Black Racer vs. FP Kuurth

Originally posted by Stoic
Titles as a trump card? Come on man. What i am saying is that because Superman is not extra-planar (magical), his blows could not affect BR, but there is no proof that a punch from a magical being could not affect him. Superman is not the yard stick, I can go with the eternal stalemate. Kuurth has lots of implied feats on his side as well.

As to your other point, what proof have you that the reason why Superman couldn't hurt (and then later got owned by) Black Racer was because Superman is non magical?

And implied feats? 😠

Originally posted by Stoic
You see the problem with you is that you dismiss things without fully comprehending, or you comprehend but are too set in your mind to automatically disagree with me. I bet you didn't even understand my point lol. You do realize that what i said has occurred many times in comics. Comic writers have adopted the D&D laws in many cases that involve mystical, magical, or spiritual beings.

But it didn't occur in this comic, therefore you're making it up. We can't have rational debates when the "proof" comes from D&D.

Its like arguing that since Kuurth could be teleported away (the Serpent did it when he was fighting Juggerlossus), then obviously, an multiplanar being could do it.

BR BFR FTW

Originally posted by Cogito
We can't have rational debates when the "proof" comes from D&D.

What beats Death? Characters that are immune to it's affects? In a comic CIS on I bet BR would never even attempt to face Kuurth, because it would be pointless. I'm edging towards Zop's idea of an eternal stalemate. The Juggernaut is incapable of dying, he does not need air, food, light he could float in space forever, and never die unless Cyttorak releases him. Add the Serpent, and you have quite the beast on your hands (far above Superman under certain close quarter conditions).

Has anyone ever seen a comic that two world destroyers fail to destroy a city, and yet they were going all out? Plot induced stupidity? Superman would break his hand on Kuurth's impossibly durable face, if he hit him like he hit Doomsday. He was twice the threat that he was, while only having the Juggernaut's abilities. He took Thor's best PIS shot to the face without flinching during the 8th day. The Serpent was seen to hold his own against a Juggernaut (Peter), and even fractured several bones in him. Cyttorak said on panel that he gives Peter more than he ever did Cain, meaning he can become far more than Cain ever could. I believe it to be his potential TBH. All the same they stacked as Kuurth, making Cain puny in comparison.

Look I was just discussing comics, and what i thought the possibilities could be. No one has to agree this fight will never happen.

Originally posted by Cogito
But it didn't occur in this comic, therefore you're making it up. We can't have rational debates when the "proof" comes from D&D.

This is where I lost you. Oh OK, let me explain it a little better for you. Sorry, I explained it in a way that you misinterpreted. I wasn't really talking about proof, but the concept. CONCEPT get it? Not proof. Do you understand what I mean now? No?

This is where I lose you. Let me explain it a little better for you.

You can't make up weaknesses because other completely unrelated people have completely unrelated weaknesses

Originally posted by zopzop
Titles? It was SHOWN ON PANEL that Black Racer was Death Abstract as the Inevitable. Endless Death was Death Abstract as Compassionate Release and Nekron was Death Abstract as Cosmic Certainty/The Final Foe. It's not a title, it's his station. He's Death representing Death as Inevitability.

As to your other point, what proof have you that the reason why Superman couldn't hurt (and then later got owned by) Black Racer was because Superman is non magical?

And implied feats? 😠

Some characters can only be scored on by certain things, whether they be fetishes (voodoo dolls, paraphernalia), iron, steel, silver etc... It is known the BR was killed by magical forces. Who is to say that Cain could not score on him, but it having less to do with the impact, and more to do with the substance. It can be argued that's all that I am saying. It's not cut and dry, if BFR was off and they were forced to battle, neither may be hurt. They are both immortal. A Juggernaut cannot die.

Originally posted by Cogito
This is where I lose you. Let me explain it a little better for you.

[b]You can't make up weaknesses because other completely unrelated people have completely unrelated weaknesses [/B]

Well then prove how BR wins, and please do it without using titles, and he is this of this. Just drop it. Why does BR win? Why is this not a stalemate? Why cant Kuurth hurt BR? do it to it man.

