(Dynasty of Evil) Darth Bane -vs- Darth Sidious (Dark Empire)

Nephthys
Yes. He can open wormholes and teleport himself around despite never doing that once.

Not true:

Star Wars: Gamer #5
The moment the Emperor "died" at the Battle of Endor, Droga fell into an inexplicable insanity, butchering his crew and causing the Emperor's Shadow to plunge into Kaal's oceans. Even as he perished, Palpatine used the dark side knowledge the Sith Lords had granted him years earlier to rend space itself and transmigrate his essence across lightyears to Droga's body. The infusion of Palpatine's overwhelming dark side energies reduced Droga to incoherent madness. Eventually, Palpatine's Grand Vizier Pestage was able to find Droga and tear the Emperor's essence from Droga's body.

He actually did do it, once. I'm pretty sure this excerpt has already been posted and you don't strike me as a dishonest person, so I'm sure it just slipped your mind.

Thank goodness I was here to remind you.

I'm looking for where it says 'wormhole' in that quote.

And y'know I just can't seem to find it. Funny how that works out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm looking for where it says 'wormhole' in that quote.

And y'know I just can't seem to find it. Funny how that works out.

A rend in the space-time continuum? Sounds like a wormhole to me. Do you think if I look up the term I'll find a suspiciously similar definition?

'Space-time?' It just says space. Kind of like he's.... Folding Space.

Originally posted by Nephthys
'Space-time?' It just says space. Kind of like he's.... [b]Folding Space. [/B]

You mean, kinda like a Force Storm is known to do?

Book of Sith
The churning energy mass of a Force Storm can consume everything it touches, for at its eye is pure hate. Just as a black hole devours a star, this storm can swallow armies and fold space.

😂

I'm pretty sure this quote was given to you too in this very thread. Early on-set Alzheimer's or selective memory?

Its what another technique is known to do. And since theres no way to tell which one he's using, its impossible to say that he used Force Storm in regards to that quote as opposed to the Fold Space technique.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its what another technique is known to do. And since theres no way to tell which one he's using, its impossible to say that he used Force Storm in regards to that quote as opposed to the Fold Space technique.

😐

[list]
[*]We know Palpatine is a practitioner of the Force Storm technique (Dark Empire, Book of Sith)
[*]We do not know if Palpatine is a practitioner of the Fold Space technique.
[*]We know that the Force Storm can teleport objects safely from one point to another across the galaxy (Dark Empire) and fits the description for what occurred[/list]

I thought Sidious was a master of all known techniques, previously unknown techniques and invented new ones at his leisure. Revan was a practioner and Bane's Order held his knowledge, and so was Darth Jadus. Its not like the technique was massively obscure.

And we do not know that the technique can teleport oneself over those distances. I've already explained why such a thing is illogical. Other than that theres still no actual proof that he used one technique rather than the other, just speculation.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I thought Sidious was a master of all known techniques, previously unknown techniques and invented new ones at his leisure.

If that were true, then all threads concerning Sidious would end with the other guy dead.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan was a practioner

Source?

Originally posted by Nephthys
and Bane's Order held his knowledge,

All of it?

Originally posted by Nephthys
and so was Darth Jadus.

Me
Source?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its not like the technique was massively obscure.

It was extremely obscure and largely the domain of the elusive Aing Ti.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And we do not know that the technique can teleport oneself over those distances.

Why would Palpatine be an exception?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I've already explained why such a thing is illogical.

Refer me to this explanation, please.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Other than that theres still no actual proof that he used one technique rather than the other, just speculation.

It's a pretty strong case of deductive reasoning. Palpatine transmigrated himself through space using an unnamed technique; Palpatine's Force Storms are known to rend space and transport objects through space in line with what the description gives us. Your alternative is that Sidious used a technique he is not known to possess and casually declare it equally likely.

Bane wins, end of story. 😎

That's all you need to know.

We decided to settle the debate elsewhere btw. I didn't just chicken out of replying.

Oh I know you wouldn't do that.

Sorry for bumping it, then.

My mistake.

Neph, sorry, man but these quotes:

"The churning energy mass of a Force Storm can consume everything it touches, for at its eye is pure hate. Just as a black hole devours a star, this storm can swallow armies and fold space."

