Annihilus vs Thor

Originally posted by Digi

No idea. I really don't know a whole lot about Annihilus. He was mostly a Fantastic Four entity until the cosmic War, and I've never followed FF. I know a general power level and that's about it.

I remember Ben used to kick his butt all the time, and tank his cosmic control rod.

Than Annihilation happened, and he made mincemeat of Quasar, and was beating Richard Rider. This power level seemed to stick in Fantastic Four, when he tanked Johnny Storms nova, twice.

But, when he lost his weapon, he seemed pretty weak, so either the cosmic control rod amps his physical stats, or the FF writer was being lazy about getting Annihilus out of the way for the main story.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Writers seem to forget, or not care, that Thor underwent something called character development years ago.

Outside of Fraction, does Jurgens write the worst Thor?

His Thor has all the personality of cardboard. Just a generic strong man that boasts a lot.

Originally posted by cdtm
I remember Ben used to kick his butt all the time, and tank his cosmic control rod.

Than Annihilation happened, and he made mincemeat of Quasar, and was beating Richard Rider. This power level seemed to stick in Fantastic Four, when he tanked Johnny Storms nova, twice.

But, when he lost his weapon, he seemed pretty weak, so either the cosmic control rod amps his physical stats, or the FF writer was being lazy about getting Annihilus out of the way for the main story.

But, I remember him getting beat pretty easily and quite often.

Originally posted by Horrificus
See? This is the stuff I remember too.
I posted a while back, during Annihilation and brought up the way Annihilus used to get beat lest and right. All I got was a ration of sh*t from other members.

But, I remember him getting beat pretty easily and quite often.

Oh yeah, there's a big difference between pre and post Annihilation War Annihilus. It's very similar to how Sinestro is written after Sinestro Corp War.

Ben didn't one shot KO him or anything, but he was able give him a good fight and even dominate him.

Originally posted by cdtm
Outside of Fraction, does Jurgens write the worst Thor?

His Thor has all the personality of cardboard. Just a generic strong man that boasts a lot.

Whaaaaaaat? 😕

Jurgens had a great run on Thor, especially toward the end with the Reigning. He tackled every aspect of Thor that was important: his nobility, his humility and lack thereof, being worthy, and his humanity.

I'd rate him quite high on my Thor writer's list, actually.

Originally posted by dmills

Anyways.

So who would be the best person to handle the main title once Fraction steps away? I've heard some say Hickman. My thing with Hickman is that his pace is very deliberate. He's big on plot development with action sequencing interspersed in small doses throughout the overall storyline. Would Thor fans be interested in a cleverly written but perhaps less action oriented Thor?

I ask this because I seem to recall some Thor fans complaining about the pacing of Astonish, which is very similar to the style of Hickman.

I think Hickman would be best on the Avengers, but he could definitely tackle Thor and do it right. JiM is heavy on plot development which makes sense as it's Loki's book, whereas Mighty Thor should be more action orientated.

Originally posted by carver9
Huh? Why not accept Hulk jumping up a couple of tiers than what he use to be. Writers see him in a different view, they are living up to his namesake...he is the strongest there is.

Just accept it and move on.

😐

Because a lot of us read comics for more than just feats and battleboard style writing, which is what Marvel caters to nowadays. And let's be honest, Carver; you like Hulk because of his feats and how he's being stroked nowadays. Nothing wrong with it, but be honest about it and own up to it.

I like Thor (obviously), and as a fan, I can admit I'd like Thor to look awesome featwise. But feats < story and character development. Fraction's Thor is a beast, as evidenced in Fear Itself and his ongoing. He's also a raging maniac half the time who's way too willing to kill people who piss him off. As a fan, that shit annoys me to no end and no amount of feat stroking will change my mind. I don't even follow Thor's book often outside of skimming due to my gross disappointment with the title.

A lot of Hulk fans have expressed their own disappointment in how Hulk's character (not his power level) has been treated coming off the heels of HoTM and Pak's wank train. Coupled with Bendis' nonsense, it just becomes less about Hulk's character and struggle which makes him legitimately interesting and mindless smashing to cater to fans who eat that shit up and don't demand more.

You yourself even admitted Avengers Assemble was garbage.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
😐

Because a lot of us read comics for more than just feats and battleboard style writing, which is what Marvel caters to nowadays. And let's be honest, Carver; you like Hulk because of his feats and how he's being stroked nowadays. Nothing wrong with it, but be honest about it and own up to it.

