The Worthy vs Phoenix 5

Originally posted by h1a8
Ok so you are using irrelevant comics now. These events happened after P5 story.
Magik has gotten upgrades over time.
Clearly you see she's different (visually).
Also she physically took out the ruby from Cain.

Feats before or when P5 saga are valid. No feats after receiving upgrades are valid.

So I'll summarize
1. You never showed her creating limbo on the battlefield in which she is still physically present. Hell, in the comic you posted a scan of still shows her going through portals to get to another location.

2. You never proved that she has ABSOLUTE power without fully being inside limbo. You stated it like it was a fact and it's not. I can state non facts all day long without proof. It's easy.

So you didn't even read the comics for which I actually took the time and effort to give you issue numbers for, very nice 👆

You are just trolling at this point.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That scene was shown again in a flashback shortly after the event concluded, iirc.

Though he was stabbing Cyke with his right hand, not his left, I think.

Guess we *could* argue he stabbed him twice and it did nothing. Or maybe it was just an error.

Yup I think I posted both scans too, in my reply to wxyz.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you didn't even read the comics for which I actually took the time and effort to give you issue numbers for, very nice 👆

You are just trolling at this point.

I read most of the comic yes. I have access to most Marvel comics. Just needed the issue numbers. That's why I said what I said.

That version of Magik is irrelevant to this version.
Also, that version did not create limbo on the battlefield. She just physically reached into Marko's chest and retrieved the ruby.

So you are basically assuming that what i said doesn't refute your point because you thought I didn't read the comic?
That's silly logic.
Why would I ask for issue numbers if I'm not going to read the comic and find out what actually happened?

Originally posted by h1a8
I read most of the comic yes. I have access to most Marvel comics. Just needed the issue numbers. That's why I said what I said.

That version of Magik is irrelevant to this version.

Also, that version did not create limbo on the battlefield. She just physically reached into Marko's chest and retrieved the ruby.

So you are basically assuming that what i said doesn't refute your point because you thought I didn't read the comic?
That's silly logic.
Why would I ask for issue numbers if I'm not going to read the comic and find out what actually happened?

1. You never showed her creating limbo on the battlefield in which she is still physically present. Hell, in the comic you posted a scan of still shows her going through portals to get to another location.

2. You never proved that she has ABSOLUTE power without fully being inside limbo. You stated it like it was a fact and it's not. I can state non facts all day long without proof. It's easy.

Please actually read my posts, and actually read the comics. Come back when you have. Thanks.

I see I have to actually hold your hand, though.

Ok, here is Rogue at the entrance to the volcano. Note she does not need any portals, but simply runs back in:
.

Whilst there, she finds Cap Marvel. Who tells of how she tries to escape, not through portals, but by SIMPLY FLYING OUT (only, the demons drag her back):

Don't worry, Rogue is there to help her get out. Except it alerts Magik, who portals back from ELSEWHERE on the planet. Note, however, to escape Limbo - all they need to do is fly out of the volcano:

Other X-men are able to access the Limbo prison, WITHOUT needing to portal in - they just walk in:

Avengers? Walk in (after portaling in as close as they can):

One cannot, after all, teleport in - even if one is Dr Strange:

Make no mistake, however - it is literally Hell on Earth. It is Limbo (even if just a portion). Despite your idiocy:

Originally posted by h1a8
She stated she brought a PIECE of limbo back to Earth (bring a demon back or a sliver of limbo energy). Not then entire dimension. The battlefield consists of the ground and everything above and below until a certain distance away.

She brought her actual domain to Earth - not the ENTIRETY of it, but she doesn't need to. Confirmed by characters, and narration, and ALSO a summary:

Is it Limbo?

Limbo?

Limbo

In summary:

1. Magik brought Limbo TO Earth (not Earth to Limbo, so not BFR).
2. In Limbo, her power over other magical creatures is absolute - even BEFORE she got the P5 amp.
3. On top of this, if pushed too far, her demonic persona comes out (DarkChylde) - and this person was ALWAYS present before P5.
4. The Darkchylde was able to, without amps, tear Cytorrak's Gem out, depowering Juggernaut, casually - without needing to be in Limbo.

