HE knowing what magic is about and being able to deal with it doesn't mean that Doom's tried and true knowledge of magic isn't an notable advantage. The guy was recently stated to possess magic more powerful than Dr. Strange and Wanda (pre HoM) and in a flashback, embarrassed Strange before his depowerment. The guy even held his own briefly against Morgan Le Fay, who ambushed him. Unless HE has some really absurd magic showings or tech on hand to even the field in that respect, I am not seeing how Doom's mystical might isn't a significant advantage here.
HE might have been able to contend with Doom's magic around the early 2000's, but he's gotten significantly better since then.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankHE upgraded ulik, and diablo used HE technology to power the destroyer armor and siphon power from all the skyfathers of earth including odin.
HE knowing what magic is about and being able to deal with it doesn't mean that Doom's tried and true knowledge of magic isn't an notable advantage. The guy was recently stated to possess magic more powerful than Dr. Strange and Wanda (pre HoM) and in a flashback, embarrassed Strange before his depowerment. The guy even held his own briefly against Morgan Le Fay, who ambushed him. Unless HE has some really absurd magic showings or tech on hand to even the field in that respect, I am not seeing how Doom's mystical might isn't a significant advantage here.HE might have been able to contend with Doom's magic around the early 2000's, but he's gotten significantly better since then.
he created a pocket dimension within asgard.
its in this arc
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2104/41947459.jpg
he proved to have more magic than thor.
High Evolutionary's evolution tech is his own creation through experimentation. He evolved himself to a higher state of being, and with that came a higher capacity for intelligence (and a degree of cosmic awareness). Even before he evolved himself he was a high caliber geneticist and engineer. His evolved state is a direct result of his applying his genius to himself.
Now, he was Mr. Sinister's protege, but he's surpassed Sinister by a significant degree at this point, and Sinister's not a slouch in intelligence himself (actually an underated genius in his own right when you consider his knowledge in engineering and biotech though he's mainly known for genetics).
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
HE upgraded ulik, and diablo used HE technology to power the destroyer armor and siphon power from all the skyfathers of earth including odin.he created a pocket dimension within asgard.
its in this arc
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2104/41947459.jpghe proved to have more magic than thor.
In that same arc High Evolutionary created his own herald, stole Surfer's powers and rendered him a mortal, and co-opted Galactus's tech and repurposed it to replenish planets and create self sustaining life, and was in the process of creating new, 'better', Gods.
^ The events in the Silver Surfer mini can be mined for instances where Dr. Doom clearly surpassed High Evolutionary in similar circumstances.
Originally posted by MF DELPHI wasn't referring to Nathaniel Essex, or even Professor Drew. I was talking about the Inhuman, Phaeder. Maelstrom's father.
High Evolutionary's evolution tech is his own creation through experimentation. He evolved himself to a higher state of being, and with that came a higher capacity for intelligence (and a degree of cosmic awareness). Even before he evolved himself he was a high caliber geneticist and engineer. His evolved state is a direct result of his applying his genius to himself.Now, he was Mr. Sinister's protege, but he's surpassed Sinister by a significant degree at this point, and Sinister's not a slouch in intelligence himself (actually an underated genius in his own right when you consider his knowledge in engineering and biotech though he's mainly known for genetics).
I wouldn't say that Phaeder teaching HE (and others) about the human genome negates HE from being intelligent himself (in the field of genetics). You can hand a normal person the schematics for nuclear bombs and teach them about physics and that won't necessarily result in that person becoming a nuclear physicist, and it's also not like Doom didn't have teachers himself and then expand upon what he learned. That's a pretty hollow point.
I stand by High Evolutionary being smarter than Doom.
^ This isn't Kang stumbling upon Doom's time machine, which is the type of situation you seem to be forcing here. Phaeder literally handed Herbert the secret to breaking genetic codes. An Inhuman scientist whose race literally revolves around genetics and evolution. And I don't recall that being limited to humans as his experimentation resulted in evolving a dog.
Nobody literally handed Doom the secret to mastering magic or tech. Herbert wasn't taught or tutored. He was handed the crib sheet.
Your point being?
What you're saying is equivalent to saying that a physicist that used Einstein's Theory of Relativity as a framework, like Stephen Hawkins, for example, and then went on to further expand their knowledge of physics beyond that starting point, is a hack. Not to mention the fact that High Evolutionary is a master engineer, physicist, etc, on top of being the premiere geneticist on Marvel Earth.
