I think you are underselling Yoda a bit there. Ulic isn't all too impressive imo. Yoda would probably end up killing Ulic shortly after Kenobi dies.
What makes you think that Kenobi dies that quickly anyways? He can dodge you know.
Either way, I see it coming down to Kun and Yoda. And thats roughly 50/50 in my mind at the moment.
Originally posted by Arhael
From your logic Yoda would beat Kun rather simply as well because Uliq and Kun were on par in lightsaber combat.
They were on par when Kun was using single saber Niman, then Kun built his double bladed saber and developed his unique style. After that, Kun was in a league of his own.
This would be the reason:
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
adult image hostingThe emphasis here is on the 'hundreds of thousands of times' that Kun's rage is multiplied, which enables him to unleash powerful energies. This same amulet, both when worn by Kun and Sadow, glows when the Force it used. The implication is that it fuels and amplifies his Force powers. Even if you consider stock Kun as being slightly above average in Force power (which is an extremely conservative position), his power/rage being multiplied exponentially proves a problem for his opponents. Remember, the Dark Side is empowered by rage; we see it in Anakin, we see it in Kun, Malgus, Vitiate, Sidious, and more.
So I find your conviction, in light of the evidence, surprising.
See above. Both are master lightsaber duelist, and since neither is really well represented in live media, the best conclusion we can reach is that it could go either way. Ulic, although a weakling in the Force compared to amulet-amped Kun, was able to stalemate the Dark Lord with incredible natural fencing talent. It's logical to believe that Revan is also incredibly talented in this field; his victory over Malak in extremely unfavorable settings proves this. But there's no neutral bar to measure both parties, and no live action to better analyze their defenses and relative speeds.
As for the Force, Kun has demonstrated being peerless in his own era. Jedi Masters and Knights all fell before him. An ability specifically used to cut off Force users from the Force itself (entitled 'Wall of Light'😉 only serves to push him back and annoy him. His suspension of the Senate and mental domination of the chancellor was incredibly impressive as a casual showing of power, and the way in which he overpowered Vodo's staff (which the old Jedi made 'stronger than a lightsaber' in resistance via the Force itself) speaks either of superior strength, or an application of the Force which can easily overpower others.
And that's not even touching some of the things he did as a mere spirit after centuries and centuries in madness and isolation.
You realize a large part of his success with a saber is probably due to the fact he invented a whole new type of saber, and a style to go with it, correct?
As evidenced in PoD, fighting somebody with an unfamiliar saber is very difficult, no matter how powerful they are. (Note, this applies to the saber itself, not the style) Which implies that Kun is not a, "master duelist" since he did what most people wouldn't have thought of: He created a saber of his own, one with two blades.
Now, I have not read most of the comics that feature him, I mostly have vague things to run off of. So please, enlighten me as to who he beat with his lightsaber hwo was not completely unfamiliar with this new weapon.
Also, the Wall of Light denial isn't as impressive when put with the fact that he has those amulets.
Originally posted by Pwned
You realize a large part of his success with a saber is probably due to the fact he invented a whole new type of saber, and a style to go with it, correct?As evidenced in PoD, fighting somebody with an unfamiliar saber is very difficult, no matter how powerful they are. (Note, this applies to the saber itself, not the style) Which implies that Kun is not a, "master duelist" since he did what most people wouldn't have thought of: He created a saber of his own, one with two blades.
Now, I have not read most of the comics that feature him, I mostly have vague things to run off of. So please, enlighten me as to who he beat with his lightsaber hwo was not completely unfamiliar with this new weapon.
Also, the Wall of Light denial isn't as impressive when put with the fact that he has those amulets.
Er, wait me?
Oh naw, I agree with you about the double-bladed lightsaber. Kun has jack crap in the way of feats for that thing. I think his best feat was matching Uliq 'I can fight evenly with an enraged Jedi without the Force and 15 years out of practice' Qel'Droma in a lightsaber fight myself. Which happened before he upgraded to a doublebladed.
He's still got his amulets her so I don't see why thats suddenly not impressive.
This whole "hurrrr amulet spam" argument needs to stop.
By Kun's own admission, not only are the amulet blasts nearly impossible to aim, and not only does using the amulets cause him physical damage, but by the omniscient narrators own statements, he can "barely control them", and just using them "nearly destroys him".
Exar Kun's amulets are a non-factor here. He can barely aim them while shooting at slow moving massasi and hundred foot long immobile worms, the latter of which Ray Charles could probably tag with a rifle.
I always wondered why Exar Kun never used his amulet blasts again after that massasi fight, and as of reading TotJ last week, I know why: he can't tag a Jedi with them.
Let's take a second and look at how fast Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were moving here, starting at :09 in.
They literally traveled like 60 feet in less than a second with force speed.
That was Padawan Kenobi, mind you, not peak of his power, Return of the Sith kenobi.
So against RotS Kenobi and ****ing Yoda? He's not hitting shit, and he'll barely be able to get a single shot off anyway before they're right in his face waving lightsabers around.
Not that it would even matter. There's nothing stopping Yoda, one of the most powerful lightsiders in the entire mythos, from just ripping Exar Kun's arms off with the force, attached amulets and all, at the very start of the match.
Frankly, Yoda could just solo them both with the force. Neither Ulic nor Exar Kun ever displayed any impressive force abilities within the storylines. Ulic, especially, is the weak link here, showing literally nothing throughout the entirety of his screen time in way of impressive force feats.