I like Thor (obviously), and as a fan, I can admit I'd like Thor to look awesome featwise. But feats < story and character development. Fraction's Thor is a beast, as evidenced in Fear Itself and his ongoing. He's also a raging maniac half the time who's way too willing to kill people who piss him off. As a fan, that shit annoys me to no end and no amount of feat stroking will change my mind. I don't even follow Thor's book often outside of skimming due to my gross disappointment with the title.

A lot of Hulk fans have expressed their own disappointment in how Hulk's character (not his power level) has been treated coming off the heels of HoTM and Pak's wank train. Coupled with Bendis' nonsense, it just becomes less about Hulk's character and struggle which makes him legitimately interesting and mindless smashing to cater to fans who eat that shit up and don't demand more.

You yourself even admitted Avengers Assemble was garbage.

It is garbage, that's why I didn't download the issue but that doesnt change the fact that recent writers portray Hulk at different levels than what he use to be. The story was trash and I'm not doubting that, my only issue is when people show bias towards Hulk but doesn't do the same towards people that are similar in some ways to Hulk.

If you are going to be bias against one of the most powerful bricks in comics, do the same to others. Cry when Doomsday run through an entire GL corpse or when Superman, Darkseid along with numerous of other beings don't use their versatility against him. Same with Despero...he took out a gang of high Heralds, some who could have easily bfred him. Why not pout about it? Why not give the Hulk treatment? Doesn't make sense. I agree with you about the stories but this isn't a one sided thing. Don't be bias about it...say the same thing that you would say about Hulk about similar characters as well. That's all I'm asking.

Originally posted by carver9
It is garbage, that's why I didn't download the issue but that doesnt change the fact that recent writers portray Hulk at different levels than what he use to be. The story was trash and I'm not doubting that, my only issue is when people show bias towards Hulk but doesn't do the same towards people that are similar in some ways to Hulk.

If you are going to be bias against one of the most powerful bricks in comics, do the same to others. Cry when Doomsday run through an entire GL corpse or when Superman, Darkseid aoong with numerous of other beings don't use their versatility against him. Same with Despero...he took out the a gang of high Heralds, some who could have easily bfred him. Why not pout about it? Why not give the Hulk treatment? Doesn't make sense. I agree with you about the stories but this isn't a one sided thing. Don't be bias about it...say the same thing that you would say about Hulk about similar characters as well. That's all I'm asking.

...okay?

Most of those stories are actually well written, though. I have no problems with crazy power levels or feats. I do when it's at the expense of characterization or another character's expense. And that's especially true when it's characters I actually like.

Someone asked me would I be happy if Thor suddenly got the Odin Force again and was at King Thor or Rune King Thor levels. My answer was a resounding no. It wouldn't make any goddamn sense and be complete character regression to say other things.

See this is where I see it a bit differently. I didn't mind at all the hotm stuff because it was exploring the depths of the Hulks rage. Basically if the monster was truly unleashed, what would he be capable of? Maybe Pak failed in terms of execution, but I don't front him for exploring it.

And lest we forgot, Pak via Planet Hulk was responsible for some of the best character progression that the character had seen since perhaps Peter David. Perhaps he lost his mojo in wwh, but PH stands tall right behind Annihilation but just ahead of Civil War as the best shit that Marvel has put out in a decade imo. Maybe behind Brubaker's Immortal Iron Fist if you want to count that as well.

^^ I agree with you on PH, it was one of the most well-written Hulk stories ever. It just seemed to me that one he wrapped it up and did WWH he completely shitted on the already established characterization and executed the entire thing poorly...

I have no problem with Hulk doing off the wall stuff, thats his nature, its just that recently he's gone way off base from the root of the character...especially the Banner aspect and the whole mad scientist crap. I miss the days when Hulk actually had a chance of losing..when he had to dig deep in himself and win. Not flip some auto-rage switch and power-up.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
😐

Because a lot of us read comics for more than just feats and battleboard style writing, which is what Marvel caters to nowadays. And let's be honest, Carver; you like Hulk because of his feats and how he's being stroked nowadays. Nothing wrong with it, but be honest about it and own up to it.