I really can't comprehend why this is 7 pages long. We have multiple direct references of power levels via Thor.

Thor can fight any one of the worthy one on one and either one shot them, split with them or maybe even take a loss after a hard fight (null, Kieth) but it would be a fair fight, and it would be even.

Thor, Hulk, Rulk can't even fight a single phoenix avatar 3 on one without getting their shit pushed in.

We also have another direct reference in Red Hulk vs. Angrir/Thing and P5 Namor. Thing did beat the shit outta Rulk but Namor literally ripped his ****ing arm off without looking or even trying.

This alone should be enough to /thread imo

Unless this whole thread is hinging on Magics abilities then I have no idea, don't know shit about her tbh besides her limbo thing and a few haxx instances

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I really can't comprehend why this is 7 pages long. We have multiple direct references of power levels via Thor.

Thor can fight any one of the worthy one on one and either one shot them, split with them or maybe even take a loss after a hard fight (null, Kieth) but it would be a fair fight, and it would be even.

Thor, Hulk, Rulk can't even fight a single phoenix avatar 3 on one without getting their shit pushed in.

We also have another direct reference in Red Hulk vs. Angrir/Thing and P5 Namor. Thing did beat the shit outta Rulk but Namor literally ripped his ****ing arm off without looking or even trying.

This alone should be enough to /thread imo

Unless this whole thread is hinging on Magics abilities then I have no idea, don't know shit about her tbh besides her limbo thing and a few haxx instances

No it's not hinging on Magik - never was. That's the weirdest part.

Even IF four of the P5 were defeated (somehow - Emma was literally shattered and thrown into space, and it didn't harm her, and as the P5 fall the remaining guys get even more powerful), how the phuck is anyone taking down Cyclops/whoever the remaining Phoenix avatar is???

It's 7 pages long because h1 is attempting to construct an argument having never read any of the comics in question - note how he never posts scans or proofs of his own, but calls others into question? Yeah, that's how he 'debates'. The burden of proof is never on him, he always tries to pick holes in others' arguments.

Excellent job DS, I agree.

Magik can solo The Worthy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Then why did you say they needed portals to access the prison? Because they didn't. Nor did Rogue/Ms Marvel need portals to attempt to escape. [/B]

DarkChilde Magik is still applicable.

OK? I never said DarkChilde created Limbo - please go back and ACTUALLY READ MY POSTS, lmao.

No, I KNOW you didn't read the comicS I gave you the numbers for, because you said stupid stuff like this:

Nope.

She brought Limbo to Earth. And she has power in Limbo.

Please actually read my posts, and actually read the comics. Come back when you have. Thanks.

Wrong! I gave examples of what it means to bring A PIECE of limbo to Earth. In every post you are trying to deceive others by leaving out "A PIECE ". She bought limbo to Earth and she brought A PIECE of limbo to Earth are two different things. Then you state that she has absolute power WITH A PIECE because you say so.

Originally posted by h1a8
I never stated such things. Your original argument is that she can be in limbo while still being physically on the battlefield. You never showed this. All showings show otherwise.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Hell, in the comic you posted a scan of still shows her going through portals to get to another location.

You then use a weak argument about her stating she brought a PIECE of limbo to Earth when in fact that doesn't prove anything. It doesn't deduce either
1. He can create a full limbo dimension on top of battlefield where she is still physically present.

Doesn't need to be the full Limbo dimension.

2. More importantly, that she has absolute power without fully being in the limbo dimension or with A PIECE of limbo being on Earth. Because you say so? Good logic.

'This is my place of power'.

Not my words. Not even my emphasis, lol.

Show Magik operating like that version without being in limbo. Show Magik physically removing something from a durable subject while on Esrtg only.

Then why use the scan? Especially when the argument is about limbo being on the battlefield. Why change arguments randomly? Nothing stated was stupid. If I didn't read the comic then how did I know that she was opening portals to go to different locations (as shown a few pages before your scan). Remember I was still thinking you were arguing about limbo being on the battlefield. I had no clue you changed arguments.

