The Worthy vs Phoenix 5

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She's not traveling to Limbo when dealing with Kuurth.

She's bringing Limbo to her.

When she deals with the other Worthy, she's not traveling with them. DO YOI NOT UNDERSTAND THIS? Or are you deliberately trying to be obtuse?

Once more:. WHEN SENDING THE OTHER FOUR WORTHYS TO LIMBO, SHE DOES [B]NOT GO WITH THEM. [/B]

Limbo is another dimension. She enters that dimension then she disappears from the battlefield. What would her opponent see if she enters the limbo dimension while on the battlefield? Her having vanished completely. How would the fight continue if she decides to stay there and not come back?

I'm solely arguing about Kuurth. Never argued about the other worthy.
She has to enter limbo to even have a chance of removing his powers. The other worthy can take her out first if they plan ahead (attack her first). But I digress.

Originally posted by h1a8
Limbo is another dimension. She enters that dimension then she disappears from the battlefield. What would her opponent see if she enters the limbo dimension while on the battlefield? Her having vanished completely. How would the fight continue if she decides to stay there and not come back?

I'm solely arguing about Kuurth. Never argued about the other worthy.
She has to enter limbo to even have a chance of removing his powers. The other worthy can take her out first if they plan ahead (attack her first). But I digress.

She brings Limbo to Earth.

Your argument is like - well, if Superman flies up into the air, he has left the battlefield willingly! So he loses! Or, Batman is standing on his cape! The cape is not part of the battlefield! He loses!

But no. My argument is that the Magik brings Limbo to the battlefield, and the battlefield BECOMES Limbo (NOT that Limbo becomes the battlefield - which is where you are mistaken). A subtle difference. She is not popping out to another dimension. She is making the battlefield take on the aspects of her domain - just like she made Russia take on aspects of her domain in the scan.

As for the rest of your digression, the Phoenix 5 have telepathic communication at all times, and a master strategist in Cyclops who has already faced their most dangerous member and had Plan 13 work.

Again: she is NOT sending Kuurth and herself to Limbo. She is bringing Limbo to her. That is not 'leaving' the battlefield.

Let's say Magneto is fighting, say, Psylocke.

He grabs metal from somewhere, and throws it at her. She nimbly runs up the pieces of metal whilst they are in midair.

Has she BFR'd herself??

Let's go larger in scale. He brings an entire aircraft carrier. She runs up it as he flings it at her.

Has she left the battlefield? If Magneto then stands on this aircraft carrier in the middle of the battlefield, has he also left it?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She brings Limbo to Earth.

Your argument is like - well, if Superman flies up into the air, he has left the battlefield willingly! So he loses! Or, Batman is standing on his cape! The cape is not part of the battlefield! He loses!

But no. My argument is that the Magik brings Limbo to the battlefield, and the battlefield BECOMES Limbo (NOT that Limbo becomes the battlefield - which is where you are mistaken). A subtle difference. She is not popping out to another dimension. She is making the battlefield take on the aspects of her domain - just like she made Russia take on aspects of her domain in the scan.

As for the rest of your digression, the Phoenix 5 have telepathic communication at all times, and a master strategist in Cyclops who has already faced their most dangerous member and had Plan 13 work.

She stated she brought a PIECE of limbo back to Earth (bring a demon back or a sliver of limbo energy). Not then entire dimension. The battlefield consists of the ground and everything above and below until a certain distance away.

She's not making the battlefield appear to be limbo, she's actually disappearing and traveling to limbo. Every appearance at or before P5 incident shows this. No appearance at or before P5 shows her in limbo and at the same time still at the place she was before entering limbo.

The Earth is not the battlefield. If the battle starts in new York then a combatant teleporting to France is LEAVING THE BATTLEFIELD although it is still Earth.

She has to completely travel to limbo in order to gain the ability to remove magical connections.

What issue is that anyway?

Originally posted by h1a8
She stated she brought a PIECE of limbo back to Earth (bring a demon back or a sliver of limbo energy). Not then entire dimension. The battlefield consists of the ground and everything above and below until a certain distance away.

She's not making the battlefield appear to be limbo, she's actually disappearing and traveling to limbo. Every appearance at or before P5 incident shows this. No appearance at or before P5 shows her in limbo and at the same time still at the place she was before entering limbo.