I like Thor (obviously), and as a fan, I can admit I'd like Thor to look awesome featwise. But feats < story and character development. Fraction's Thor is a beast, as evidenced in Fear Itself and his ongoing. He's also a raging maniac half the time who's way too willing to kill people who piss him off. As a fan, that shit annoys me to no end and no amount of feat stroking will change my mind. I don't even follow Thor's book often outside of skimming due to my gross disappointment with the title.

A lot of Hulk fans have expressed their own disappointment in how Hulk's character (not his power level) has been treated coming off the heels of HoTM and Pak's wank train. Coupled with Bendis' nonsense, it just becomes less about Hulk's character and struggle which makes him legitimately interesting and mindless smashing to cater to fans who eat that shit up and don't demand more.

You yourself even admitted Avengers Assemble was garbage.

I like Thor after his return. Everything about it was done so well and it was often very slow on the action, but when there was action I seriously enjoyed it. Like when he confronted Iron Man it was perfect imo.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think Hickman would be best on the Avengers, but he could definitely tackle Thor and do it right. JiM is heavy on plot development which makes sense as it's Loki's book, whereas Mighty Thor should be more action orientated.

Hickman is a very solid writer at least in the high end adventure genre he's been scripting in the last couple of years. If he pulls off Avengers as he did the FF he would put most of Bendis's run into shame.

Didn't Thor and Annihilus fought already anyways? I recall seeing some scans as of when Annihilus took control of the Odin Force with his Control Rod or something.

Originally posted by dmills

Anyways.

So who would be the best person to handle the main title once Fraction steps away? I've heard some say Hickman. My thing with Hickman is that his pace is very deliberate. He's big on plot development with action sequencing interspersed in small doses throughout the overall storyline. Would Thor fans be interested in a cleverly written but perhaps less action oriented Thor?

I ask this because I seem to recall some Thor fans complaining about the pacing of Astonish, which is very similar to the style of Hickman.

I think Thor is a character that thrives of complexity and not simplicity. I think you get that with a more deliberate pace.

Of course that's me and I'm a lot older now. Young me would have wanted to see explosions and massive uber feats of destruction everywhere.

I think that's why you see a massive push for a character like the Hulk to be uber, even though when you compare totality of work Hulk isn't anymore impressive then a Thor or Silver Surfer, kids like him and they want their heroes to be the strongest and most powerfullest person walking around.

As I am reading all of your posts, there is an image that keeps popping into my head. The "Power Up" that Hulk seems to be able to jump into.

It's like he has been turned into a DBZ character!

And, it is good to know that I'm not alone in missing the Hulk that you rooted for. The one that didn't have "perfect strategy" in every confrontation. The one that could lose.

Originally posted by Horrificus
As I am reading all of your posts, there is an image that keeps popping into my head. The "Power Up" that Hulk seems to be able to jump into.

It's like he has been turned into a DBZ character!

And, it is good to know that I'm not alone in missing the Hulk that you rooted for. The one that didn't have "perfect strategy" in every confrontation. The one that could lose.

Hahaha, I was just going to reply to sin that it was a little DBZish. Maybe that's why caver enjoyed it so much lol.

Psycho Gundam covered this.
YouTube video

This is Hulk now. 😄

I saw this quote on another site and I thought of Carver lol.

e Re: Hulk Smash Avengers 4 -Hulk finally smashes some Avengers « Reply #20 on: May 28, 2012, 09:49:40 am » Well, I guess this proves Pineapple Thing was stronger than Wonder Man after all. It also proves that Wonder Man's lucky to be 1/ 100th as strong as the Banner Hulk, given how much he looked to be struggling with that little pyramid. The gap between any incarnation of the Hulk and any other hero in the Marvel universe is expanding at a rate of knots.

Nothing but the truth. Current Hulk is the most powerful being that is walking the planet right now.

Actually, there's probably something to this. The inherent dislike of Hulk by many stems from the fact that he's been turned into a stupid character in most of his portrayals. The elucidation of this fact by many of you is evidence of this. I always gravitated away from him because he seemed like a one-note character to me, what with anger-based power and all, but it probably appeals to a teen crowd that perpetually feels put-upon.

I mean, imagine the lonely piano theme from the old show playing during any of the wankfests that exist currently. It just doesn't fit anymore.

As much as I hate to admit it though, Hulk isn't the only one. Probably why I read way less than I used to.

Originally posted by carver9
Nothing but the truth. Current Hulk is the most powerful being that is walking the planet right now.

I'm sure Adult Franklin Richards and a couple other potential reality warpers would be interested to hear this.