As far as lightsaber skills, either of the PT Jedi can solo. Ulic held off featless wonder Sylvar without the force. Wow, big deal. Greivous held off half a dozen Jedi, some of whom were masters, two of which were council members, with almost no effort at all. That didn't stop Obi-Wan from handing him his ass in a lightsaber duel. Exar Kun's greatest display of lightsaber prowess is beating featless wonder Crado and featless wonder Mr. Crabs, who wasn't even using a lightsaber.
TL;DR There is no evidence found within the Totj comics that could be used to make a compelling argument for Ulic and Exar Kun winning this fight on any level, whether it be through the force or via lightsabers.
Ah, just went back and checked, and you're right. I'd forgotten it happened since it literally only lasted a single panel.
Dunno what's giving you that idea, though. He managed to hit Aleema, who was standing completely still and did nothing to stop it. And as for the burning, the panel changes from him blasting Aleema to him immediately dueling Ulic on the next panel. So, don't see how you can draw that conclusion.
edit- Also, it's worth noting that aside from knocking her out, the blast did no damage to her at all, despite the fact that Kun had arrived there specifically to kill them both.
Was there any defence against the amulets shown? I have not read these comics, so.... Yeah.
Anyways, if she was standing still, then the issue arises that we don't know just how well he can hit moving targets, let alone one jumping up around everywhere.
And Kenobi did show the ability to use Force Speed in combat with the droidekas, so he could just run up and get in Kun's face. Theres no doubt he could hold off Kun and Ulic long enough for Yoda to get up there.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
This whole "hurrrr amulet spam" argument needs to stop.By Kun's own admission, not only are the amulet blasts nearly impossible to aim, and not only does using the amulets cause him physical damage, but by the omniscient narrators own statements, he can "barely control them", and just using them "nearly destroys him".
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Ah, just went back and checked, and you're right. I'd forgotten it happened since it literally only lasted a single panel.Dunno what's giving you that idea, though. He managed to hit Aleema, who was standing completely still and did nothing to stop it. And as for the burning, the panel changes from him blasting Aleema to him immediately dueling Ulic on the next panel. So, don't see how you can draw that conclusion.
edit- Also, it's worth noting that aside from knocking her out, the blast did no damage to her at all, despite the fact that Kun had arrived there specifically to kill them both.
Bare in mind that Kun had literally just gotten the amulet and fallen to the dark side. All Force Powers take time to master, even moreso in this case as he was still new to the dark side. IMO, hitting Aleema with it shows that he had progressed in his mastery of it enough to use it casually.
Theres no pain there. He points at her and takes her out easily. As for not killing her, unless Aleema is more durable than a wall or a Sith Wrym then I don't see how it could be abything else than he went easy on her. Perhaps he had questions for her.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Exar Kun's amulets are a non-factor here. He can barely aim them while shooting at slow moving massasi and hundred foot long immobile worms, the latter of which Ray Charles could probably tag with a rifle.
Massassi are a Force Sensitive species and can tag Jedi in combat. Also remember that it was the massassi rebelling that killed many of the Sith Lords of the Sith Golden Age.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I always wondered why Exar Kun never used his amulet blasts again after that massasi fight, and as of reading TotJ last week, I know why: he can't tag a Jedi with them.
IMO, if he can hit Massassi with it even with barely any control, thats not the case.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Let's take a second and look at how fast Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were moving here, starting at :09 in.They literally traveled like 60 feet in less than a second with force speed.
That was Padawan Kenobi, mind you, not peak of his power, Return of the Sith kenobi.
So against RotS Kenobi and ****ing Yoda? He's not hitting shit, and he'll barely be able to get a single shot off anyway before they're right in his face waving lightsabers around.
I'd say we should consider the mediums at work here. Its harder to get across how fast someone is from still images, as in a comic, than it is in a movie or a book.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Not that it would even matter. There's nothing stopping Yoda, one of the most powerful lightsiders in the entire mythos, from just ripping Exar Kun's arms off with the force, attached amulets and all, at the very start of the match.
Yoda: "A Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense...never for attack."
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
As far as lightsaber skills, either of the PT Jedi can solo. Ulic held off featless wonder Sylvar without the force. Wow, big deal.
As I have in the past, I'll defend Sylvar from those with poor memories. Featless? Hardly. She's tagged Exar Kun himself, fought Basalisk War Droids, killed Hssiss, killed Massassi warriors with her bare hands and killed an entire nest of Kiltik single handedly. If you don't know what those are:
.... They're pretty big. And there were a lot of them as seen in that second image. Sylvar killed them all, by herself, without losing her breath (Twilek dude didn't do anything). Plus she could hold a fat man in the air with one hand. Also she was skilled enough with the Force to deflect blaster bolts with her hands, an advanced technique.
The fact that Uliq could hold her off despite her rage (known to increase a Jedi powers, see Luke vs Vader) without the Force is one of the most impressive displays of swordsmanship in the mythos imo.
Killing armies of giant bugs and basilisk war droids is not an indicator of dueling skills, however. She wasn't doing anything that every other character in the series wasn't also doing, thus, dismissing her is perfectly accurate, when killing fodder is all she has ever done.
As for your argument as a whole, it's all speculation. None of it based on anything resembling canon or showings, just your own interpretation. That's nice, but it's not an argument.