Palpatine describes the creation of his Force Storm in his Book of Anger.

"I have learned that Anger and Will, joined together, are the greatest Power.
I have learned to meditate upon Anger and Will with clarity and precision, and I have learned to open the hidden reservoirs of Dark Side Power.
Anger concentrated by Will in the vital center of the body creates a portal through which vast energies are released—the energies of the dark side of the Force.
Standing watch with the mind, in my meditation of Anger, I have slain my enemies from great distances, through the dark side Power that permeates the galaxy. I have created lightning, and unleashed its destructive fire.
Using this knowledge, I can unleash the dark side energies that are all around us, even to shatter the fabric of space itself. In this way, I have created storms.
Through a simple act of Will, I can generate Force Storms, energy storms that are vastly destructive and virtually unstoppable. Although triggering such storms requires merely thought and inclination, I admit I am not yet able to completely control the phenomenon. Among my goals is to perfect this control."

Also, I'd advise anyone to remember Dark Empire when Palpatine uses the Force Storm to transport Luke to byss.

And Battle? Yeah, sorry, but Bane is below Palpatine in force, sabers and speed here. If Johun freaking Othone could act before he struck on Worror?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Neph, sorry, man but these quotes:

What about them?

Should it not be obvious? He used a force storm in the time in question. It is stated factually that a Force Storm can fold space and we've seen him use it as a transportation before

Why do you guys keep pointing out that it can fold space. I know it can; I've said it can. Simply because it is described in the same way as the Fold Space technique's name doesn't make them the same technique or anything. Force Storm specifically opens a Hyperspace Wormhole in order to transport things. Yes, we've seen him do that to Luke, but not himself. The Fold Space technique does something different. Stop being hung up on the name.

How can he maintain a wormhole while he's inside it? Or rather, how could he open a wormhole back into regular space while he's in Hyperspace, which I'll remind you is a completely different dimension/alternate mode of physical existence to regular space? There no way he could target that while he's inside it. He'd open a wormhole into a wall, or halfway through a moon or something. And thats not even getting into maintaining it while travelling through it. Its logically impossible for him to achieve this.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why do you guys keep pointing out that it can fold space. I know it can; I've said it can. Simply because it is described in the same way as the Fold Space technique's name doesn't make them the same technique or anything. Force Storm specifically opens a Hyperspace Wormhole in order to transport things. Yes, we've seen him do that to Luke, but not himself.

You're using a weak excuse. He uses an ability that sounds [b]exactly like a force storm, that he can trigger with nothing but an inclination of will.

How can he maintain a wormhole while he's inside it? Or rather, how could he open a wormhole back into regular space while he's in Hyperspace, which I'll remind you is a completely different dimension/alternate mode of physical existence to regular space? There no way he could target that while he's inside it. He'd open a wormhole into a wall, or halfway through a moon or something. And thats not even getting into maintaining it while travelling through it. Its logically impossible for him to achieve this. [/B]

How can he not open a path between points a and B and traverse it while maintaining it from within, precisely?

Sidious opened a rend in the space time continuum to transmigrate his essence to Kaal to possess Droga.

A force storm is a rend in space. It is the only one I know of that is described in a similar manner.

It's an incredibly strong deductive argument.

The idea that it cannot be so because it would be "impossible" for Palpatinea mundane person languishing under strict limitations in terms of perception, reflex, and metaphysical aptitude loses its luster when otherwise impossible feats are performed routinely because of the Force.

Said feats are always explained and logically consistent within the established setting. What you're suggesting isn't.

As an aside, what exactly is the point of this argument again?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Said feats are always explained

Yes, often times in three words: "with the Force."

Hardly an erudite and sophisticated explanation as to why some characters are able to lift their hands and levitate objects or cast lethal bolts of energy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
and logically consistent within the established setting.

Not true. Jedi and Sith routinely demonstrate superhuman perception in terms of physical vision, clairvoyance, and precognition. Nothing is out of the ordinary, especially when such characters can navigate through space and hyperspace through the Force, it is simply a matter of scale.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What you're suggesting isn't.

Hardly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
As an aside, what exactly is the point of this argument again?

That, with mere thought and inclination, Sidious can launch his opponent through a wormhole of his own design with virtually zero risk to himself.