Annihilus vs Thor

Originally posted by dmills
I was actually having this conversation with my son. He only knows Thor Vis-a-vis the Avengers movie, various cartoons (i.e. Hulk vs, EMH) so as you would expect, his view of Thor isn't too high. For him the notion that Thor is as powerful if not more so then say, the Hulk doesn't compute at all. When I told him that in the actual source material Thor has feats that trump most anything that the Hulk has ever done, his reaction was incredulous lol.

Yeah.

Most of my younger cousins and what not have had the same thoughts until I explained the situation. Similar reactions.

lol I remember when my nephew told me Hulk was far more powerful than Thor. I just troll-faced him and showed him a bunch of scans on the computer and said "Problem?".

He then asked me "How come Thor does all this awesome stuff and then when he fights Hulk all of a sudden gets powered down?"

Didn't have an answer for him ha ha

But yeah, Thor not being respected among the children, IS a problem in the long term.

I hope whoever in Marvel hates Thor so much retires, or just gets brutally haped or whatever, whichever is more convenient. 🙂

Lol at kids assuming Hulk is clearly more powerful. We're going to be in the vast minority in about 5 years when all those kids are trolling internet forums.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Continue preaching the truth to your son, dmills.

The Realm Eternal smiles upon thee.

😂

Originally posted by Nihilist
Hard to tell with me? you act as if im some times quick tempered and serious!!

IIRC didnt Annihilus do well against Thor previously?

No idea. I really don't know a whole lot about Annihilus. He was mostly a Fantastic Four entity until the cosmic War, and I've never followed FF. I know a general power level and that's about it.

I don't remember a specific fight, but that doesn't mean it never happened. Based on general portrayals, it's probably reasonable to say Ann. wins, but not easily.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
But yeah, Thor not being respected among the children, IS a problem in the long term.

I hope whoever in Marvel hates Thor so much retires, or just gets brutally haped or whatever, whichever is more convenient. 🙂

Honestly, I have no idea who that would be. Brevoort is apparently a Thor/Asgardian fan boy. Bendis, in spite of the Avengers Assemble crap out now, always wrote a high end Thor power wise. Fraction rapes the mythos and character regularly, but still has him powerful as he's ever been.

If anything, it seems like the movie, cartoon show, and various animated films seemed to change things around. Which is ironic that in the actual comics, Thor vs. Hulk consistently has been "could go either way" affair when Thor clearly fights on Hulk's level, but outside of that they want to paint another story.

EDIT: Last time I checked, Loeb and Quesada were in charge of all the stuff Marvel does outside of the actual comics. <__<

Originally posted by Digi
That limited run with Ego and the Collector was cool. Great, great art, and it treated Thor with sort of a detached dignity that hasn't been around for a while. Of recent arcs, that gets my vote.

That Astonish storyline took me back to a sense of wonderment and scale in comics that I have not experienced in quite some time. I loved it.

Marvel would keep my wallet empty if they put out more material in that vein.

Originally posted by dmills
That Astonish storyline took me back to a sense of wonderment and scale in comics that I have not experienced in quite some time. I loved it.

Marvel would keep my wallet empty if they put out more material in that vein.

👆

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I really liked Astonishing Thor, too. People hardly depict Thor in that noble light as he should be nowadays. In large part due to the movies, which showed us an arrogant and boisterous Thor, I'd imagine.

Writers seem to forget, or not care, that Thor underwent something called character development years ago.

That's what kills me when Brevoort has the nerve to wax poetic about the sad state of comic related interviews and/or reviews. It's like, are you seriou Tom? You don't see a correlation between what you see as a decline in the quality of the people who write about the goings on in the comic industry vs the relative quality, (or rather lack there of) in the material that they review?

Originally posted by Digi
I've discovered recently that there's two storytelling reasons for the heavy hitters jobbing in team books. The most-cited one is that they'd end the fights and threats too quickly, so the writer has to get them out of the plot somehow. This is valid.

But the other reason is that it helps sell the bad guy. "Holy crap, he just one-shotted {insert most powerful character}! This must be serious. To win, we're going to need teamwork." Equally as stupid, but I saw like 3 occurrences of this in rapid succession recently, and only then did it dawn on me.

So yeah, two different Thors. Avengers Thor, despite being called the heavy hitter, is occasionally no better in a fight than Iron Man.

