely to really use her psionic powers, aside from the mind-bolt, like you're suggesting against a flying brick.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Honestly, you seem to be getting defensive and not actually seeing what I wrote.

And granted, I don't know if Kara's had dealing with telepathy, but I think part of Superman's resistance to telepathic attack and whatnot is how a Kryptonian mind works, [B]so if the case, Kara would have at least a degree of resistance.

WHERE did I claim or even imply Kara has Superman-level resistance, just 'cuz?[/B]

I actually agree that she would have some type of resistance. Not enough though--I think you're ignoring some of the examples I gave pertaining to characters WITH hardcore resistance to TP getting owned by Max.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Maybe I am underestimating her psi-bolts. But you're misreading what I've said and either missed, or are ignoring the point, that I said the examples you gave showed her largely using her mental powers as effectively as you seem to be arguing against other telepaths or those with more exotic powers.

Again: Max has used her psi abilities throughout the greater majority of her appearances. It is ABSOLUTELY in character for her to do so... Especially in a vs. battle.

Originally posted by Delta1938
So what's the range for it to be an effective BFR?

She's also teleported others more subtly (shorter ranges), but they wouldn't count as true BFR.

Originally posted by Galan007
Maxima was not significantly harmed by anything DD through at her--those scans depict as much.

REALLY?

She was one-shot there. And even ignoring that, you went from she tanked Doomsday's punches, to she did better than others in the fight, to now saying she wasn't significantly harmed.

Originally posted by Galan007
The explosion harmed her--but it also harmed Superman, so take that for what it's worth.

Actually, I was saying she was hurt enough that a gas station exploding was enough to not only KO her, but take her out of the fight completely. When she was revived, she was still out of it and required medical attention. Superman had been fighting Doomsday a while, during which Maxima was away when she left to take Beetle to a hospital. Unless Maxima's durability is lower than I thought? I figured she could AT LEAST take a good-sized bomb and be ok.

Originally posted by Galan007
I wasn't wrong at all. DD's blows didn't significantly harm Max--which is exactly what I said. An explosion SHE inadvertently created is what harmed her (and Superman as well.)

See above. And this is a change from she tanked his blows.

Originally posted by Galan007
She endured Doomsday's melee. She endured punches from Superman. She endured punches from Power Girl. She withstood a blast to the face from Polaris (and this was the same arc in which Polaris gained enough power to one-shot a Controller.) She endured an assault from Starbreaker. She endured an assault from Monarch. She endured an assault from Brainiac 5 amped by Warworld. Etc.

Her taking attacks from Doomsday was nothing like your original claim. We know Superman just about always holds back. Not sure what Power Girl would be at, I know her level was all over the place around that time. The Polaris, Monarch and Starbreaker examples are good, but Brainiac 5 amped by Warworld? You mean Brainiac? And I don't recall her taking physical attacks from him then, so while it might be impressive, has nothing to do with physical durability.

Originally posted by Galan007
Typically it's good to know a bit about the characters you're debating against. Saves time.

While that might be true, it's too much to ask for why a feat she did was impressive? And it's not like we're debating Brainwave. You used that feat as an example, I asked why it's impressive, you just said it is.

Originally posted by Galan007
Maxima has used her psi abilities throughout the greater majority of her appearances. It is ABSOLUTELY in character for her to do so... Especially in a vs. battle. I honestly don't understand what isn't computing..?

I don't think you're understanding me. Based on my experience reading her, she doesn't use her psionic powers against characters like Kara for much more than her psi-blasts. And based on the scans you've presented, it's just reinforcing my belief. I could be misunderstanding you, but you're making me think you're arguing she'll get versatile with her telekinesis and telepathy, when you've mostly shown her only doing that for special situations(the Almaric crisis), fighting other telepaths(Brainiac, Brainwave), or against those with more exotic powersets than Kara(Polaris). Between both what you've shown and what I've read, most of the time if she fights a brick, she gets about as versatile as a mental blast and punches. As far as I can tell, that's in-character.

But if we're to argue about them fighting to the best of their ability, Supergirl can always speedblitz. I know Maxima has some degree of super speed, but it didn't seem to be all that high compared to what Kara has.