Wrong! I gave examples of what it means to bring A PIECE of limbo to Earth. In every post you are trying to deceive others by leaving out "A PIECE ". She bought limbo to Earth and she brought A PIECE of limbo to Earth are two different things. Then you state that she has absolute power WITH A PIECE because you say so.

It is her place of power. I already posted the scan (which, apparently, according to you, you read).

What does that mean, to you?

I then posted multiple scans showing how she was able to block Dr Strange and the Avengers, was able to sense escapees, had every local obeying her commands, even time was skewy - what part of all of this tells you it was in any way shape or form weaker? You claim it, you prove it.

Edit: also, this quote from you:

That could mean she can access limbo from EARTH, it could mean there is some sliver of energy from the limbo dimension brought to Earth, or many other things. There is a reason the writer said, "PIECE".

Of course, had you READ the comics, you'd have known this.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

In ALL of the AvX scans, I showed Limbo being a physical place on Earth. That she brought there. YOU stated:

Yet, the Avengers and X-men and Rogue and Cap Marvel were able to simply PHYSICALLY walk/fly in and out, without needing portals. She had brought Limbo to Earth. To go back to my original analogy, it is the equivalent of Magneto bringing an aircraft carrier to the battlefield - if Character X walks into that aircraft carrier, have they been BFRd? NO! [/B]

Doesn't need to be the full Limbo dimension.

[/B]

See Page 6 of this thread. Now cropped for you:

'This is my place of power'.

Not my words. Not even my emphasis, lol.

I did. with Darkchylde. She wasn't in Limbo. Did you not read the comic? Uncanny X-men 21.

I ....never changed? Read through my posts, read through the actual comics, and come back again.

It is her place of power. I already posted the scan (which, apparently, according to you, you read).

What does that mean, to you?

I then posted multiple scans showing how she was able to block Dr Strange and the Avengers, was able to sense escapees, had every local obeying her commands, even time was skewy - what part of all of this tells you it was in any way shape or form weaker? You claim it, you prove it.

That has nothing to do with the original argument of her magically creating limbo on the battlefield in order to remove Kuurth's enchantments.

She brought a piece of limbo to a volcano.
She has to go to limbo in order to bring a piece to Earth.
She has to think about bringing a piece of limbo to the battlefield mid battle (propensity argument).
She hasn't been proven to have full power with a piece of limbo. If you disagree then kindly show what things she did within the volcano that she couldn't do outside of it. Because that statement could mean what I said earlier.

You would think teleporting would simply be an A to B process and wouldn't really require multiple paragraphs of explanation.

It really doesent matter unless anyone here can take on a full fledged Ohoenix

Originally posted by h1a8
She brought A PIECE of limbo to a volcano. I know this. You keep saying that she bought LIMBO to Earth when that is different than A PIECE of limbo. Because you say so? Good logic. That still doesn't prove that she has full power and can remove Kuurth's power. It could mean that she has weapons that can deal with the avengers there. Use the demons to trap them.

That has nothing to do with the original argument of her magically creating limbo on the battlefield in order to remove Kuurth's enchantments.

She brought a piece of limbo to a volcano.
She has to go to limbo in order to bring a piece to Earth.
She has to think about bringing a piece of limbo to the battlefield mid battle (propensity argument).
She hasn't been proven to have full power with a piece of limbo. If you disagree then kindly show what things she did within the volcano that she couldn't do outside of it. Because that statement could mean what I said earlier.

Prove that she has to go to Limbo to bring it to Earth.

I already did. She could sense escapees, anywhere she was in the world. Because it was her place of power, her dimension.

Prove that she did so to...have weapons/demons (who, by the by, called it Limbo and treated it as such!) to fight the Avengers.

All this stems down to a simple argument:

YOU claim that being in a piece of Limbo means she is weaker than being fully in Limbo. Prove this.

Simple.

She has already stated that it was her place of power.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1. Prove that she has to go to Limbo to bring it to Earth.

I already did. She could sense escapees, anywhere she was in the world. Because it was her place of power, her dimension.

2. Prove that she did so to...have weapons/demons (who, by the by, called it Limbo and treated it as such!) to fight the Avengers.