Originally posted by Cogito
This is where I lose you. Let me explain it a little better for you.

[b]You can't make up weaknesses because other completely unrelated people have completely unrelated weaknesses [/B]

And yet his heart was pulled out by extra-planar forces, so we now know without a shadow of a MOFO doubt, that BR has a weakness. Am I correct?

Originally posted by Stoic
Some characters can only be scored on by certain things, whether they be fetishes (voodoo dolls, paraphernalia), iron, steel, silver etc... It is known the BR was killed by magical forces. Who is to say that Cain could not score on him, but it having less to do with the impact, and more to do with the substance. It can be argued that's all that I am saying. It's not cut and dry, if BFR was off and they were forced to battle, neither may be hurt. They are both immortal. A Juggernaut cannot die.

BR was killed by ELITE/abstract magical forces. Infinity Man tapping into Source Wall. Serpent or Cytorrak aren't that level, let alone their servant. So it's safe to say BR has nothing to fear from Kuurth.

FP Kuurth did nothing, absolutely NOTHING impressive on panel. BR tanking a moon cratering/cracking punch without flinching and CASUALLY beating Superman is >>>>>>>>>>>anything Kuurth has done.

Aside from being an aspect of death (literally), BR damn-near killed an enraged Superman with the merest twitch of his eyeball (literally.) Kuurth has no chance (literally.)

Superman breaking his hand on kuurth? Colossus didn't and what is this nonsense about superman unable to affect magical beings which BR is not to start with? Superman has koed captain marvel in two punches who is pure magical.

Oh and Infinity man is not a magical being.

BR BFRs Kuurth. Don't say that Pixie couldn't do it; The Serpent could.

Black Racer is up there in terms of power; Kuurth is obviously weak to BFRing by sufficiently powerful forces.

Therefore, Black Racer BFRs Kuurth for the easy win.

Oh, and even though the Infinity Man tore his heart out, guess what - he was there chasing Barry at the end of Infinite Crisis - so he obv ain't weak to that lol.

Originally posted by zopzop
Bro I'm about to suplex you off the Palisades and into the Hudson!

BR was killed by ELITE/abstract magical forces. Infinity Man tapping into Source Wall. Serpent or Cytorrak aren't that level, let alone their servant. So it's safe to say BR has nothing to fear from Kuurth.

FP Kuurth did nothing, absolutely NOTHING impressive on panel. BR tanking a moon cratering/cracking punch without flinching and CASUALLY beating Superman is >>>>>>>>>>>anything Kuurth has done.

You see that's your opinion, but it still does not mean that BR wins this. Titles mean nothing when the guy that you are facing cannot die, and is literally out of you reach. BR holds no power over Kuurth, there are no reprisals for Cain to suffer He can not die. This is simple. You see I have always noticed that titles and prestige take precedence over ability here on this forum. Zop it's a stalemate man.

Also anything, about Cyttorak's full power has never been written. Aside from being the destroyer of all things. Sounds pretty powerful to me.

Originally posted by Galan007
Aside from being an aspect of death (literally), BR damn-near killed an enraged Superman with the merest twitch of his eyeball (literally.) Kuurth has no chance (literally.)

Superman has no enchantment protecting him like Cain as Kuurth had. The Serpent was a huge spell caster, how the hell can anyone be sure that that portion of Cain could not manipulate death? There's some things to be considered here whether anyone wants to or not. BR certainly can do no harm to a creature beyond death.

Originally posted by Stoic
You see that's your opinion, but it still does not mean that BR wins this. Titles mean nothing when the guy that you are facing cannot die, and is literally out of you reach. BR holds no power over Kuurth, there are no reprisals for Cain to suffer He can not die. This is simple. You see I have always noticed that titles and prestige take precedence over ability here on this forum. Zop it's a stalemate man.

Also anything, about Cyttorak's full power has never been written. Aside from being the destroyer of all things. Sounds pretty powerful to me.