But there are other powerful members on the team as well that isn't experiencing anything close to what Thor is experiencing. I think it would be high end as well if someone was to one shot WWH, hell, it would actually look better but Thats not what is happening. I think falling back on this type of argument is just making excuse imo (no hard feelings Digi).

By the way, Hulk is far more powerful than Thor. I don't get it...people don't have an issue with Doomsday running through Heralds but when Hulk does it, its a low showing for the character. The hate flows in you all incredibly well. Some people on here, I don't even take seriously when its involving Hulk (Cosmic and Pillar is a good example of this).

Originally posted by carver9
But there are other powerful members on the team as well that isn't experiencing anything close to what Thor is experiencing. I think it would be high end as well if someone was to one shot WWH, hell, it would actually look better but Thats not what is happening. I think falling back on this type of argument is just making excuse imo (no hard feelings Digi).

Well, then you need to have a competing theory on why he's written ridiculously more powerful in his own book, consistently. Because that's basically what I'm getting at. If he can one-shot Demiurge and incapacitate Ego, then gets chumped while Iron Man does well, something's up. We take the good with the bad, sure, but it's outright schizophrenia with Thor right now. I'd argue he's had some of his best HH+ feats ever recently. His fanbase just doesn't go nuts every time he does something at this level, because he's been doing them for decades.

WWH was a single story arc intended to highlight the character. He's never going to have bad feats to bring him down, because wasn't continuous as Thor is. You're comparing apples and oranges relative to my point. It's barely relevant, if at all.

Originally posted by carver9
By the way, Hulk is far more powerful than Thor. I don't get it...people don't have an issue with Doomsday running through Heralds but when Hulk does it, its a low showing for the character. The hate flows in you all incredibly well. Some people on here, I don't even take seriously when its involving Hulk (Cosmic and Pillar is a good example of this).

I'm not going to rage on you like some. But there was a time not too long ago when no one would even bother thinking this. Hulk has been on a consistent uptrend for about 10 years now, but before that his best stuff paled in comparison to Thor. Back in the 70's and 80's it wasn't even close. This isn't fanboy talk, it's just obvious sh*t. I'm fine with admitting that when they meet now, Hulk could conceivably come out on top.

I do realize this is the general direction Marvel is going with the two characters. So meh, whatever. However, even the recent worldbreaker wank is only now just pulling Hulk to Thor's best feats. Saying he's "far" more powerful than Thor, though, needs amendment. You need to temper yourself a bit and realize that the reason everyone seems to be against you isn't because you're the only one that's figured it out, but that there might be a valid competing theory.

And the forum's thing with Hulk has never been about total power, but versatility. When Thor could realistically stay out of range and still deal considerable damage to Hulk, it's hard to say Hulk is unequivocally better. No one doubts that his raw power is comparable or better.

Just think on it. We don't need to get into this. Don't turn this into a Hulk v. Thor thread. We were talking about a gradual change in the perception, sharing stories, and talking about story arcs. Frankly, another rage-filled debate with those two is far less interesting. I'd leave, and I was enjoying myself in this thread.

Originally posted by carver9
By the way, Hulk is far more powerful than Thor. I don't get it...people don't have an issue with Doomsday running through Heralds but when Hulk does it, its a low showing for the character. The hate flows in you all incredibly well. Some people on here, I don't even take seriously when its involving Hulk (Cosmic and Pillar is a good example of this).

Completely different powersets carv

Hulk is more powerful than Thor

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Completely different powersets carv

How is it completely different powersets? Because Doomsday can adapt? So can Hulk.

What else makes them different? If anything, Hulk is far more powerful than Doomsday. His strength, durability, etc. Like I've said, other bricks get love. People brag about Despero physically handling the league, people brag about The General handling the league, didn't have a problem with Konvict doing it but when Hulk runs through Heralds, its a Sin (lol). The Hulk hate is famous but I'm here to correct it.

Originally posted by Digi
Well, then you need to have a competing theory on why he's written ridiculously more powerful in his own book, consistently. Because that's basically what I'm getting at. If he can one-shot Demiurge and incapacitate Ego, then gets chumped while Iron Man does well, something's up. We take the good with the bad, sure, but it's outright schizophrenia with Thor right now. I'd argue he's had some of his best HH+ feats ever recently. His fanbase just doesn't go nuts every time he does something at this level, because he's been doing them for decades.