All this stems down to a simple argument:

3. [b]YOU claim that being in a piece of Limbo means she is weaker than being fully in Limbo. Prove this.

Simple.

4. She has already stated that it was her place of power. [/B]

1. The contrary is for you to prove since you are the one arguing it.
2. The contrary is for you to prove since you are the one arguing it.
3. The contrary is for you to prove since you are the one arguing it.
4. Which could mean what I stated. You must show her doing something that she normally couldn't to prove that she is significantly more powerful (which gives evidence to full power).

In summary, you have to show
1. Her bringing a piece of limbo to the battlefield without going to limbo.
2. Propensity to do this
3. Her having full power with just a piece of limbo.

Oh, if THAT Is how it is being played.....
1. I already have. Magik does not exist as a real person. Writer intent was to show it was her place of power. He then wrote her saying 'this is my place of power'.

2. Prove that Kuurth can resist BFR of the level of Magik (who is a better teleporter even without being amped by the PF).

3. Kuurth was depowered by Cyttorak, which was the only thing enabling him to avoid BFR (Colossus with Cyttorak's enchantment was able to BFR him).

Now, I can easily show that when the match starts, Magik will attempt BFR. Propensity.

I can also easily show her speed.

BEFORE we get into all this arguing over Limbo - as YOU have made the (implicit) claim that Kuurth can negate BFR on the scale of Magik (who has, without amps, sent her team mates through time and space etc), prove that he can. And THEN, prove that he can negate an AMPED Magik doing so.

As you are arguing this.

Edit: THEN, after you have proved it - prove that Kuurth is still as unstoppable without Cyttorak. Because he had withdrawn his powers at the end of the X-men fight - and what do forum rules say about versions?

It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

AND:

Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed.

Current version of Kuurth was only powered by the Serpent.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. The contrary is for you to prove since you are the one arguing it.
2. The contrary is for you to prove since you are the one arguing it.
3. The contrary is for you to prove since you are the one arguing it.
4. Which could mean what I stated. You must show her doing something that she normally couldn't to prove that she is significantly more powerful (which gives evidence to full power).

In summary, you have to show
1. Her bringing a piece of limbo to the battlefield without going to limbo.
2. Propensity to do this
3. Her having full power with just a piece of limbo.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, if THAT Is how it is being played.....
1. I already have. Magik does not exist as a real person. Writer intent was to show it was her place of power. He then wrote her saying 'this is my place of power'.

2. Prove that Kuurth can resist BFR of the level of Magik (who is a better teleporter even without being amped by the PF).

3. Kuurth was depowered by Cyttorak, which was the only thing enabling him to avoid BFR (Colossus with Cyttorak's enchantment was able to BFR him).

Now, I can easily show that when the match starts, Magik will attempt BFR. Propensity.

I can also easily show her speed.

[b]BEFORE we get into all this arguing over Limbo - as YOU have made the (implicit) claim that Kuurth can negate BFR on the scale of Magik (who has, without amps, sent her team mates through time and space etc), prove that he can. And THEN, prove that he can negate an AMPED Magik doing so.

As you are arguing this.

Edit: THEN, after you have proved it - prove that Kuurth is still as unstoppable without Cyttorak. Because he had withdrawn his powers at the end of the X-men fight - and what do forum rules say about versions?

AND:

Current version of Kuurth was only powered by the Serpent. [/B]

1. That doesn't prove she can bring limbo or a PIECE OF LIMBO to the battlefield without going to limbo.

2. Kuurth was shown being teleported. He returned through teleportation. Magik never shown the ability to teleport someone somewhere that prevents teleportation out of there.

3. What does this statement have to do with the thread? This fight is P5 vs full powered Worthy per intentions of the OP. You want to argue what the OP intended while knowing what he intended is trolling.

In conclusion, Magik never shown the ability to disallow a being from teleporting. Nor has she shown to know a place that prevents teleportation out of there. Therefore, no such notion as negate Bfr on the scale of Magik exists.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
You’re a f*cking idiot. How the hell you get away with this constant trolling and ignoring proof is unbelievable.

So you can't prove Kuurth can stop himself from being BFRd. Ok

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you can't prove Kuurth can stop himself from being BFRd. Ok