A) It's not a title, it's his station! He's a freaking aspect of Death. Death as Inevitability.

B) He has better on panel showings than Kuurth.

C) Cytorrak has ZERO on panel feats worth mentioning except shutting down 1/5 of the PF while in his dimension. Compare that to Mephisto stalemating Galactus in his Hell with 616 reality being wrecked as a result.

EDIT :
Beyond Death? One of the beings empowering Kuurth is.............wait for it...................DEAD.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman breaking his hand on kuurth? Colossus didn't and what is this nonsense about superman unable to affect magical beings which BR is not to start with? Superman has koed captain marvel in two punches who is pure magical.

The New Gods do not have a magical nature? It's about Kuurth being made or enchanted by sterner stuff than Superman. Yes I am directly saying, that if they were both bombarded by increasingly greater doses of punishment until one was turned to mush, Kuurth would be standing while Superman would be meat. Superman was unable to affect black Racer because his natural state did not register with BR's natural state. It's like shooting a missile at an Angel and expecting it to affect it. One is physical the other is immune to the physical, being metaphysical.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh and Infinity man is not a magical being.

Does the Infinity Man Forever People, or any of the other NG's have magical natures, or metaphysical natures? Are you splitting hairs? I'm not playing that game.

Originally posted by zopzop
A) It's not a title, it's his station! He's a freaking aspect of Death. Death as Inevitability.

B) He has better on panel showings than Kuurth.

C) Cytorrak has ZERO on panel feats worth mentioning except shutting down 1/5 of the PF while in his dimension. Compare that to Mephisto stalemating Galactus in his Hell with 616 reality being wrecked as a result.

EDIT :
Beyond Death? One of the beings empowering Kuurth is.............wait for it...................DEAD.

The Juggernaut wait for it.... Cannot die. That's really all that they are, are titles, so if you want to call them staions go for it. It still does not mean shyt to a guy outside of BR's influence. Cain is outside of Deaths influence. The feats that we saw from Kuurth may have been smaller in scale, but that does not automatically chart Kuurth's true level of power level. This is really one of those things that can never be proven. I have yet to see how BR hurts Kuurth, without there being an argument to oppose it's validity. Oh well. I'm done here.

Originally posted by Stoic
The New Gods do not have a magical nature? It's about Kuurth being made or enchanted by sterner stuff than Superman. Yes I am directly saying, that if they were both bombarded by increasingly greater doses of punishment until one was turned to mush, Kuurth would be standing while Superman would be meat. Superman was unable to affect black Racer because his natural state did not register with BR's natural state. It's like shooting a missile at an Angel and expecting it to affect it. One is physical the other is immune to the physical, being metaphysical.

New gods are just extra-dimensional beings like asgardians and olympians. There is nothing magical or meta-physical about them. Considering superman has punched through his own death I find your nonsensical prattle about meta-physical and what not just that.....nonsensical.

Superman punches through his own death.
Superman: where is thy sting.

Not to mention that he was pounding away successfully on "meta-physical" Infinity man, I find this even more hilarious

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/DeathOfTheNewGods07b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/DeathOfTheNewGods07c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/DeathOfTheNewGods07d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/DeathOfTheNewGods07e.jpg

Black racer didn't flinch on superman's punch because he is that durable. Oh and if you are trying to compare superman's feats to juggernaut's or kuurth's feats, don't. You wouldn't like to compare feats of durability to superman. For example this is what happens to galactus when sandwiched by two colliding planets

Barely alive. Now under the same writer i.e. Starlin this happened when superman was sandwiched between two planets

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/DeathOfTheNewGods08a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/DeathOfTheNewGods08b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/DeathOfTheNewGods08c.jpg

Now I'm not saying that superman is more durable than galactus but to compare high end feats with superman is futile.

Does the Infinity Man Forever People, or any of the other NG's have magical natures, or metaphysical natures? Are you splitting hairs? I'm not playing that game.

No they are neither magical nor meta-physical.