WWH was a single story arc intended to highlight the character. He's never going to have bad feats to bring him down, because wasn't continuous as Thor is. You're comparing apples and oranges relative to my point. It's barely relevant, if at all.

I'm not going to rage on you like some. But there was a time not too long ago when no one would even bother thinking this. Hulk has been on a consistent uptrend for about 10 years now, but before that his best stuff paled in comparison to Thor. Back in the 70's and 80's it wasn't even close. This isn't fanboy talk, it's just obvious sh*t. I'm fine with admitting that when they meet now, Hulk could conceivably come out on top.

I do realize this is the general direction Marvel is going with the two characters. So meh, whatever. However, even the recent worldbreaker wank is only now just pulling Hulk to Thor's best feats. Saying he's "far" more powerful than Thor, though, needs amendment. You need to temper yourself a bit and realize that the reason everyone seems to be against you isn't because you're the only one that's figured it out, but that there might be a valid competing theory.

And the forum's thing with Hulk has never been about total power, but versatility. When Thor could realistically stay out of range and still deal considerable damage to Hulk, it's hard to say Hulk is unequivocally better. No one doubts that his raw power is comparable or better.

Just think on it. We don't need to get into this. Don't turn this into a Hulk v. Thor thread. We were talking about a gradual change in the perception, sharing stories, and talking about story arcs. Frankly, another rage-filled debate with those two is far less interesting. I'd leave, and I was enjoying myself in this thread.

I agree with most of this but it contradicts what happens on panel. By the ways Thor has used Lightning against Hulk, weaker versions of Hulk which only resulted in getting Hulk even more angrier. In previous Times, yes, Thor was more powerful but the power level of each character has changed drastically. Thor versatility might be better but Hulks overall power is better physically which gives him the opportunity to power through Thors attack and take him out. The power difference has gotten so bad that Hulk has the power to one shot Thor or take out beings without touching them that would give Thor a run for his money. This doesn't include the fact that Gravage Hulk (a weaker version of Hulk) took it to the Avengers, a team that consisted of Thor and Ironman along with other members.

I agree with some of your points but it contradicts what is shown on panel.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with most of this but it contradicts what happens on panel. By the ways Thor has used Lightning against Hulk, weaker versions of Hulk which only resulted in getting Hulk even more angrier. In previous Times, yes, Thor was more powerful but the power level of each character has changed drastically. Thor versatility might be better but Hulks overall power is better physically which gives him the opportunity to power through Thors attack and take him out. The power difference has gotten so bad that Hulk has the power to one shot Thor or take out beings without touching them that would give Thor a run for his money. This doesn't include the fact that Gravage Hulk (a weaker version of Hulk) took it to the Avengers, a team that consisted of Thor and Ironman along with other members.

I agree with some of your points but it contradicts what is shown on panel.

I'd probably say something like "you're selectively choosing feats" but I'm bored already with this. Have fun with the others.

Originally posted by carver9
But there are other powerful members on the team as well that isn't experiencing anything close to what Thor is experiencing. I think it would be high end as well if someone was to one shot WWH, hell, it would actually look better but Thats not what is happening. I think falling back on this type of argument is just making excuse imo (no hard feelings Digi).

Originally posted by carver9
By the way, Hulk is far more powerful than Thor. I don't get it...people don't have an issue with Doomsday running through Heralds but when Hulk does it, its a low showing for the character. The hate flows in you all incredibly well. Some people on here, I don't even take seriously when its involving Hulk (Cosmic and Pillar is a good example of this).

Anyways.

So who would be the best person to handle the main title once Fraction steps away? I've heard some say Hickman. My thing with Hickman is that his pace is very deliberate. He's big on plot development with action sequencing interspersed in small doses throughout the overall storyline. Would Thor fans be interested in a cleverly written but perhaps less action oriented Thor?

I ask this because I seem to recall some Thor fans complaining about the pacing of Astonish, which is very similar to the style of Hickman.

lmao. perfect gif is perfect.

People don't understand that, to take the side of Thor over Hulk, when comparing power, is not a "hate" thing.

Hulk was never meant to do the things he does lately. Many of his greatest and latest feats are outside of his power profile. They don't even match up with his abilities or origins.