Originally posted by Galan007
This was my bad. I misread what you said--I thought you said Kara would have "at least THAT" degree of resistance. Apologies.

Apologies accepted. You actually had made me think I mistyped what I meant to say, until I double checked.

Originally posted by Galan007
I actually agree that she would have some type of resistance. Not enough though--I think you're ignoring some of the examples I gave pertaining to characters WITH hardcore resistance to TP getting owned by Max.

See Above.

Again: Max has used her psi abilities throughout the greater majority of her appearances. It is ABSOLUTELY in character for her to do so... Especially in a vs. battle.

Maybe a psi-bolt can take her down, I dunno. I simply don't see Maxima getting a majority. Especially if we argue effective use of psionic powers VS effective use of super speed.

Originally posted by Galan007
If the character whose BFR'd can get back to the battlefield in a reasonable amount of time, it doesn't count as a BFR. However, Max has teleported her servants (on more than one occasion) from earth to a prison near Almerac, and vice versa--and iirc, Adam Strange stated during OWAW that the distance from Almerac to earth is roughly 100 trillion light years (not joking.) So yeah, I doubt Kara would be able to get back in a reasonable amount of time if Max BFR'd her.

She's also teleported others more subtly (shorter ranges), but they wouldn't count as true BFR.

Oh, I understand what it means to get a BFR victory. I was asking what's MAXIMA'S teleportation range, for you to think she can win by BFR. And damn, that's pretty impressive. I think it's the most impressive teleportation feat I've heard of.

Originally posted by Delta1938
See above. And this is a change from she tanked his blows.

Sorry if there was some miscommunication. I should've clarified that initially.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Her taking attacks from Doomsday was nothing like your original claim. We know Superman just about always holds back. Not sure what Power Girl would be at, I know her level was all over the place around that time. The Polaris, Monarch and Starbreaker examples are good, but Brainiac 5 amped by Warworld? You mean Brainiac? And I don't recall her taking physical attacks from him then, so while it might be impressive, has nothing to do with physical durability.

I've noticed that you tend to IGNORE quite a bit of Maxima's feats (referring to her mind-phucking characters WITH uber TP resistance, for instance), and also tend to majorly low-ball anything else you can't comprehend or don't agree with. Meh, w/e.

Originally posted by Delta1938
While that might be true, it's too much to ask for why a feat she did was impressive? And it's not like we're debating Brainwave. You used that feat as an example, I asked why it's impressive, you just said it is.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I don't think you're understanding me. Based on my experience reading her, she doesn't use her psionic powers against characters like Kara for much more than her psi-blasts. And based on the scans you've presented, it's just reinforcing my belief. I could be misunderstanding you, but you're making me think you're arguing she'll get versatile with her telekinesis and telepathy, when you've mostly shown her only doing that for special situations(the Almaric crisis), fighting other telepaths(Brainiac, Brainwave), or against those with more exotic powersets than Kara(Polaris). Between both what you've shown and what I've read, most of the time if she fights a brick, she gets about as versatile as a mental blast and punches. As far as I can tell, that's in-character.

Either way, I've seen NOTHING from Kara that leads me to believe she could cope with Maxima-level TP... Or psi-bolts... Or force-fields... Or even TK. /shrug

Originally posted by Delta1938
But if we're to argue about them fighting to the best of their ability, Supergirl can always speedblitz. I know Maxima has some degree of super speed, but it didn't seem to be all that high compared to what Kara has.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Apologies accepted. You actually had made me think I mistyped what I meant to say, until I double checked.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Maybe a psi-bolt can take her down, I dunno. I simply don't see Maxima getting a majority. Especially if we argue effective use of psionic powers VS effective use of super speed.

If one bolt can own Captain Atom...

Originally posted by Delta1938
Oh, I understand what it means to get a BFR victory. I was asking what's MAXIMA'S teleportation range, for you to think she can win by BFR. And damn, that's pretty impressive. I think it's the most impressive teleportation feat I've heard of.

Anyway, I've gotta go settle down for the evening. Talk later. 🙂