The Earth is not the battlefield. If the battle starts in new York then a combatant teleporting to France is LEAVING THE BATTLEFIELD although it is still Earth.

She has to completely travel to limbo in order to gain the ability to remove magical connections.

What issue is that anyway?

She doesn't need the entirety of Limbo for her powers to become absolute, though.

Again, your argument is like taking a box, and having Batman stand on it - then arguing he has 'left' the battlefield. Nowhere in the rules state anything about a distance above or below, btw. It merely states that it would morph to accomodate them.

But as mentioned above: it is still always assumed that a character's base powers are active and working to their optimum efficiency in versus matches, therefore this default battlefield would essentially morph to accommodate the characters' powers when need be.

I mean, what next? As in my example, if Magneto brings an aircraft carrier to the battlefield, and someone enters it....have they been BFRd?

Even if she would leave I'm almost certain that if you do it for just a brief moment it doesn't count as BFR. Otherwise characters like The Spot would be totally pointless.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Even if she would leave I'm almost certain that if you do it for just a brief moment it doesn't count as BFR. Otherwise characters like The Spot would be totally pointless.

Nightcrawler ports into another dimension, then back into 616 all the time.

Edit: it also makes a mockery of fights with herald characters. Say Hulk faces off against Abomination. Or Superman faces off against Doomsday.

What if Superman and Doomsday are punching each other at the 0.5km edge....and Doomsday gets shifted 1cm over the line when he plants his foot to get a better punch on Superman...

Has Doomsday just 'left' the battlefield?? Flash never gets to IMP, because he never gets enough ground to accelerate, lol. Any fliers who take to the sky BFRs themselves. if MMH phases into the ground, he has BFRd himself - same with Terra, or Geo-Force etc.

Deadman and Zoom automatically forfeit the match as they aren't even in the same dimension/timeline.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1. She doesn't need the entirety of Limbo for her powers to become absolute, though.

2. Again, your argument is like taking a box, and having Batman stand on it - then arguing he has 'left' the battlefield. Nowhere in the rules state anything about a distance above or below, btw. It merely states that it would morph to accomodate them.

3. I mean, what next? As in my example, if Magneto brings an aircraft carrier to the battlefield, and someone enters it....have they been BFRd?

1. The burden is in you to prove that. Show her removing Cyttoraks magical connection (or equal or greater) without fully being in limbo.

2. But Batman would still be on the battlefield because he's physically above it. Magik literally wouldn't be there at all. She would be somewhere else entirely. We know by common sense there is a distance involved otherwise Superman can just go to the sun since it would be above the battlefield. The battlefield if 6 miles long (horizon to horizon). You cant go so far up as to be in space.

3. But Magik wouldn't be in a box that's on the battlefield. She literally wouldnt physically be there at all.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. The burden is in you to prove that. Show her removing Cyttoraks magical connection (or equal or greater) without fully being in limbo.

2. But Batman would still be on the battlefield because he's physically above it. Magik literally wouldn't be there at all. She would be somewhere else entirely. We know by common sense there is a distance involved otherwise Superman can just go to the sun since it would be above the battlefield. The battlefield if 6 miles long (horizon to horizon). You cant go so far up as to be in space.

3. But Magik wouldn't be in a box that's on the battlefield. She literally wouldnt physically be there at all.

It was Hell....ON EARTH.

This will be Limbo...ON THE BATTLEFIELD. What do you think was above her Limbo in Russia? That's right, Russian airspace.

What was below? Russia.

Around? Russia. The comic even gives an Earthly location.

But make no mistake, even with this piece, it was still her place of power.

Where do the rules state 6 miles long? Where does it state depth/height? If not, then you are just making things up.

Edit: think of it as a...box of Limbo, on the battlefield, if it helps you understand.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It was Hell....ON EARTH.

This will be Limbo...ON THE BATTLEFIELD. What do you think was above her Limbo in Russia? That's right, Russian airspace.

What was below? Russia.

Around? Russia. The comic even gives an Earthly location.

Where do the rules state 6 miles long? Where does it state depth/height? If not, then you are just making things up.