It could be compared to having Captain America suddenly gain the powers of flight and heat vision, while the only explanation for it is that the Super-Soldier serum provides limitless power.

Well? Why didn't he have limitless power all the decades before this?
Who knows? It doesn't matter. Let's just sell some books!

In recent years, fans seem to be leaning toward a love of the "uber-powerful". The crazier the feats, the happier the fans.

"Cosmic-Level" characters are everywhere. IMHO, the new developments with Hulk are simply a ploy to keep Hulk running with the big boys. Unfortunately, it doesn't always jibe with the universe that marvel has created.

Thor is thrown into a bin that is labeled as "Heralds". Before this level was given a name, my friends and I called them "Cosmics", or "Cosmic Class" beings. These guys were the ones that could basically do anything. Travel anywhere, at any time and speed was no concern. Usually, their strength, power-levels and abilities allowed them to do ANYTHING they needed to do. Literally.

Hulk is not one of them.

The beauty of the Hulk character, was that when he ran into these Cosmics, he actually presented a threat, without the writers having to change or amp his abilities to ridiculous levels.

He was the epitome of "The Brick". And, when he fought some incredibly powerful being, he didn't shrug off, or heal from every attack. And, he didn't constantly do things that even go against comic book physics.

To a lot of us, who have been reading Hulk comics for decades, this isn't even the true Hulk. This is some new comic book character that is almost never really in danger. He floats around, bullying the entire Marvel universe and upsetting the continuity of many other characters.

So, be patient with us.

The Hulk we grew up with, was simple. But, in that simplicity, was the draw to the character. You actually worried about him. He wasn't ALWAYS the strongest, or the smartest. He wasn't impervious to EVERYTHING. He was constantly tricked.
He had more heart than Ben Grimm.
He was an underdog.

But, some times, when it counted, he was able to pull off some big wins against the biggest guns around.

But, I would imagine that a lot of us that argue against Hulk, are big fans of him.

Originally posted by Horrificus
People don't understand that, to take the side of Thor over Hulk, when comparing power, is not a "hate" thing.

Hulk was never meant to do the things he does lately. Many of his greatest and latest feats are outside of his power profile. They don't even match up with his abilities or origins.

It could be compared to having Captain America suddenly gain the powers of flight and heat vision, while the only explanation for it is that the Super-Soldier serum provides limitless power.

Well? Why didn't he have limitless power all the decades before this?
Who knows? It doesn't matter. Let's just sell some books!

In recent years, fans seem to be leaning toward a love of the "uber-powerful". The crazier the feats, the happier the fans.

"Cosmic-Level" characters are everywhere. IMHO, the new developments with Hulk are simply a ploy to keep Hulk running with the big boys. Unfortunately, it doesn't always jibe with the universe that marvel has created.

Thor is thrown into a bin that is labeled as "Heralds". Before this level was given a name, my friends and I called them "Cosmics", or "Cosmic Class" beings. These guys were the ones that could basically do anything. Travel anywhere, at any time and speed was no concern. Usually, their strength, power-levels and abilities allowed them to do ANYTHING they needed to do. Literally.

Hulk is not one of them.

The beauty of the Hulk character, was that when he ran into these Cosmics, he actually presented a threat, without the writers having to change or amp his abilities to ridiculous levels.

He was the epitome of "The Brick". And, when he fought some incredibly powerful being, he didn't shrug off, or heal from every attack. And, he didn't constantly do things that even go against comic book physics.

To a lot of us, who have been reading Hulk comics for decades, this isn't even the true Hulk. This is some new comic book character that is almost never really in danger. He floats around, bullying the entire Marvel universe and upsetting the continuity of many other characters.

So, be patient with us.

The Hulk we grew up with, was simple. But, in that simplicity, was the draw to the character. You actually worried about him. He wasn't ALWAYS the strongest, or the smartest. He wasn't impervious to EVERYTHING. He was constantly tricked.
He had more heart than Ben Grimm.
He was an underdog.

But, some times, when it counted, he was able to pull off some big wins against the biggest guns around.

But, I would imagine that a lot of us that argue against Hulk, are big fans of him.

Huh? Why not accept Hulk jumping up a couple of tiers than what he use to be. Writers see him in a different view, they are living up to his namesake...he is the strongest there is.

Just accept it and move on.