Here's the incident:
Phaeder literally just tossed High Evolutionary a notepad with the map of the genetic code. No equipment, no resources, just a stack of notes. High Evolutionary went on to create technology which allowed him to evolve farm animals into highly intelligent bipedal humanoids, turned himself into a God like cosmic being, and created and terraformed an exact artificial replica of 616 Earth, as well as it's populace, to perfection, which is beyond the scope of those initial notes.
I stand by High Evolutionary being smarter than Dr. Doom.
Originally posted by MF DELPHA stack of notes that was the Inhuman blueprint for cracking the genetic code. The very basis of High Evolutionary's science/focus. This is a crib sheet. Completely and utterly unearned through tutelage or discipline. Invoking the abstract theory of relativity doesn't work here. The theory of relativity is not a blueprint for cracking/breaking/manipulating physics.
Your point being?What you're saying is equivalent to saying that a physicist that used Einstein's Theory of Relativity as a framework, like Stephen Hawkins, for example, and then went on to further expand their knowledge of physics beyond that starting point, is a hack. Not to mention the fact that High Evolutionary is a master engineer, physicist, etc, on top of being the premiere geneticist on Marvel Earth.
Here's the incident:
Phaeder literally just tossed High Evolutionary a notepad with the map of the genetic code. No equipment, no resources, just a stack of notes. High Evolutionary went on to create technology which allowed him to evolve farm animals into highly intelligent bipedal humanoids, turned himself into a God like cosmic being, and created and terraformed an exact artificial replica of 616 Earth, as well as it's populace, to perfection, which is beyond the scope of those initial notes.
I stand by High Evolutionary being smarter than Dr. Doom.
After this jumpstart, he managed to turn a dog into a chimp-like humanoid through his own efforts. Clumsy, to say the least. Then he met multiple other individuals such as Mr. Sinister, Professor Drew, the Jackal, who were instrumental in many of his later advancements and achievements. These weren't passerbys but close, intimate collaborators.
In any event, how much you and I want to quibble over how important they were will lead to no resolution if we cannot even agree on Phaeder's involvement here.
Originally posted by Colossus-Big CI wouldn't refer to the God Complex storyline in Iron Man/Thor to make your argument. High Evolutionary worked closely with Diablo to do what he did there and his complete reliance on Diablo's expertise wasn't just illustrated, but self-admitted. Them sending their minions to steal artifacts from Baron Mordo, Moses Magnum and Asgard is even lower than the types of "cheap" accomplishments being derided from the anti-Doom camp.
HE upgraded ulik, and diablo used HE technology to power the destroyer armor and siphon power from all the skyfathers of earth including odin.he created a pocket dimension within asgard.
its in this arc
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2104/41947459.jpghe proved to have more magic than thor.
Doom can only steal godly powers like the Power Cosmic? At least Doom invented his Power Cosmic Siphon Harness himself, whereas High Evolutionary had to steal Starktech to steal Surfer's powers. And going on in that storyline, High Evolutionary cribbed Galactus' tech to make a Herald and then surrendered to Galactus immediately upon being confronted. Doom cribbed Galactus' tech and stripped Galactus of all his power and went on to eventually combat the Beyonder. Hell, High Evolutionary had trouble with just even Surfer's cosmic awareness, whereas Doom completely acclimated to Galactus'.
Originally posted by Colossus-Big CDo you have examples of these blasts? I don't remember what you're referring to.
Doom is alot more clever. But this doesnt make him smarter though.
And I agree doom has the magic edge.
Im just saying. What happens if doom gets hit with the same blast that mindraped thor? Or even better a devolving blast?
Doom has actually resisted one of High Evolutionary's devices that transformed the entire world's population out of sheer will.
Originally posted by ODGIt was in his fight with thor, although he caught thor off guard, he hit thor with a blast to the head that mindraped him. thor was out cold the rest of the comic.
Do you have examples of these blasts? I don't remember what you're referring to.Doom has actually resisted one of High Evolutionary's devices that transformed the entire world's population out of sheer will.
He also mindraped Moondragon if that counts as anything.
Iirc his creation "man beast" also mindraped thor before.
Originally posted by ODGYea you missed the thor vs high evolutionary fight. And HE mindphucking moondragon. Ill try to post the scans.
^ I don't recall any of this. And I've read a lot. I do recall Thor beating the ever-loving crap out of Man-Beast the first time they fought. Is there another battle I missed?