What are you talking about? Limbo is a dimension. You have to prove (not speculate)
1. She has absolute power without being fully inside of limbo
2. She is physically on the battlefield when she is in limbo. Not having vanished somewhere else where no one can see or touch her.

The scan you showed says she brought a PIECE of limbo to Earth.
That could mean she can access limbo from EARTH, it could mean there is some sliver of energy from the limbo dimension brought to Earth, or many other things. There is a reason the writer said, "PIECE".

You have to show her being fully in limbo WHILE still being in the same place on Earth before she went to limbo.

Because if you can't then you are just speculating.

Originally posted by h1a8
What are you talking about? Limbo is a dimension. You have to prove (not speculate)
1. She has absolute power without being fully inside of limbo
2. She is physically on the battlefield when she is in limbo. Not having vanished somewhere else where no one can see or touch her.

The scan you showed says she brought a PIECE of limbo to Earth.
That could mean she can access limbo from EARTH, it could mean there is some sliver of energy from the limbo dimension brought to Earth, or many other things. There is a reason the writer said, "PIECE".

You have to show her being fully in limbo WHILE still being in the same place on Earth before she went to limbo.

Because if you can't then you are just speculating.

...They were still in Russia. The volcano was in Russia, they went inside, and inside was Limbo. Outside? Russia.

YOU'RE the one speculating. I am merely going by the words and art. She brought a piece of Limbo to Earth, and her power was absolute there. Earth however still surrounded it.

By the by, here she is OUTSIDE of Limbo, vs the Juggernaut:

That's when she stops holding back, by the by. No Phoenix amp either.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
...They were still in Russia. The volcano was in Russia, they went inside, and inside was Limbo. Outside? Russia.

YOU'RE the one speculating. I am merely going by the words and art. She brought a piece of Limbo to Earth, and her power was absolute there. Earth however still surrounded it.

By the by, here she is OUTSIDE of Limbo, vs the Juggernaut:

That's when she stops holding back, by the by. No Phoenix amp either.

I don't see where Cain was still in Russia. The background doesn't show that.

What issue is that?

I think you're getting confused.

Read through the various posts properly, please.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I think you're getting confused.

Read through the various posts properly, please.

You never gave me issue number

I said posts, not issues......
You do this with every single debate we've had.

You don't actually know what you're arguing against, almost never post scans or issues of your own, but simply try to nitpick others with your 'logic".

Uncanny X-Men 21, X men Legacy 270. A simple Google would have found it.

How can I Google a scan?
I post issues or scans upon request. Why would I not?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I said posts, not issues......
You do this with every single debate we've had.

You don't actually know what you're arguing against, almost never post scans or issues of your own, but simply try to nitpick others with your 'logic".

Uncanny X-Men 21, X men Legacy 270. A simple Google would have found it.

Ok so you are using irrelevant comics now. These events happened after P5 story.
Magik has gotten upgrades over time.
Clearly you see she's different (visually).
Also she physically took out the ruby from Cain.

Feats before or when P5 saga are valid. No feats after receiving upgrades are valid.

So I'll summarize
1. You never showed her creating limbo on the battlefield in which she is still physically present. Hell, in the comic you posted a scan of still shows her going through portals to get to another location.

2. You never proved that she has ABSOLUTE power without fully being inside limbo. You stated it like it was a fact and it's not. I can state non facts all day long without proof. It's easy.

😂

Originally posted by h1a8
Ok so you are using irrelevant comics now. These events happened after P5 story.
Magik has gotten upgrades over time.
Clearly you see she's different (visually).
Also she physically took out the ruby from Cain.

Feats before or when P5 saga are valid. No feats after receiving upgrades are valid.

So I'll summarize
1. You never showed her creating limbo on the battlefield in which she is still physically present. Hell, in the comic you posted a scan of still shows her going through portals to get to another location.

2. You never proved that she has ABSOLUTE power without fully being inside limbo. You stated it like it was a fact and it's not. I can state non facts all day long without proof. It's easy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Even adamantium claws through his head did nothing:

That scene was shown again in a flashback shortly after the event concluded, iirc.

Though he was stabbing Cyke with his right hand, not his left, I think.

Guess we *could* argue he stabbed him twice and it did nothing. Or maybe it was just an error.